Baby on plane - where do you put them if not in a carseat?

[Tara]

Again this is not my opinion it is FAA regulations. I don't doubt you used one and I am sure you made the best decsion for your family based on the informaiton at the time. I am saying that I have personally seen the FA not allow a sling and also a BBA, October 04 and December 04. You may be hesitant to beleive me, that's ok, but I have seen it.

While boarding when DS was very little, sometimes one of us would be wearing him in the Baby Bjorn while the other installed the car seat. We've been told a number of times just while boarding -- not any where near seated -- that DS could not remain in the Bjorn.

I've also heard FA tell other parents the same thing.

 

[dtsaos]

the baby bjorn is a totally different thing than the baby b'air, which is not at all designed like a baby carrier. you can see it at www.onestepahead.com

 

[tjmw2727]

the baby bjorn is a totally different thing than the baby b'air, which is not at all designed like a baby carrier. you can see it at www.onestepahead.com

I realize that and the BBA is specificly addressed in the US carriers list of prohibited devices:

From Delta.com:
Delta does not permit the following types of car seats:
booster seats - even if they bear labels indicating they meet US, UN, or foreign government standards.
vest and harness-type child restraint devices. Do not confuse these with approved child safety seats having a harness-type closure for securing the child in the seat.

Here is the link:
http://www.delta.com/travel/special_services/services_for_children/infant_seating/index.jsp

From the link you provided it now clearly states that this device is not approved for takeoff, taxi and landing:

Baby B'Air
The safe way for baby to fly. You'd never travel by car with an unsecured baby on your lap, but it's standard procedure on airplanes! Yet sudden turbulence can cause you to lose your grip on your child. The answer: Baby B'Air, the only product that secures baby to your lap belt. Exceeds FAA standards, yet the quilted plush cotton vest feels like clothing. FAA-approved for the cruise portion of your flight, where turbulence most often occurs. (Not approved for taxi, takeoff, and landing.) Fits in your diaper bag for carrying ease. Machine washable. Choose Infant (head circum. 10"-161/2"; generally 6 weeks-6-8 mos.) or Toddler (head circum. 16"-191/2"; generally 6-8 mos.-2 yrs.). Order in advance to assure delivery before your trip. Imported. ""end quote

IMHO, it's one thing to advocate a CSR its another to advocate a device that is not allowed on us carriers. Contrary to the above carriers do have the right to refuse its use in flight.

TJ

 

[dtsaos]

Okay, if you read it carefully this is what it says:

DELTA, does not permit the following types of car seats:
Booster seats
Vest and harness type restraint devices.

However it goes on to clarify,
the restraint must meet one of the following requirements to be approved:
If manufactured outside of the US: has the approval of a foreign government or was manufactured under the standards of the UN.

if you read the description on the Baby B'air, it does say it that is imported, suggesting that it would pass Delta's requirements anyway.

And by the way, I was referring to Tara when i was explaining the difference between the baby b'air and the baby bjorn.

I think the reviews on the one step ahead website are very informative as well.

 

[dtsaos]

by the way, there's a number of on- line stores that sell the baby b'air now, not just one step ahead.

 

[tjmw2727]

Yes, I read it clearly and the BBA is a VEST OR HARNESS TYPE RESTRAINT DEVICE.

Ok - last attempt to clarify on the BBA ad at right start, the link you provided, it clearly states that the device is not approved for taxi, takeoff and landing.

Lastly as I mentioned earlier I have personaly witnessed a parent denied use of the Baby B'Air. I know what it is and I know the difference between it and a snugli or sling.

TJ

 

[dtsaos]

if you go to www.babybungalow.com and search for the baby b'air, they have a section of F.A.Q. about the product and how they are trying to get it approved for take off and landing and they even discuss how some FA's don't understand/know what it is and therefore may ask you not to use it.

And the info you give seems to be specifically from Delta's site ONLY-that's only one airline.

Ad I'll say once again that I know you know the diff between a baby carrier and the baby b'air.

 

[tjmw2727]

Actually, re read the thread as I gave information from AA initally and followed up with Delta. The verbage is the same at Southwest, Jet Blue and various others. These are the carriers I frequently fly so I have the information readily available. Since you are so interested in disproving me then you can go ahead and do a search to find a carrier that allows the BBA.

I stand by my information and what I have actually witnessed. I would hate to see a mom rely on this product for its safety and convenience only to be denied its use.

TJ

 

[all4fun]

To the OP, I haven't seen this site posted yet, but since it's such a hotly debated topic I thought I would post the link to the FAA's site regarding using a device such as the Baby B'air. Here's the link: FAA "tips for parents using a CSR" It says:

Reminder
Use an approved CRS when traveling to and from the airport by automobile. Booster seats and harness vests do not provide adequate protection in an aircraft, but they do enhance safety in automobiles. Many airlines do not allow the use of booster seats on their flights. These devices may be checked as baggage. In the United States, supplemental lap restraints, belly belts, are banned from use in automobiles and aircraft.

I would just hate for someone to spend money on something and then not be able to use it.

hth!

 

[dtsaos]

Okay to those of you so opossed to using the baby b'air, what do you think should happen when a mother wants/needs to breast feed her baby in flight? Don't you think it's safer for the baby to at least be attached to the mother's lap belt rather than be able to just fly out of her arms due to turbulance or worse? Perhaps the solution should be a combo of car seats and the baby b'air? And please don't say that the mom should pump out milk ahead of time because not everyone can do that and there's no way that a very young infant won't need to be held, nursed, feed, changed etc for a very long period of time. On a short flight you might be able to get away with it, but on longer ones, I don't see how. tjmw2727, I guess your babies are the exception and never act up or need to get out of their car seats for any reason. And if you look at the FAQ's on the baby bungalow site I gave, it says that most (90%) risk for the baby is during flight time due to turbulance, NOT during taxi, take off and landing.
And all4fun, it's amazing that so many web sites sell the baby b'air and so many people have used it successfully and not wasted their money isn't it? But it's nice of you to be so concerned about somebody else wasting their money.

 

[tjmw2727]

Okay to those of you so opossed to using the baby b'air, what do you think should happen when a mother wants/needs to breast feed her baby in flight? Don't you think it's safer for the baby to at least be attached to the mother's lap belt rather than be able to just fly out of her arms due to turbulance or worse? Perhaps the solution should be a combo of car seats and the baby b'air? And please don't say that the mom should pump out milk ahead of time because not everyone can do that and there's no way that a very young infant won't need to be held, nursed, feed, changed etc for a very long period of time. On a short flight you might be able to get away with it, but on longer ones, I don't see how. tjmw2727, I guess your babies are the exception and never act up or need to get out of their car seats for any reason. And if you look at the FAQ's on the baby bungalow site I gave, it says that most (90%) risk for the baby is during flight time due to turbulance, NOT during taxi, take off and landing.
And all4fun, it's amazing that so many web sites sell the baby b'air and so many people have used it successfully and not wasted their money isn't it? But it's nice of you to be so concerned about somebody else wasting their money.

NICE - I never mentioned my kids or their behavoir and I don't appreciate the slam at all.

As far as your continuous questions, it dosen't matter what I think!! But I do have the right to express my opinions. The FAA, AAP and most major carriers don't think it is safe to use BBAir. Most major airlines have gone so far as to not allow them at all and all don't allow them during take off or landing, simple as that.

It is not me that is opposed to the product but the airlines, FAA and American Academy of Pediatrics.

Obviously the websites and stores that sell this product are interested in promoting it and getting it approved but for now it is not approved.

TJ

 

[dtsaos]

Okay, sorry tjmw, someone on here said that their kids were fine in the car seats/used to it just like when they drive etc. I thought it was you.

And anyway, I was curious about your opinion about when a baby needs to be held, fed, etc and since you're so involved in this overall discussion I would think you would have an opinion about that.

 

[dtsaos]

sometimes common sense and being a good parent mean going against certain "regulations" in my opinion. (And I'm not saying anyone here is not a good parent)

 

[all4fun]

And all4fun, it's amazing that so many web sites sell the baby b'air and so many people have used it successfully and not wasted their money isn't it? But it's nice of you to be so concerned about somebody else wasting their money.

I'm a little uncertain why you are slamming me. All I did was provide information from FAA's website. And yes, I do hate to see people waste their money. The OP came here asking a question and I tried to answer it with the most factual response I could. I wasn't intending to feed the debate. I can't answer your question anyway. I mean that's kind of like asking why do stores still sell cigarettes, when we know they're bad for our health, isn't it?

 

[ducklite]

I saw a mother trying to use a Baby B'air two nights ago on a US Aisrways flight, and was told she couldn't during take off and landing. She tried to tell the FA that the manufacturer's info said it was approved, and the FA told her not during takeoff and landing. The senior FA ended up getting involved, and bottom line, the mother wasn't allowed to use it during take off and landing.

And to reiterate, during an emergency situation, the child goes on the floor. Period. The reason behind this is that there's far less chance of the child becoming a projectile and injuring itself or other passengers, as the seats and people's legs act as a barrier. Of course it didn't help the lap baby found in the overhead bin after the Sioux City crash...

Anne

 

[hokiefan33]

I know many people have very strong feelings on the car seat in an airplane question, but we have been flying from PA to Disney(and all over the usa) since my oldest was 10 months old(she is now 12) and I never used a car seat. We now fly with twins and both my husband and I hold one. I have never had any trouble holding a baby(maybe I'm lucky). And yes my 5 kids are the most precious thing in the world to me, but let's face it, if the plane goes down your carseat isn't going to help. We have hit some terrible turbulance and I feel better holding my babies. I travel as light as possible, but just relax you will be fine. Don't let anyone tell you that you should not take a vacation just because it isn't their way of taking one.

Amen. Absolutely right.

 

[PrincessasMommy]

O.k. as the original poster can I stop this now? Please!

I recently joined this forum for helpful advice when planning out Disney portion of our very first vacation and I am sorry I started a debate.

My intention was to figure out the safest way for my child to fly (OUTSIDE OF A CARSEAT) as I worded the question in the beginning as ....

"For those who have not purchased a seat for their babies....." (I was not looking for a bashing here)

I am aware that a child's safest place is the car seat, but to be quite honest, it is a 3 hour flight and I plan on feeding the baby as we ascend and descend for her ears anyhow, so is it worth is to pay for a seat we won't use? My agent also tells me that they will probably have empty seats available as we are travelling at odd times and that no device is allowed to strap baby to me - kills those Baby B'Air discussions.

For the record, with 3 children sleep is in high demand, but last night I researched for hours and hours, until 3 AM (I wake up at 6 - so if this isn't well articulated I apologize) but the statistics are highly in the lap baby's favour......3 babies have died (and I am sure their parents cry nights for not buying carseats - I know) but it has been over a 23 year period on international flights.

I thank you all for your input and contributions to this topic. I am now quite aware of FAA regulations, Europe's arguments to them (only in Europe do they allow baby strap attachments), Canada's policies, why carseats aren't mandatory to begin with, and many other statistics on air travel.

I believe arguments for both sides are valid and my husband and I will be very informed when we make our decision on how to travel with our child.





Note: The lap baby found in the overhead bin after the Sioux City crash was found alive and that was the last serious event in 1989.

 

[ryan840]

I don't know if anyone had mentioned this because I didn't have time to read all 4 pages, but I would be very uncomfortable with my child attached to me or the seatbelt. We are flying with him in May, and he will sit on our laps, unsecured by anything but our arms. My husband pointed out that anything strong enough to keep him in place would be strong enough to hurt him internally, and could even tear into him if the force was strong enough. I think that is why snugli, slings and other restraints are not allowed. The forces on a plane are very strong and those things could easily cause damage. If your arms break their hold, chances are your child will get a bump or bruise, or maybe something more serious, but probably not as serious as a restraint would cause. It's a tough decision that only you can make, but keep in mind that there is a reason why your child is allowed to sit on your lap on a plane- they have done many tests.

 

[tjmw2727]

Okay, sorry tjmw, someone on here said that their kids were fine in the car seats/used to it just like when they drive etc. I thought it was you.

And anyway, I was curious about your opinion about when a baby needs to be held, fed, etc and since you're so involved in this overall discussion I would think you would have an opinion about that.

I do have an opinion but no longer feel that you are truly interested in it - IMHO I think you just want to argue and I won't continue.

Perhaps if you would like to debate the issue the debate or community board would be a great place to start a new thread??

The OP has her answers and seems to have made a very informed decision, one that is right for her and her family. I respect that decsion and her right to make it. My only reason for posting this far was for imparting information.

To the OP ~ great follow up post, thanks for keeping us up to date.
I hope everyone has safe and happy travels and best wishes for the ill family member.

TJ

 

[dtsaos]

Princessasmommy

It certainly wasn't my intention or anyone else's on here I'm sure to add more stress to your life! I guess that a lot of people have very strong opinions on this subject and until the airlines make and inforce a specific decision, there always will be.

I respect anyone's decision to do what they feel is in their babies best interest. If I had to chose between a car seat or holding with out a restraint system, I would chose to hold my infant for the same reasons that rgribik pointed out. The baby b'air just made me feel a little better. Anyway it's a very personal decision and I wasn't trying to pressure you. Good luck and have a great trip.

TJ, i really don't feel like continuing this debate on the community boards, if you'd like to I'm sure you'll have lots of responses.