Atheist Joins Presbyterian Church

[VickiVM]

I don't want to provoke name-calling or judgment of others opinions. Rather I'm curious to hear what my fellow DIS'ers think about this:

Why I Am A Christian...

My pastor (mentioned towards the end of the article) has been working with other area pastors to counsel with this church and their session to provide guidance. Needless to say - it's quite an unusual situation.

 

[goodeats]

I certainly don't think he's unusual. Just more honest than a lot of other people.

 

[poohandwendy]

WWJD? He would welcome him with open arms and that is what all Christians of that church should do, IMHO.

 

[VickiVM]

I certainly don't think he's unusual. Just more honest than a lot of other people.

Nope - he's not unusual at all - but his joining a Christian church is unusual.

 

[Free4Life11]

How do you join a church if you're not a Christian??? I'm so confused...

 

[jimmiej]

This could only happen in Austin. If you've never been there... Austin is a liberal island in a vast sea of conservatism. Have you seen that blue dot in the middle of Texas on the red/blue political map? That's Austin! There's a bumper sticker around here that says, "Keep Austin weird!" Very appropriate!

That being said, this gentleman could not be a member of my church if he didn't confess Jesus as Lord. He'd be welcome to attend, but could not "officially" become a member.

 

[jimmiej]

WWJD? He would welcome him with open arms and that is what all Christians of that church should do, IMHO.

I respectfully disagree. He should be accepted into the church only if he accepts Christ as his Savior & Lord.

Matthew 7

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

 

[BillSears]

I've debated going to church and I'm an agnostic. The church down the street seems to have some nice people in it who I'd like to meet.

 

[poohandwendy]

I respectfully disagree. He should be accepted into the church only if he accepts Christ as his Savior & Lord.

Matthew 7

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

In my opinion, it is the responsibility of Christians to spread the word, not to decide the potential salvation of those around them whether that be in church or outside of it. That is God's job. (as illustrated in the scripture you quote) As a Christian, I cannot think of a better place for a non-believer to be introduced to and immersed in the Holy Spirit than in a church. Well, a church that is full of non-judgemental believers, that is.

So, I guess we both just agree to respectfully disagree.

 

[Ub_Iwerks]

There are many ways to be brought to Christ. For some, it is a learning process before taking that leap of faith. Poohandwendy said it best. If Christ and the early Christians had immediately dismissed non-believers, the Christian movement would have died out before it even started.

 

[phillybeth]

In my opinion, it is the responsibility of Christians to spread the word, not to decide the potential salvation of those around them whether that be in church or outside of it. That is God's job.

I should just put an "I agree with PAW" in my sig line

Jesus broke bread with tax collectors and prositutes, the two most hated and reviled groups in Jerusalem. I don't think He would have a problem with an atheist visiting a church.

Eidited to add: I think it is very arrogant for anyone to decide who is worthy of salvation. Doesn't Jesus also warn against that?

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Jesus broke bread with tax collectors and prositutes, the two most hated and reviled groups in Jerusalem. I don't think He would have a problem with an atheist visiting a church.

I agree, except that he's not visiting, he joined the church.

 

[phillybeth]

I agree, except that he's not visiting, he joined the church.

Well see you're going to have to explain the difference to this heathen. I'm Catholic and we 'join' a church by registering in the parish. Why is this such a big deal?

 

[LindsayDunn228]

I guess it's because I would never visit a church and just up and join if I didn't believe what they believed. Visit and get the general idea, decide if it coincided with what I believed, join and/or move on. IMO, when you join a church, you become part of the church "body." If you don't believe in God at all, then joining just seems pointless to me.

As far as the Catholic church goes, I don't know a lot about it, and I never said you were a heathen.

 

[Marseeya]

Well see you're going to have to explain the difference to this heathen. I'm Catholic and we 'join' a church by registering in the parish. Why is this such a big deal?

When I joined a protestant church (back when I was 13), I had to pledge a commitment to God and Christ. I'm not sure if all protestant churches require that, though.

Why wouldn't he just join a Unitarian church, though? I'm atheist and have often wished we had a Unitarian church around here to join.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Why wouldn't he just join a Unitarian church, though? I'm atheist and have often wished we had a Unitarian church around here to join.

Now see, THIS makes more sense.

 

[tkd lisa]

In order to "join" many Protestant Churches you do have to define your beliefs. He mentions the beliefs he stated in the article. However, I personally would say that those beliefs are not the belief of a Christian, they are the beliefs of a "moral" person. A Christian is a person who has personally accepted Christ as their savior. He is a member of xyz church, not a Christian in my opinion.

And the difference between "member" and "attender" (again, my opinion, and the way my churches have operated).

1) Attenders voices are heard in discussions, but if an item requires a vote (i.e. budget things, doctrinal issues, leadership positions, etc) non-members don't vote.
2) Attenders may not hold leadership positions (i.e. Sunday school teachers, elders, etc.)
3) If there are affiliated schools, counseling centers, activities, etc. often times members get preferential treatment for limited slots, or prices. The assumption is that members have made a long term committment in time and/or finances and should get preference over other people who haven't made that committment.

I believe that Jesus taught to accept (i.e. not judge) all, but to discern at the same time. Just because he associated with prostitutes, criminals, etc. he exhorted them to embrace change. There's no evidence that I'm aware of that any of his disciplines maintained a life of crime after they had become disciples. So this mindset that Jesus would have wanted him as a "believer" when he specifically states that he doesn't believe doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Disney Doll]

It sounds like he joined the church for socio-political reasons, rather than religious reasons. Who knows though? If he participates in the activities of the church, he may slowly come to believe in the religious aspects. God does sometimes work in mysterious ways, as I have seen evidenced in my own life.

Or he may just be grandstanding and looking for attention, in which case, when his 15 minutes of fame as "the atheist who joined a church" are over, he'll move on to something else to regain the attention.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I'm Catholic and we 'join' a church by registering in the parish. Why is this such a big deal?

I don't know about the Presbytarian church, but in the Methodist Church members have the right to vote on issues of doctrine. We recently had a vote to determine how often Communion would be served. When members join the church, they stand in front of the congregation and profess a belief in Jesus Christ as well as pledge to work to further the knowledge of Jesus Christ in the Church and the Community. I've never heard of anybody having the right to alter those vows to support their own personal beliefs. I can't imagine a congregation that would be willing to accept it. Those are the reasons to prevent this in theory and they are the the distinct differences between Members and Attendees.

In practicallity, there are many people who attend our church on a regular basis (some more than technical "members" who haven't been seen for years) who never become official members of the Church. They work in the food bank, volunteer at VBS, help out with the Youth Group and do all kinds of good things. That is completely accepted and they are more than welcome.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

In my opinion, it is the responsibility of Christians to spread the word, not to decide the potential salvation of those around them whether that be in church or outside of it. That is God's job. (as illustrated in the scripture you quote) As a Christian, I cannot think of a better place for a non-believer to be introduced to and immersed in the Holy Spirit than in a church. Well, a church that is full of non-judgemental believers, that is.

So, I guess we both just agree to respectfully disagree.

agreed--but what is funny he calls himself a REAL Christian--I am not sure how he can proclaim this if he doens't believe Jesus is the son of God, that he died for our sins and rose from the dead.

Sounds like he agrees that Jesus was a nice guy---but him a REAL Christian.


Sure it is judgemental---but he's the one that said it.

But yes--the best place for him would be in the church.