Atheist Joins Presbyterian Church

[minkydog]

There is a big difference between embracing Christian ideals and being a Christian. A Christian is a follower of Christ, one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God and the Savior of the world. Many non-believers follow his teachings, but stop short of believing in his deity. This man is not a Christian.

I have no problem with this man being in church, but I'm puzzled as to why this congregation would accept him for membership knowing that A) he's not a believer and B) he's doing this to make a political statement.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Well see you're going to have to explain the difference to this heathen. I'm Catholic and we 'join' a church by registering in the parish. Why is this such a big deal?

I'm Catholic as well and I don't agree that it isn't a big deal.


From the article:

By definition, a church is a fellowship of believers--those who have confessed that Jesus Christ is Lord. The very fact that a contemporary congregation could celebrate allowing an atheist to join is an indication that such a congregation is, by biblical definition, a false church.

Our church is in a community action committee (I forget the name but it is the promote a safer area) with a Baptist church. We work together--we join forces...we don't join each others church though.

The pastor (in the article) admitting this parisitic relationship is a sign of that churches priorities and it isn't to educate the man on the Christian Faith:

Jim Rigby, pastor of St. Andrew's, a church affiliated with the Presbyterian Church (USA), explains that allowing an atheist to join his church is a matter of building "connections."

"Neither the church nor Jensen views his membership as surrendering anything," Rigby insists, "but instead is an attempt to build connections. Such efforts are crucial in a world where there seems not to be a lot of wood to build the bridges we need. And the shame is, while we fight among ourselves, the world is burning."

It is just sad. The church is playing politics and nothing more. Should all churches run and get "token" politicians as members now?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I have no problem with this man being in church, but I'm puzzled as to why this congregation would accept him for membership knowing that A) he's not a believer and B) he's doing this to make a political statement.

I found the pastor's quote and his "reasoning" and posted it in #22.

 

[clarabelle]

Well I am Presbyterian (USA) the same denomination as in the article.

It is a fairly "liberal" denomination.
But...
When we join we stand up before a group of people and make a statement.
Also every Sunday we make a statement of faith. (Mostly the apostles creed)
That basically says we believe in Christ ,that he rose from the dead and went to heaven.

I know many people struggle with their faith and don't believe every word they are saying. But I would like to think that most people WANT to believe or they are working towards it.

Although I don't think this church should turn him away. I question his decision to participate in something on a regular basis that has no meaning for him.

If I were an Atheist -I would be one. This picking and choosing of the parts you like I find disturbing.

 

[auntpolly]

I respectfully disagree. He should be accepted into the church only if he accepts Christ as his Savior & Lord.

Do you really think that's what Jesus would say??? I don't for a minute.

 

[robinb]

As an athesist, I think he's nuts!

 

[Wishing on a star]

There is a HUGE difference between accepting Christian ideals, and accepting our Lord Jesus Christ as your creator and saviour.

There is also a HUGE difference between being accepted by the church, and being accepted 'into' the Church.

Yes, all people should be accepted by Christian churches.
No, not all people should be accepted 'into' Christian churches.

Being accepted into the body of Christ is defined by one and only one thing. A person accepting and professing Christ as your creator and savior. Period.

 

[auntpolly]

agreed--but what is funny he calls himself a REAL Christian--.

He can call himself a martian for all I care. When I am at communion at mass and I look around at the people and really feel like the body of Christ, I realize that we all are, no matter who the people are or what they might seem like beyond that moment. For a minute, anyway, I lose all sense of judgement of my fellow man and I believe that's the way Jesus would want it.

Let the guy come, say whatever he likes. Hopefully his mind will bechanged.

 

[ead79]

Very interesting article—thanks for sharing it.

poohandwendy said it best: “As a Christian, I cannot think of a better place for a non-believer to be introduced to and immersed in the Holy Spirit than in a church.” If we turn away those who profess not to believe then we don’t offer them the chance to come to a saving relationship with Christ.

However, speaking strictly on the issue of membership vs. attendance, I do think that church members should agree to a basic set of principals in order to become church members. That is not to say that the prospective member has to agree with every small piece of doctrine, but rather that they have to accept the same core beliefs as the church teaches. For a Christian church this would be belief in the deity of Christ, of salvation through His death and resurrection, and of course the belief in God as well. Those who wish to attend the church but not become formal members would of course not have to espouse any specific beliefs.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I respectfully disagree. He should be accepted into the church only if he accepts Christ as his Savior & Lord.

Matthew 7

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Sorry it is not for us to claim to know what is in his heart. If he wants to join then we Christians must welcome him into our church. Maybe he has doubts that he is trying to understand. He may decide to leave later or find deeper faith. It is not for us to decide or KNOW. There may be ceremonies that he does not want to partake in or is not allowed to partake in due to his present beliefs, but that is not a reason to deny him membership. If he joined as a mockery of the Christians that is not my concern. As Christians we open are hearts and arms to all, no exceptions. If your church wants to exclude him, so be it, but that is not a church I would join as a Christian.

 

[VickiVM]

Well I am Presbyterian (USA) the same denomination as in the article.

It is a fairly "liberal" denomination.
But...
When we join we stand up before a group of people and make a statement.
Also every Sunday we make a statement of faith. (Mostly the apostles creed)
That basically says we believe in Christ ,that he rose from the dead and went to heaven.

Interesting thing, Clarabelle, PCUSA's Book of Order does not specifically say that a joining member is required to profess that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior. However, at all session meetings (I am an Elder) when new members are accepted, the pastor usually asks that question.

PCUSA likes to cover all the hot topics and get clarification, however, this has thrown a kink into things. No one imagined that a self-proclaimed Atheist would desire to become a member of the church.

 

[Geoff_M]

Should he be welcomed into the services and other church functions? Yes. Should he be afforded the same civil treatment as any other person that walks off of the street? You bet! (This is where the "WWJD" applies.) However, I think it would be proper to ask that he at least accept the basic articles of faith before becoming a full member. Church membership is not equal to "salvation", so it's not clear to me how withholding membership would somehow harm him. Joining a church, as an atheist, is an empty meaningless act... unless you view your church as more of a social club or more interested in non-spiritual issues.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I've debated going to church and I'm an agnostic. The church down the street seems to have some nice people in it who I'd like to meet.

Why not go and meet some of the members. Go to a picnic or other type of event there. See how you feel there and how they welcome you too. You can always walk away if you don't feel comfortable there.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Well see you're going to have to explain the difference to this heathen. I'm Catholic and we 'join' a church by registering in the parish. Why is this such a big deal?

I am Catholic to and it is not a big deal.

 

[Maleficent13]

I am not at all sure what he means to accomplish with this, unless it is just publicity, in which case, he's done it. Otherwise, it's just confusing.

 

[clarabelle]

Interesting thing, Clarabelle, PCUSA's Book of Order does not specifically say that a joining member is required to profess that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior. However, at all session meetings (I am an Elder) when new members are accepted, the pastor usually asks that question.

PCUSA likes to cover all the hot topics and get clarification, however, this has thrown a kink into things. No one imagined that a self-proclaimed Atheist would desire to become a member of the church.

But as part of the service we are constantly making statements. Of faith of Confession. Is he just standing there quietly during those things? Maybe his church doesn't do those? What does he do during the hymns?
It just seems silly to want to join if you truly don't believe and aren't trying to.
I don't think the church should turn him away -I am just disappointed that he thinks it is all socio/political.

 

[Geoff_M]

What does he do during the hymns?

I'd guess he likes the tunes and sings along like we would to "Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer", "Frosty The Snowman", etc.

 

[ncdisneyfan]

Jesus broke bread with tax collectors and prositutes, the two most hated and reviled groups in Jerusalem. I don't think He would have a problem with an atheist visiting a church.

Nor do I. But if you read the article, that's not what happened. The atheist isn't just VISITING the church, he has been allowed to JOIN the church. There is a big difference.

Eidited to add: I think it is very arrogant for anyone to decide who is worthy of salvation. Doesn't Jesus also warn against that?

While nobody on Earth can say for SURE that they know anything about a person's salvation, you have only to look to the Bible and see the requirements for salvation, and then examine a person and see if they have met those requirements. If they haven't, and they openly admit that they haven't, there's about a 99.999999% chance that they don't have salvation. It has nothing to do with being WORTHY of salvation; none of us are WORTHY, myself included, b/c we're all sinful. But God, in His grace, has allowed us all the opportunity through Christ's death on the cross!

 

[DawnCt1]

A church, any church, is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints. If there is a chance that an athiest can be saved, I would welcome him with open arms and use his presence in the pew as a "teaching opportunity".

 

[mickeyfan2]

I am just disappointed that he thinks it is all socio/political.

Isn't this what the Christian right does?