Attendance Rewards

[princessesrule4]

I have issues with the award programs for attendance. It encourages people to send their kids to school sick, which helps spread it around to others. Not to mention, even if you're tardy one day - even if you're 1/2 late to school because of a doctors appointment - you're knocked out of the running. It's a program with really unreasonable expectations.

I agree! DH and I call this the "Go to school sick " award!

My goodness, what does the Valedictorian/ person with the highest point average get? A trip or car for perfect attendance is absolutely ridiculous! At our school, they give out a certificate at an awards assembly for the whole school.

 

[Cool-Beans]

If it is a private school, I think it is great. Give the kids their rewards.

If it is a public school, they should not be wasting tax-payer money on cars and trips for kids.

At one of DS's award ceremonies, they gave out perfect attendance awards to two kids who hadn't missed a single day in four years of high school...neither one attended the ceremony!

 

[DizBelle]

I would be really PO'ed if my tax dollars went to buy a car for some kid.

 

[RitaZ.]

The same high school gave away a car to a senior w/the best attendance last year.

A car just for showing up at school? Isn't that one of the responsibilities of the student? Why should it be rewarded with extravagant gifts?

It irks me how some schools have lowered their expectations/standards for students! Just keep feeding the entitlement mentality!

 

[mickaholic4077]

Wow, those are pretty big rewards. When I graduated from high school I had three consecutive years of perfect attendance and I got cash, I think $30 and a certificate. This wasn't something that was advertised though and it was part of the senior award night. I think rewards for good attendance should be given but I don't think they should be incentives.

That reminds me that at my high school senior awards night,the person awarded the medal for perfect attendance wasn't at the ceremony!

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Wow, those are pretty big rewards. When I graduated from high school I had three consecutive years of perfect attendance and I got cash, I think $30 and a certificate. This wasn't something that was advertised though and it was part of the senior award night. I think rewards for good attendance should be given but I don't think they should be incentives.

Lucky you. When I graduated high school I had perfect attendance for 3 straight years. All I got was a certificate. It was enough

 

[frndofpooh]

The principal at DS's elementary school stopped the perfect attendance program mid year because so many kids were coming to school sick. The nurse told me that in the winter, kids would come to school for attendance and then she would have a flood of kids in her office between 9 and 10 a.m. that were obviously ill but had come to school for their attendance mark! When the principal stopped it there was an uproar!

In its place, she instituted an "no tardies" award that kids can get if they are never tardy for the beginning of school. Excused absences, like for doctor's appointments, don't count. The prize is a certificate, not a trip to Florida !

 

[mickeyboat]

I though tmore about this issue while I was at lunch, and have a few more comments.

First, I am against awards for perfect attendance, because they are virtually unattainable, and encourage sick kids to go to school.

I am starting to really get into the idea of the tickets for showing up at school. Assuming the school district is not funding the prize, I think it is a great idea.

Kids are not really being rewarded for just showing up at school. They are receiving positive reinforcement of a value the school and presumably their parents are trying to teach them - that they need to go to school. One of the most effective ways to teach a behavior to a child is by positive reinforcement / rewards. (Think Pavlov's dogs). Many times positive reinforcement works much better than punishment. As parents we do this with our children all the time - with praise, affection, attention, and possibly even treats of other material rewards - for good behavior. Children initially may perform the good behavior simply for the reward, but if it happens enough times, the behavior becomes part of the child's make-up and personality.

Yes, the prize being given seems obscene. But the prize really is only a very remote possibility of winning the prize.

Denae

 

[Hedy]

Attendence awards just encourage kids to go to school sick.

 

[Christine]

I though tmore about this issue while I was at lunch, and have a few more comments.

First, I am against awards for perfect attendance, because they are virtually unattainable, and encourage sick kids to go to school.

I am starting to really get into the idea of the tickets for showing up at school. Assuming the school district is not funding the prize, I think it is a great idea.

Kids are not really being rewarded for just showing up at school. They are receiving positive reinforcement of a value the school and presumably their parents are trying to teach them - that they need to go to school. One of the most effective ways to teach a behavior to a child is by positive reinforcement / rewards. (Think Pavlov's dogs). Many times positive reinforcement works much better than punishment. As parents we do this with our children all the time - with praise, affection, attention, and possibly even treats of other material rewards - for good behavior. Children initially may perform the good behavior simply for the reward, but if it happens enough times, the behavior becomes part of the child's make-up and personality.

Yes, the prize being given seems obscene. But the prize really is only a very remote possibility of winning the prize.

Denae

Thank you Denae! As I've been reading this thread, I keep banging my head on my computer. This "program" is not about "PERFECT ATTENDANCE" at all. We already know this is a hot button issue on the DIS. Every student has a chance to win this prize, albeit, your chances improve the more your show up to school. But, honestly, the kid who was sick 20 times in one year could end up with the prize.

 

[TheGoofster]

My school did pretty much the opposite - non-attendance "rewards". As in, if you miss so many classes (without proper excuses, like signed doctor notes) then you got a reward - You got to take the grade over again.

I actually had three or four semesters (a semester was half the school year basically) when I had perfect attendance. I think the only thing I got from the school was a smiley face. My mom gave me some kind of reward though.

 

[va32h]

I think this is a horrible, horrible idea.

When you give someone an incentive (aka a bribe) you are devalue whatever it is you are bribing them to do.

I urge everyone to read a wonderful book called "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn. Kohn is a behavioral scientist, and in study after study, he and other scientists found that if people (adults and children) were bribed to do a task - virtually any task - they enjoyed that task far less than the group of people who were not offered any kind of incentive. Not only that, but they performed the task poorly.

If your boss says to you "I will pay you an extra $500 to do a certain task for me after work today." do you think it will be a fun task? Or do you think, "if he is offering me $500 to do it, it must be really horrible. "

If we tell children that we will give them prizes for just showing up to school, we are telling them that school is not worth showing up for on its own merits.

The reward for attending school is an education. It is its own reward.

Children who are bribed to behave, bribed to attend school and bribed to study will never learn what a real accomplishment is. They will not have any intrinsic motivation - doing a good job for the sake of doing a good job.

 

[mickeyboat]

I think this is a horrible, horrible idea.

When you give someone an incentive (aka a bribe) you are devalue whatever it is you are bribing them to do.

I urge everyone to read a wonderful book called "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn. Kohn is a behavioral scientist, and in study after study, he and other scientists found that if people (adults and children) were bribed to do a task - virtually any task - they enjoyed that task far less than the group of people who were not offered any kind of incentive. Not only that, but they performed the task poorly.

If your boss says to you "I will pay you an extra $500 to do a certain task for me after work today." do you think it will be a fun task? Or do you think, "if he is offering me $500 to do it, it must be really horrible. "

If we tell children that we will give them prizes for just showing up to school, we are telling them that school is not worth showing up for on its own merits.

The reward for attending school is an education. It is its own reward.

Children who are bribed to behave, bribed to attend school and bribed to study will never learn what a real accomplishment is. They will not have any intrinsic motivation - doing a good job for the sake of doing a good job.

Point taken.

But if the kids are not at school, they are not getting an education. Maybe administrators at that school are willing to give up the benefit the kids understanding that their education is a reward, for the benefit that the child is actually learning something, having a hot lunch, and getting a little physical exercise.

There are plenty of other opportunities in life where children can learn intrinsit motivation, and what a real accomplishment is.

Denae

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I guess my thing is --- all these incentives aren't meant to discourage kids from staying home for the 2 or 3 days it takes for them to get over strep throat. It is meant to get kids who only bother to come to school 3 days a week as it is to show up more often.

education is expensive. Most communities are already paying thousands of dollars per student to provide a kid with the opportunity to get an education. Getting them to "show up" for it really shouldn't be that much of an obstacle. I that if they are only in the building to earn their ticket to win a car, I'm kind of skeptical that they're really paying all that much attention in English Class regardless. More likely, they are the kid sleeping in the back row with their iPOD headphones on.

I think that if the only way to get that kid to attend school is the promise of winning a new car. Fine. Let him/her grow up stupid and let's spend that money on some kid that wants to learn.

Sorry, I'm just feeling a little cynical today.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I think you've posted the root of the problem! If the parents don't expect their kids to go to school what good will it do these same kid's when they are expected to show up for work? The home life is the root of the problem, I would suggest that be corrected first.

I agree. I don't get paid to show up, I get paid to work. It's the same mentality that gives out trophies to every kid in the soccer program-just for showing up. I'm all for awards for grades, effort, sports, music, art or any other "achievement". Showing up is not achievement.

"When everyone's special, nobody is" The Incredibles

 

[mickeyboat]

I guess my thing is --- all these incentives aren't meant to discourage kids from staying home for the 2 or 3 days it takes for them to get over strep throat. It is meant to get kids who only bother to come to school 3 days a week as it is to show up more often.

education is expensive. Most communities are already paying thousands of dollars per student to provide a kid with the opportunity to get an education. Getting them to "show up" for it really shouldn't be that much of an obstacle. I that if they are only in the building to earn their ticket to win a car, I'm kind of skeptical that they're really paying all that much attention in English Class regardless. More likely, they are the kid sleeping in the back row with their iPOD headphones on.

I think that if the only way to get that kid to attend school is the promise of winning a new car. Fine. Let him/her grow up stupid and let's spend that money on some kid that wants to learn.

Sorry, I'm just feeling a little cynical today.

There is truth to what you are saying, but it really isn't an option for schools nowadays.

Your post brings the NCLB into play, too. Schools get funded partly by how many days children attend. Maybe this whole thing isn't to benefit the children's attitude toward school, but to get more $$.

Denae

 

[va32h]

Point taken.

But if the kids are not at school, they are not getting an education. Maybe administrators at that school are willing to give up the benefit the kids understanding that their education is a reward, for the benefit that the child is actually learning something, having a hot lunch, and getting a little physical exercise.

There are plenty of other opportunities in life where children can learn intrinsit motivation, and what a real accomplishment is.
Denae

I have to disagree with you on that one, Denae. School is the primary learning ground for so many of life's lessons, not just the ABC's. And school is a child's work, it's what they do for most of their waking hours.

I think it is unrealistic at best to expect an 18 year old who has been bribed and rewarded for every little task to suddenly understand that everything is different now and real accomplishment is quite the opposite of everything he has done for the last 12 years.

You can bribe the children to go to school - you can't motivate them to care. The only qualification for this incentive is that you show up. Be a warm body in a seat. I am not sure standards can get much lower than that. The problem with this reward system is that it sends the same message to motivated students that it sends to the unmotivated ones. School sucks, we have to beg and bribe you to be here.

The same behavioral studies I mentioned in my first post also show that if you reward people for doing a task they have previously been doing for no reward, their performance declines and continues to decline.

And let's not forget - school's get funding based on their attendance records. In our district, my kids' warm bodies are worth $50 per day for their school. If anything, that is our district's motivation for getting kids to attend class. So they get their reward.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Maybe this whole thing isn't to benefit the children's attitude toward school, but to get more $$.

well that's a pretty poor justification for what is really a stupid action.

Really, when it gets to the point where we have to bribe our children with new cars just to get them to "show up, sit in a chair, and breathe"

then our society has seriously gotten to the point of far bigger problems than No Child Left Behind.

 

[mickeyboat]

I have to disagree with you on that one, Denae. School is the primary learning ground for so many of life's lessons, not just the ABC's. And school is a child's work, it's what they do for most of their waking hours.

I think it is unrealistic at best to expect an 18 year old who has been bribed and rewarded for every little task to suddenly understand that everything is different now and real accomplishment is quite the opposite of everything he has done for the last 12 years.

You can bribe the children to go to school - you can't motivate them to care. The only qualification for this incentive is that you show up. Be a warm body in a seat. I am not sure standards can get much lower than that. The problem with this reward system is that it sends the same message to motivated students that it sends to the unmotivated ones. School sucks, we have to beg and bribe you to be here.

The same behavioral studies I mentioned in my first post also show that if you reward people for doing a task they have previously been doing for no reward, their performance declines and continues to decline.

And let's not forget - school's get funding based on their attendance records. In our district, my kids' warm bodies are worth $50 per day for their school. If anything, that is our district's motivation for getting kids to attend class. So they get their reward.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, then.

I don't see the school rewarding children for every little good behavior. It's the overuse of a reward system which produces the results you describe. You might argue that this type of system is an overuse of rewards. I don't see it that way since the reward is just a remote chance to win a trip.

I don't see that children who are being taught the instrinsic value of their education at home are going to suddenly stop understanding it because there is a bonus for attending. Those families in those types of schools (and probably the types of schools our children attend) do not need reward programs.

Yes, kids learn many things besides their ABC's at school, but as a parent I don't rely on the school to teach my children something as important as the value of their educations.

But a system like this could really bring about great results in a school district with very low attendance, with children whose parents have never learned the value of an education because no one they know ever got one. You can't teach anything to a child who is not at school, so getting them there is the first step.

Now, if funding is really the motivating factor, then shame on them!

Denae

PS I have really enjoyed this discussion!

 

[va32h]

Denae, I think you would really enjoy the book I recommended earlier. It discusses not only school rewards but incentives in the workplace and in corporate-government relations...it's just a really interesting book.