Attendance at Universal declines becasue of WDW's recent marketing

[YoHo]

But like magic, art is in the eye of the beholder, too. You may think there's no art anymore, but many others feel there is.

No, Art really isn't in the eye of the beholder. If I spend my life painting, but nobody likes any of my work, am I not an artist?


There is the act of Art and the appreciation of Art. Just because I have no use for much modern art doesn't mean that artistic effort wasn't put into it.

More to the point, Art is a process. The Art, the magic is in how Disney did things, building dinorama, because a powerpoint said that people said there wasn't enough to do is not art, designing an entire themepark using the artisitc methods of filmmaking to draw people in and create story is very very very much art and magic.



And I guess that's where the breakdown is, If you don't understand what makes something art, or artistic, then you I suppose think all art is subjective.

 

[pedro2112]

So if we gathered all 14 million people in an empty field, charged then $62 per head to stand there, and all scream “DISNEY!” we’d all be as happy?

That is a strawman argument. The poster meant that magic is when the excitement that people feel when experiencing the sights, sounds, feels of disney. As the poster stated,"But simply take a look at the faces of many folks as they enter the MK; see the smiles of children on Dumbo; see the grins of amazement from those leaving M:S (the ones who aren't puking, that is ) and that's where the magic is." To suggest that this reaction by the guests is similar to forcing people to stand in a field, charge them $62.00 and tell them to scream disney, is silly.

I am not suggesting I concur with this definition of "magic," but your analogy was way off the mark.

 

[dbm20th]

No, Art really isn't in the eye of the beholder. If I spend my life painting, but nobody likes any of my work, am I not an artist?


There is the act of Art and the appreciation of Art. Just because I have no use for much modern art doesn't mean that artistic effort wasn't put into it.

More to the point, Art is a process. The Art, the magic is in how Disney did things, building dinorama, because a powerpoint said that people said there wasn't enough to do is not art, designing an entire themepark using the artisitc methods of filmmaking to draw people in and create story is very very very much art and magic.

And I guess that's where the breakdown is, If you don't understand what makes something art, or artistic, then you I suppose think all art is subjective.

Here we go your opinions as fact again. Man YoHo, at least I admit to it.

Art has many definitions, and yours is by no means the absolute or even entirely accurate. But rather than engaging you in a debate about the meaning of art, the post you take to task was, at least as I read it, referring to the type of art that exists in WDW and not whatever you do with a paint brush in your spare time. He was being casual with the word. What you call art, others may not. This is a debate that has gone on for ages. And a simple wave of your musket wielding hand does not change that.

MJMcBride was taking to task the fact that you have definded things they have done in WDW as not containing "Art". That's ridiculous! The Tree of Life contains more incredible art then anything produced before it anywhere in any Disney park. Of course, that's my opinion. I can name others, but it wouldn't change your opinion...aaaa...I mean facts...anyway

 

[peter11435]

There is no art in what Disney builds anymore.

You forgot to add the phrase "In my opinon."

 

[YoHo]

No, Art is a process, Disney no longer uses that process, Disney is not art. It's not an opinion, it is fact.

If a new Attraction were to be built using the methods that created Disneyland and world, then it would again be art. That is not what happens now, therefore no art.


See how that works, take some facts (what is art, how Did Disney design and build their parks back then, how do they do it now) draw conclusion. simple.

 

[Sarangel]

If a new Attraction were to be built using the methods that created Disneyland and world, then it would again be art. That is not what happens now, therefore no art.

That would be (by all accounts, anyway) Expedetion:Everest, wouldn't it? And, as much as I hate to admit it, that was started in the last years of Eisner's tenure.

I think the point is that overall Eisner's team worked off of powepoint presentations and surveys while Walt's team worked from vision and the desire to tell a story.

Sarangel

 

[dbm20th]

That would be (by all accounts, anyway) Expedetion:Everest, wouldn't it?

Sorry Sarangel, but YoHo says it is not...so therefore, it is not.

 

[YoHo]

I may have a bit of a blind spot on Expedition: Everest, because it is my OPINION that Joe Rhode is a useless twit.

 

[dbm20th]

No, Art is a process, Disney no longer uses that process, Disney is not art. It's not an opinion, it is fact.

If a new Attraction were to be built using the methods that created Disneyland and world, then it would again be art. That is not what happens now, therefore no art.


See how that works, take some facts (what is art, how Did Disney design and build their parks back then, how do they do it now) draw conclusion. simple.

Art is not only a process, this is a fact. Disney creates art, always have, still do, whether you like the art or not. Creative people are still creating. That is fact.

See how easy, take facts, draw conclusions, simple (...not so simple when people throw in there opinions as facts.)

 

[YoHo]

Sorry Sarangel, but YoHo says it is not...so therefore, it is not.

Have I made a comment on Expedition: Everest?

I can't speak to Sara's statement directly though I can say that it also had it's budget cut and I think people are making it out to be more then it really is as far as it's "e-ticketness." But that's a whole other conversation and it's a discussion on definitions that I don't want to get into here and now.

Perhaps AV has some specific knowledge about the process of E: E.

 

[peter11435]

No, Art is a process, Disney no longer uses that process, Disney is not art. It's not an opinion, it is fact.

Wrong Yoho. That is an opinion not a fact.

I believe that Expedtion Everest, Animal Kingdom Lodge, The Tree of Life, and many other recent Disney developments are works of art. That alone makes your opinion an opinion and not a fact. And I am sure there are more people who would agree with me than who would agree with you.

 

[DisneyKidds]

That would be (by all accounts, anyway) Expedetion:Everest, wouldn't it? And, as much as I hate to admit it, that was started in the last years of Eisner's tenure.

I think the point is that overall Eisner's team worked off of powepoint presentations and surveys while Walt's team worked from vision and the desire to tell a story.

Sarangel

Thanks, Sara, I was just going to insist that Yoho make this very clarification. You know him, he get a little carried away sometimes . such as with this statement:

There is no art in what Disney builds anymore.

With my retort being E:E.

He may feel, and he may be right, that Disney has ceased to allow artistic influences to guide the overall design approach to parks and attractions, but that must be separated from the piece parts. There are a lot of extremely talented artisans who spent countless hours making the base of E:E a recreation of a Himlayan village. Is there no art in that? As someone once said........

If I spend my life painting, but nobody likes any of my work, am I not an artist?

Just because someone might not like the story that E:E tells, it doesn't mean that a lot of art is present in what is presented.

However, this bickering over art, not art, etc. clouds the salient point, that Disney used to strive first to make great story and show, to allow the art of the storytelling to guide the design. While there is still a lot of artistic endeavour to be appreciated at WDW, the guiding principles have changed, and so has the overall flavor of the offerings, offering that are still pretty darn good, but pale in comparison to what was produced when story and art were valued more than dollars and cents.

 

[dbm20th]

Wrong Yoho. That is an opinion not a fact.

I believe that Expedtion Everest, Animal Kingdom Lodge, The Tree of Life, and many other recent Disney developments are works of art. That alone makes your opinion an opinion and not a fact. And I am sure there are more people who would agree with me than who would agree with you.

Agreed.

 

[peter11435]

Have I made a comment on Expedition: Everest?

You didn't mention EE specifically. However with statements like this:

No, Art is a process, Disney no longer uses that process, Disney is not art. It's not an opinion, it is fact.

If a new Attraction were to be built using the methods that created Disneyland and world, then it would again be art. That is not what happens now, therefore no art.

You are essentially talking about EE just as much as anything else.

 

[YoHo]

Art is not only a process, this is a fact. Disney creates art, always have, still do, whether you like the art or not. Creative people are still creating. That is fact.

See how easy, take facts, draw conclusions, simple (...not so simple when people throw in there opinions as facts.)

Where is your evidence to back up this assertion.

TDC fired almost all of imagineering, They then switched control for park expansion and attraction decisions from WDI to Park managment. So there are very few if any artists involved at all.

So again, where's your evidence to back up your supposed facts?

 

[YoHo]

Wrong Yoho. That is an opinion not a fact.

I believe that Expedtion Everest, Animal Kingdom Lodge, The Tree of Life, and many other recent Disney developments are works of art. That alone makes your opinion an opinion and not a fact. And I am sure there are more people who would agree with me than who would agree with you.

Define: Art

# a superior skill that you can learn by study and practice and observation; "the art of conversation"; "it's quite an art"
An occupation requiring knowledge or skill. The conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects.

Sorry, not opinion.

 

[YoHo]

There are a lot of extremely talented artisans who spent countless hours making the base of E:E a recreation of a Himlayan village.

I find this extremely unlikely. There were a few, a handful. Not a lot. A heck of a lot of them were fired!

 

[YoHo]

You didn't mention EE specifically. However with statements like this:



You are essentially talking about EE just as much as anything else.

I'm so glad that you're here to tell me what I'm talking about. I'd be lost without you.

 

[peter11435]

Sorry Yoho. It IS still an opinion.

 

[peter11435]

I took the liberty of underlining all those that apply to Disney.

Also notice that no where does it use the term 'process.'

art (ärt)
n.

1. Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.

2. aThe conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.
b.The study of these activities.
c.The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group.
3.High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.
4.A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature.
5.A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts.