Atheist question.

[metalis4ever]

This is part of the "should we christen the girls?" conversation my husband and I had. He was raised Catholic and believes in God, but not religion. I am an atheist. We were under pressure from his family to have our daughters christened. My family couldn't have cared less, but his mother was having fits. We decided, out of respect for Catholics who actually take their faiths seriously, that it would be very hypocritical of us to do it just to please his mother. We would be making promises that we had no intention of keeping. It would have been a poor decision for us. If our daughters decide to pursue some form of spirituality as they get older, we will respect their decisions.

EXACTLY!!! If and when my DW and I have children we will instill right and wrong without Religion or God. However, if they were to come to me at any age and ask about "God" I would give them the resources necessary to learn and decide for themselves..That is the main difference between teaching your children how to question, learn and belive, rather than WHAT.

I appluad your strength in the face of family pressure I felt similar pressure regarding our wedding my DW and I are both Atheists but we had a Medival wedding where my DW was Maid Marain and I was Robin Hood and we had a Wiccan Hand Fasting Cermony to keep with the theme even though as previously stated we are both Atheists. We let the Wiccan Priest and Priestess know we were Atheists from the outset but as you can imagine both of our Families were shocked LOL We both come from hardcore Italian/ Irish and Hispanic Catholic families...Needless to say some heads were rolling But for the most part both of our Families respected our decision because its was ours to make not theirs however my wonderful Step Mother-in Law decided to wear a white vail as my wife did not. Can you imagine me as an Athesit showing up to a Christian Funeral wearing Neon Green? That is the level of disrespect that MOST and I say MOST Atheists would never dream of showing towards people of Faith.

We are a Free Nation and should be given and in fact entitled to the right to make free decisions without persecution about belief and non-belief.

 

[KimR]

This is part of the "should we christen the girls?" conversation my husband and I had. He was raised Catholic and believes in God, but not religion. I am an atheist. We were under pressure from his family to have our daughters christened. My family couldn't have cared less, but his mother was having fits. We decided, out of respect for Catholics who actually take their faiths seriously, that it would be very hypocritical of us to do it just to please his mother. We would be making promises that we had no intention of keeping. It would have been a poor decision for us. If our daughters decide to pursue some form of spirituality as they get older, we will respect their decisions.

We are dealing with a similar situation. Both DH and I believe in God but we are not religious, nor do we attend church. My MIL is a born again Christian with very fundamentalist beliefs and she is distraught that we are not raising our girls in the church. Furthermore, due to her trying to impose her closed-minded, judgemental beliefs on my DDs, I've told her I don't want her discussing religion with the girls and that is absolutely killing her. She is convinced we are all going to hell.

I hate upsetting her but I really don't know what else to do – it's such a difficult, sticky situation and it's causing quite a bit of tension in our family. Why does religion, which is supposed to be a positive influence on people's lives, cause so many problems????

 

[freckles and boo]

We are dealing with a similar situation. Both DH and I believe in God but we are not religious, nor do we attend church. My MIL is a born again Christian with very fundamentalist beliefs and she is distraught that we are not raising our girls in the church. Furthermore, due to her trying to impose her closed-minded, judgemental beliefs on my DDs, I've told her I don't want her discussing religion with the girls and that is absolutely killing her. She is convinced we are all going to hell.

I hate upsetting her but I really don't know what else to do – it's such a difficult, sticky situation and it's causing quite a bit of tension in our family. Why does religion, which is supposed to be a positive influence on people's lives, cause so many problems????

That stinks. I would probably tell her she can feel free to pray for you but otherwise she is to keep her opinions to herself, especially those about you heading to hell. I hope she hasn't said anything about hell to your kids.

 

[KimR]

That stinks. I would probably tell her she can feel free to pray for you but otherwise she is to keep her opinions to herself, especially those about you heading to hell. I hope she hasn't said anything about hell to your kids.

No, I have to give her credit for that - she respects my wishes and keeps her opinions to herself. And the thing is, I wouldn't mind her sharing her beliefs with my DDs if she could:
1) state her beliefs as just that: beliefs and not fact;
2) refrain from making judgmental comments on gays, Muslims, Catholics, working mothers, democrats, and basically anyone else whose lifestyle is different from her own
3) be a bit more open minded and not go ballistic if someone disagrees with her

OMG, I think I'm channelling RustyScupper

 

[Pigeon]

Please. Your faith or lack of it should be a decision you make on your own and not made easier by outsiders.

Prayer is an amazing way to resolve anger.

Jenvenza~ I do believe it is 100% irresponsible for parents not to instill faith in their children. Buddha, God, Lord, Yahweh, Allah , etc. they all are pillars of faith and are the touchstone that a child will be able to turn to regardless of what & where life brings them.

It's not a matter of chosing not to believe in god. I just don't. I was raised in a very religiously observant Catholic house. I went to Catholic school. Even as a child, I never really believed any of it, but I went through the motions because my parents forced it down my throat. But no matter how many times I got dragged off to Mass or other religious events, I never really believed it. As an adult, I tried Quaker meeting, a Methodist congregation and a Unitarian Universalist Society. Nothing. Attending all those churches for all those years was just going through the motions because society expects it.

I'm a person who likes to do research and who believes in science. I did a ton of reading about religion, and in particular the origins of scriptures. The more reading I did, the less I believed, and the more convinced I became that it's all mythology. I tried praying right along all those many years of church attendance, and nothing. No insights, no answers, no feeling like I was communicating with god. Nothing.

What I am doing by being an atheist (agnostic probably better describes it for me) is just being honest with myself. I came across a quotation by Carl Sagan that says it all for me. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." Well, there's absolutely no proof that god is anything but wishful thinking on the part of the only species aware of its own mortality.

How could I possibly teach my kids to believe in something that I don't think is true? I don't teach them that the tooth fairy is real, and teaching them that god exists would be exactly the same thing. I prefer to be honest with my kids about what I believe.

I also agree that it is wrong to force religion on kids who aren't so inclined, particularly once they are teenagers and can think for themselves. I recall my Catholic upbringing with nothing but resentment.

 

[Mean Queen]

Please. Your faith or lack of it should be a decision you make on your own and not made easier by outsiders.

Prayer is an amazing way to resolve anger.

Jenvenza~ I do believe it is 100% irresponsible for parents not to instill faith in their children. Buddha, God, Lord, Yahweh, Allah , etc. they all are pillars of faith and are the touchstone that a child will be able to turn to regardless of what & where life brings them.

I guess us Atheists are just crazy because we try to instill in our children a faith in the human race, no matter how hard that seems at times. I may not believe in a higher being, but I do believe in many things, including the goodness of my fellow man (or woman.)

 

[metalis4ever]

I guess us Atheists are just crazy because we try to instill in our children a faith in the human race, no matter how hard that seems at times. I may not believe in a higher being, but I do believe in many things, including the goodness of my fellow man (or woman.)

You believe in the natural goodness of Humans? Thats crazy talk LOL

There are many scientists/authors such as Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins that have theorized that morality is natural in Homosapiens. More specifically Dawkins uses the "Theory of Memes" to explain the spreading of Religion. Whereas Sam Harris believes that the link between morailty and Religion is nothing more than a "myth". He uses contemporary statistical data as well examples of more secular Scandanavian Countries being more generous in helping others in need to support his stance. Sam Harris also points out that the "Golden Rule" was used and observed by humans such as Confucius way before making its way into the New Testament.

Figured I'd add some more ideas and theories to the conversation

 

[freckles and boo]

You believe in the natural goodness of Humans? Thats crazy talk LOL

There are many scientists/authors such as Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins that have theorized that morality is natural in Homosapiens. More specifically Dawkins uses the "Theory of Memes" to explain the spreading of Religion. Whereas Sam Harris believes that the link between morailty and Religion is nothing more than a "myth". He uses contemporary statistical data as well examples of more secular Scandanavian Countries being more generous in helping others in need to support his stance. Sam Harris also points out that the "Golden Rule" was used and observed by humans such as Confucius way before making its way into the New Testament.

Figured I'd add some more ideas and theories to the conversation

The Golden Rule is so simple. It requires nothing more than an ounce of reason. My daughter is autistic and has some communication problems (she is making huge progress ) yet she gets it. How do you want to be treated? Treat others the same way.

 

[Kies99]

My personal feeling is sadness for people that are atheists.....To think there is nothing greater than yourself is so self centered & self absorbed IMHO.

Wow. Not sure how to respond to this one. I think most things are greater than me. I'm CONSTANTLY amazed at the world around us and how great the odds were that I beat in order to come into being on this planet. That's a VERY broad statement to claim that all Atheists believe there is nothing greater than themselves.

I hope people don't think if you don't go to church or another house of worship that you are atheist, that isn't the case in this house or many other homes that I know about.

I agree. I think there's a lot of problems with organized religion and it's just as valuable to be religious without setting foot in a house of worship.

I do have a very dear friend who is an atheist and I think it's unfair & irresponsible for her & her husband not give their children belief in God and the foundation it will provide for the rest of their lives.

I'm Atheist. My wife is not. My wife and kids are very active at her church. My kids are young. I do not push my beliefs on them and at this point I talk to them as if God is real. When they ask why I don't go to church, I say I have to mow the lawn or do stuff around the house. They accept this and don't have a problem. When they are old enough and if they ask I'll tell the the truth. However, how is it unfair of your friend "not to give thier children belief in God"?? If she truly is a "very dear friend" then obviously you and she get along pretty well. That must mean you both have similar personalities. Therefore what makes her so wrong and you so right??? She's obviously not completely immoral and sinful or you wouldn't be dear friends, right?

 

[Disney Ella]

It's not a matter of chosing not to believe in god. I just don't. I was raised in a very religiously observant Catholic house. I went to Catholic school. Even as a child, I never really believed any of it, but I went through the motions because my parents forced it down my throat. But no matter how many times I got dragged off to Mass or other religious events, I never really believed it. As an adult, I tried Quaker meeting, a Methodist congregation and a Unitarian Universalist Society. Nothing. Attending all those churches for all those years was just going through the motions because society expects it.

I'm a person who likes to do research and who believes in science. I did a ton of reading about religion, and in particular the origins of scriptures. The more reading I did, the less I believed, and the more convinced I became that it's all mythology. I tried praying right along all those many years of church attendance, and nothing. No insights, no answers, no feeling like I was communicating with god. Nothing.

What I am doing by being an atheist (agnostic probably better describes it for me) is just being honest with myself. I came across a quotation by Carl Sagan that says it all for me. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." Well, there's absolutely no proof that god is anything but wishful thinking on the part of the only species aware of its own mortality.

How could I possibly teach my kids to believe in something that I don't think is true? I don't teach them that the tooth fairy is real, and teaching them that god exists would be exactly the same thing. I prefer to be honest with my kids about what I believe.

I also agree that it is wrong to force religion on kids who aren't so inclined, particularly once they are teenagers and can think for themselves. I recall my Catholic upbringing with nothing but resentment.

That's pretty much my story - just substitute "United Methodist" for "Catholic." I have told my kids they are free to choose. If they decide that believing in God makes their lives better, than good for them. If they feel no need for religion, that works too.

My mother doesn't directly challenge me about my lack of belief in religion, but she does things like telling me about a dream she had that it was the end of the world and MOST of the family was going up to heaven. She was upset that SOME people (me) wouldn't be going. Why do I want to be part of a religion that tries to get people by scaring them? If you don't believe what we do, we're going to burn you forever, but God loves you!

 

[Pigeon]

I would genuinely love to hear from the Christians (NEVERENOUGHWDW) about how exactly it would be ethical for an atheist/agnostic to teach their kids that god is real. I'm having a hard time understanding that line of thinking.

 

[Kath2003]

Ditto with me - raised in a Christian household, went to church every week, went to Sunday school, never believed a word that I was being told. Believe me, when you're a kid you WANT to believe - you want this unconditional love you're told about, the inner peace, someone to help you through times when you're struggling...but nothing. I too researched a WIDE range of other religions, finding out about their practices, beliefs, histories. I found some that appealed to me more than Christianity but I still didn't believe any of it.

Likewise I too couldn't teach my children something that isn't true. I intend to give them the experience of as many religions, and none, as I can - if not to encourage them to believe in religion, to understand the beliefs of others and to broaden their sociocultural understanding of the world. I'm not going to lie to my children about what I believe; that would be wrong.

 

[Saxsoon]

I would genuinely love to hear from the Christians (NEVERENOUGHWDW) about how exactly it would be ethical for an atheist/agnostic to teach their kids that god is real. I'm having a hard time understanding that line of thinking.

I don't see how you would be able to without falling into a trap many parents face with S.C. or the T.F. The most you could do without compromising yourself ethically would be to expose them to different religions at most, and explain that you don't believe it, but that doesn't mean they can't. Sorry, I can't be of more help.

Obviously, I wouldn't have to face this problem, as I believe God exists, but I definitely understand trying to get your kids to believe in something that you yourself don't even believe in.

 

[Saxsoon]

C.S. Lewis once talked about this issue in Mere Christianity. Why are there Good Athiests and Bad Christians? First off, I think you can have morality without necessarily believing God because I think He hardwired it into us. We were made in his image, which does not necessarily mean how we look. C.S. Lewis states that such a topic as you have listed is about as unquantifiable as proving there is indeed a God. Because we don't know how that person would act if the boards were flipped. Would the good Athiest be an even better person with God, and would the bad Christian be even worse without God? It is not as clear cut as many make it out to be. Plus, while generosity is a great thing, there are many other ways to make you a "good" person.(in man's eyes, not God's)

You believe in the natural goodness of Humans? Thats crazy talk LOL

There are many scientists/authors such as Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins that have theorized that morality is natural in Homosapiens. More specifically Dawkins uses the "Theory of Memes" to explain the spreading of Religion. Whereas Sam Harris believes that the link between morailty and Religion is nothing more than a "myth". He uses contemporary statistical data as well examples of more secular Scandanavian Countries being more generous in helping others in need to support his stance. Sam Harris also points out that the "Golden Rule" was used and observed by humans such as Confucius way before making its way into the New Testament.

Figured I'd add some more ideas and theories to the conversation

 

[Took]

I'm in the same boat as many here. I was raised in a deeply fundamentalist home, went to church every week, read and studied the Bible, read and studied C.S. Lewis (et al), and still eventually grew into agnosticism ("atheism light" it's been called).

I have a DD who I no longer take to church as both DH and I don't believe what they and other churches teach. Our parents are very hurt and that hurts us. So far, no major battles, but it's very, very tricky. I have told DD that she is free to pursue religion in any way that brings her satisfaction and that faith is a deeply personl thing. I don't know if this is the "right' thing to say, but it feels okay and I can only do the best I can.

Thanks to others for sharing your stories.

 

[Aardvarks]

I have been an atheist for 40 years. Atheism is not a 'belief system' there is no implied faith.

I do not 'believe' in dinosaurs. I do however accept the validity of the fossil record and stand by the current therories of evolution as being the best way to describe the amassed evidence.

I have been part on and part off a member of serveral online critical thinking sites for many years. They often meet up, but as yet I have never been free of work in order to attend.

The mantra of my type of atheist includes 1 show me the evidence, and 2 why?

I have no faith, I have no need of a creator being in order to ponder and describe the world in which I find myself. The theories put forwards stand up to scrutiny without including this additional opperator ( see Occams Razor)

I have no issues with other people having faith in order to 'hold it all together' it is just that for me this is an uneccessary complication.

My morality comes from the logical thinking behind the impact of my behaviour within the society that I cohabit. I do not need faith based morality. I can test my morality on a daily basis............often by asking............'what would batman do in this situation?'.........Yes I like a laugh, I love life and I enjoy great friendships and have many companions of almost every faith. I dont hassle them and they dont hassle me.

I guess we all want to live life well, raise moral and hardworking kids, and live long enough to see strong and healthy grandkids. I like to make friends, do the right thing by people and ........have an odd beer.

With best wishes to all

Varkie

 

[jenn&nelsonrego]

I have been an atheist for 40 years. Atheism is not a 'belief system' there is no implied faith.

I do not 'believe' in dinosaurs. I do however accept the validity of the fossil record and stand by the current therories of evolution as being the best way to describe the amassed evidence.

I have been part on and part off a member of serveral online critical thinking sites for many years. They often meet up, but as yet I have never been free of work in order to attend.

The mantra of my type of atheist includes 1 show me the evidence, and 2 why?

I have no faith, I have no need of a creator being in order to ponder and describe the world in which I find myself. The theories put forwards stand up to scrutiny without including this additional opperator ( see Occams Razor)

I have no issues with other people having faith in order to 'hold it all together' it is just that for me this is an uneccessary complication.

My morality comes from the logical thinking behind the impact of my behaviour within the society that I cohabit. I do not need faith based morality. I can test my morality on a daily basis............often by asking............'what would batman do in this situation?'.........Yes I like a laugh, I love life and I enjoy great friendships and have many companions of almost every faith. I dont hassle them and they dont hassle me.

I guess we all want to live life well, raise moral and hardworking kids, and live long enough to see strong and healthy grandkids. I like to make friends, do the right thing by people and ........have an odd beer.

With best wishes to all

Varkie

Sounds good to me! To each their own right?

 

[Tiggernut_jadie]

VERY well said Varkie...you and i both have the same sort of outlook on life. My sig shows that we're in good company as old Albert Einstein felt the same way!

 

[perla75]

You believe in the natural goodness of Humans? Thats crazy talk LOL

There are many scientists/authors such as Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins that have theorized that morality is natural in Homosapiens. More specifically Dawkins uses the "Theory of Memes" to explain the spreading of Religion. Whereas Sam Harris believes that the link between morailty and Religion is nothing more than a "myth". He uses contemporary statistical data as well examples of more secular Scandanavian Countries being more generous in helping others in need to support his stance. Sam Harris also points out that the "Golden Rule" was used and observed by humans such as Confucius way before making its way into the New Testament.

Figured I'd add some more ideas and theories to the conversation

That is very interesting-I am going to read up on these two individuals. Thank you for sharing that info!

I am an agnostic Jew by the way and proud of it. When I have children, I plan to expose them to Jewish culture, but I do not plan to force the idea of God on them. I will let them choose the path they feel suits them best.

 

[perla75]

The Golden Rule is so simple. It requires nothing more than an ounce of reason. My daughter is autistic and has some communication problems (she is making huge progress ) yet she gets it. How do you want to be treated? Treat others the same way.

I like your analogy here.