Auto Bailout Talks Collapse

[Tomader]

I'm shocked that people don't get how big this auto failure could be. I think people think it won't effect them????????? This will effect everyone, one way or another. Look at the stock market?? This is a sad, sad, day. My hope is that President Bush will come through for the auto industry. Let him go out doing something good. I have put alot of faith in this man for eight years I pray he comes through for the miliions of hard working families who are only asking to have a job.

 

[Galahad]

Oh, Honda, which is SUBSIDIZED by the JAPANESE GOVERNMENT!!!!

Talk about your double standards.

The Japanese government does not subsidize the employment of American workers in Marysville, OH, or Greensburg, IN. Honda is a publicly traded company. Anybody in any country can "own" it. It really isn't a double standard. Honda provides health insurance coverage to its American workers. What they do in Japan is really not relevant.

 

[Tigger Woods]

Once the American public realizes they've cut off their nose to spite their face (i.e., once the tsunami of job losses and bank failures they'll bring start coming home to roost, pulling community after community down in a sort of nuclear winter) they'll be just as angry at those senators for doing the WHOLE COUNTRY wrong.

We're going to face a 'nuclear winter' because the UAW wouldn't agree to a pay cut? Wow, those unions are powerful!

 

[Galahad]

who are only asking to have a job.

If that is all they are asking for then they should contact their union representatives and tell them to stop being so obstinately stupid.

 

[amyhughes]

Oh, Honda, which is SUBSIDIZED by the JAPANESE GOVERNMENT!!!!

Talk about your double standards.

My point with all of that is you simply won't see past the end of your own nose. You are constantly looking to place blame elsewhere.

 

[CarolA]

Actually, I currently work under union rules. And yes, there are good and bad things about the rules. Some stuff is just plain stupid.

But I also see that my working condiitions ARE MUCH BETTER than the conditions of those not under union rules, who are basically at work 12 to 15 hours a day week after week with no extra pay or time off.

Now I remember why I don't play on the CB board.

Every state in the nation and the federal goverment has these things called Labor Laws.

And basically you are accusing all non-union employers of violating them?

I thought it was only on the Transportation board that you did this type of irresponsible posting!

I will say this... Your posts have done nothing to convince me that (A) a bailout is the right move and that (B) subsidizing YOUR UNION job is good. Your posts actually seem to push me the other way.... "why should we bail out someone who wants to take no responsiblity and wants to blame others in what is basically a "prejuidical" way" Your views that ANY view but the one you have is WRONG and evil is prejuidice.

 

[CarolA]

My point with all of that is you simply won't see past the end of your own nose. You are constantly looking to place blame elsewhere.

That's pretty much her posting history! It's always someone else's fault!

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Actually, I currently work under union rules. And yes, there are good and bad things about the rules. Some stuff is just plain stupid.

But I also see that my working condiitions ARE MUCH BETTER than the conditions of those not under union rules, who are basically at work 12 to 15 hours a day week after week with no extra pay or time off.

It is illegal for workers in the US to work for more than 40 hours in a week without being paid time and a half for hours beyond that. The are exceptions for managers, professionals, and executives as well as some government jobs. If they are being asked to work 12 to 15 hours per day, they can file a claim to receive back wages.

 

[jodifla]

Now I remember why I don't play on the CB board.

Every state in the nation and the federal goverment has these things called Labor Laws.

And basically you are accusing all non-union employers of violating them?

I thought it was only on the Transportation board that you did this type of irresponsible posting!

I consider this a personal attack. Stop it please.

Also, there are no laws in this area governing salaried workers. You can work them as much and as long as you please.

 

[jodifla]

It is illegal for workers in the US to work for more than 40 hours in a week without being paid time and a half for hours beyond that. The are exceptions for managers, professionals, and executives as well as some government jobs. If they are being asked to work 12 to 15 hours per day, they can file a claim to receive back wages.

All these workers are considered salaried/professional, and the rules do not apply to them.

 

[mickeysgal]

I'm shocked that people don't get how big this auto failure could be. I think people think it won't effect them????????? This will effect everyone, one way or another. Look at the stock market?? This is a sad, sad, day. My hope is that President Bush will come through for the auto industry. Let him go out doing something good. I have put alot of faith in this man for eight years I pray he comes through for the miliions of hard working families who are only asking to have a job.

We get it. A lot of us however, feel that a restructure under bankruptcy is a better answer than a bailout.

 

[Galahad]

Also, there are no laws in this area governing salaried workers. You can work them as much and as long as you please.

As it should be. Why in the world would a salaried employee want to be limited by being in a union?

I am salaried. I work 60 hours a week on a regular basis without extra pay. I am not abused.

 

[ntsammy5]

I am salaried. I work 60 hours a week on a regular basis without extra pay. I am not abused.

Yup, me too.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me.

The only reason why Congress got away with the banking bailout is because too many of us were caught off-guard to argue against it. If the American People had a chance to digest what Congress was proposing at the time we would have had as much to say about it then as we are saying now and it never would have gone through. But now that the banking deal is done, and Americans are still losing jobs, many of us are bitter. How much you wanna bet every legislator who signed off on that mess will be looking for a new job as soon as their terms run out? Remember, we did it with Hilliary's health care scheme, it will happen again. The American voter does not like to be trifled with nor treated like an ignorant fool.

These companies do not need out money to stay afloat, but the fat cats needed our money to stay in power. There is a big difference.

 

[jodifla]

Now I remember why I don't play on the CB board.

Every state in the nation and the federal goverment has these things called Labor Laws.

And basically you are accusing all non-union employers of violating them?

I thought it was only on the Transportation board that you did this type of irresponsible posting!

I will say this... Your posts have done nothing to convince me that (A) a bailout is the right move and that (B) subsidizing YOUR UNION job is good. Your posts actually seem to push me the other way.... "why should we bail out someone who wants to take no responsiblity and wants to blame others in what is basically a "prejuidical" way" Your views that ANY view but the one you have is WRONG and evil is prejuidice.

I don't have a union job. My job falls under union rules, however. I agree as I have said that many union rules are just dumb. However, i see the union workers work a regular shift, and I see the professional/managers practically collapsing from their endless shifts.

But as I spend more and more time in Michigan, I see what devastation it would cause here for the Big 3 to go under. And reading enough reports, I have some idea how that devastation would spread throughout the country...maybe even to your neck of the woods.

 

[PatsMom]

As it should be. Why in the world would a salaried employee want to be limited by being in a union?

I am salaried. I work 60 hours a week on a regular basis without extra pay. I am not abused.

Me too. And although I frequently work 60 hours a week, every so often, I only work 30. I am still paid my full salary. That is how it works for salaried, exempt employees. I am paid well in exchange for the hours I put in.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Or the evil evil Republicans who HATE THE AMERICAN WORKING CLASS will just do all their dirty work to bust up the unions, while the rest of the America sits idly by, thinking it won't affect them.

I don't think I can put into words how much I detest this sort of thinking. I have known a great many Democrats and Republicans. Not one of them was evil or hate any "class" in America. They had very different views one what would make America better.

Some people think that we need to take more money from successful business and people and lend or give it to those more in need. Others think that doing so will hurt the successful businesses and people and make us less well off overall. Both sides want people to be better off. Their motives are both good. They differ in what they think will work.

You may think that I am evil for not supporting the auto bailout. I and almost all of the majority of Americans that oppose it are not. We differ with you not in our concern for working class people but in what we think will help them the most.

Many countries in modern times have gone from poor to weathly (Singapore, Ireland, and Hong Kong are a couple of examples). They have done it by lowering taxes and decreasing regulations. Other countries have taken significant strides to protect their working class and have seen their economies decline relative to other nations (Germany, France, and pre-Thatcher England are examples). I'm not going to claim that less government spending and fewer regulations are always better. I do believe, however, that countries with freer economies will help their citizens (including the poor) better than heavily regulated economies. Despite believing this, I don't think that people with differing opinions are evil nor are their intentions.

I request that you quit the extremist, partisan name calling of your opponents. Leave that trash for Rush, Nader, et al. I'm not saying that your doing so is evil, but I don't think it is helping you either.

 

[jodifla]

My point with all of that is you simply won't see past the end of your own nose. You are constantly looking to place blame elsewhere.

I see plenty past my own nose. What I gather is that many people think, "well, to heck with them, it won't affect me." Maybe you'll be lucky and be right. But maybe, according to many economists, the whole country's economy is about to spiral downward.

Check the stock market today? It's not about me.

And many posters keep (not sure about you) keep insisting that the Big 3 build junk that no one wants to buy, and that's the problem.

The problem is actually the CREDIT MARKET, cause by the FINANCIAL mess. GM sells more vehicles most quarters than anybody in the world, so somebody is buying their automobiles.

And now, we see worldwide countries stepping in to subsidize their auto industries, because they deem it necessary for their survival.

But American senators would rather play politics than get to a decent solution.

 

[Tomader]

We get it. A lot of us however, feel that a restructure under bankruptcy is a better answer than a bailout.

Unless you work for the auto industry I guess you won't get it, yet. My family and millions of others survive because of the auto industry. This is how we pay for our house, food, the little things in life. If they go down so do we and possible a state. So giving the auto industry a loan is a much better option than bankruptcy. If you or someone close to you was in the industry you would get it!

 

[ScottJ]

I do not work for a union and my political beliefs are moderate leaning conservative but I live in the Detroit area.

That being said, I support the LOAN to the BIG 3.

I support the loans because I believe what it will do to this Country if the Big 3 fall. I believe this because of many reasons. Representatives from plastic and steel industries have said their industries would fail without GM. The European Union fear that if Adam Opel (GM) fails, their economy would be devastated. Australia is ready to provide $4 billion to their industry in fear if Holden (GM) were to collapse, it would devastate them. Representatives from Toyota & Honda have made statements stating if GM failed US production of vehicles could end due to supplier failure.

So, I fear another Great Depression. It would be worse than in the 30s because the Americans of today have no idea how to cope the way Americans of the 30s did.

I also support a bailout not only because of fear but because of injustices of our Government. The VAT (value added tax) system is broken & as taxpayers we give subsidize foreign car companies. Our Country looks the other way when Japan, South Korea & China artificially deflate their monetary exchange to give their companies added benefits when exporting goods.

VAT - as value is added in the manufacturing process tax is added. VAT countries have an agreement in regards to how this system works. When US companies export a car, the US refunds these taxes back to our companies. When they arrive in (let's say Germany) the VAT are added back. So a $20,000 Fusion would be about $25,000. This is how it is suppose to work HOWEVER, when a Passat goes through this process, the US government does not add back the VAT into the Passat making a $20,000 Passat roughly $17,000 basically giving a $3,000 subsidy.

Exchange Rate - Asian countries are notorious for manipulating their exchange rates. This is shown on Toyota, Honda & other Asian car companies financial statements. By exchange rate alone, Toyota can make up to $11,000 on a car depending where the yen is deflated compared to the Dollar.

And although it's been mentioned by auto execs, they face companies back or owned by their home countries. How can our industry compete against another country let alone another company?

Also, California runs the auto industry. It sets all EPA standards above & beyond government standards. California trades emissions for millage. So, an Adam Opel cannot be sold in this country. It tops the world in millage but it doesn't meet California emissions standards. They trade millage in favor of emissions. So GM builds one of the worlds highest MPG cars but 1 state dictates the industry.

Also, the US Treasury just said it stands to prevent US auto industry failure.