Atheism in decline? (debate likely)

[septbride2002]

Again, I agree that evolution is a biological process that has been observed in our world. But to extend it back to the beginning of life? To quote yourself, "there is no proof" that the observed phenomena of evolution is the origin of life itself.

Which is why it is called The THEORY of Evolution. When I was in science class we were taught the difference between Fact and Theory. Actually I can remember in 4th grade taking a test on it. Yes the Theory of Evolution will continue to be taught in schools until either another theory can be proved to be more scientifically accurate or until we have a Law/Fact. Let it go people! Othere well known theory's:

Big Bang Theory
Theory of Relativity

If you want your children to learn that God created the world in 7 days then send them to private christian schools - it is well within your right to do so.

~Amanda

 

[Galahad]

I am packing my bags today and leaving lovely little Indiana for the west coast on Friday.
I really don't mean to offend my neighbors here, and they have good qualities to be sure, but again, just too focused on what works for them as a solution for all the World's problems. Religion is institutionalised here, even through the schools, and that is what scares me. DS has a teacher who's DH is a Reverand at one of our over 300 Churches (Population 160,000), and feels it not only appropriate, but neccessary to insert her religious beliefs into her lesson plan by, well, at the moment, only allowing a "persuasive speech", a requirement for passing her course, to only include subject matter that comforms to the "subjects that are acceptable to me in my own happy version of the world." Yes that is a quote. Quess what the subjects so far have been about? Homosexual marriage, Pro-life/Pro-Choice, the teaching of evolution in schools. DS's topic is Hybrid verses conventional gasoline powered cars. She said it's a pretty dull subject in her opinion, but OK. I am so glad he won't have her as a teacher anymore. (I am not one to disrespect teachers and ALWAYS give them the right to teach how they want, but this one is off the wall)

What part of our lovely State do you live in? I've never encountered that sort of coercion here. Is it a bad thing to have 300 churches?

 

[Bichon Barb]

I am packing my bags today and leaving lovely little Indiana for the west coast on Friday.
I really don't mean to offend my neighbors here, and they have good qualities to be sure, but again, just too focused on what works for them as a solution for all the World's problems. Religion is institutionalised here, even through the schools, and that is what scares me. DS has a teacher who's DH is a Reverand at one of our over 300 Churches (Population 160,000), and feels it not only appropriate, but neccessary to insert her religious beliefs into her lesson plan by, well, at the moment, only allowing a "persuasive speech", a requirement for passing her course, to only include subject matter that comforms to the "subjects that are acceptable to me in my own happy version of the world." Yes that is a quote. Quess what the subjects so far have been about? Homosexual marriage, Pro-life/Pro-Choice, the teaching of evolution in schools. DS's topic is Hybrid verses conventional gasoline powered cars. She said it's a pretty dull subject in her opinion, but OK. I am so glad he won't have her as a teacher anymore. (I am not one to disrespect teachers and ALWAYS give them the right to teach how they want, but this one is off the wall)

That is unbelieveable, tlgoblue. An early congrats to you and your family on your move.

I'm going off track here for a minute, but over the last few years, there seems to be an explosion of religious zealotry in this country. It's almost like a self-righteous competition to see who can be more "holier than thou". Not very Christian-like, IMHO. And also dangerous. One can rationalize anything when they think that God is behind them.

 

[tlgoblue]

What part of our lovely State do you live in? I've never encountered that sort of coercion here. Is it a bad thing to have 300 churches?

Fort Wayne. Nothing wrong with having over 300 churches, but we have only 2 Jewish Temples and we used to have a Mosque in a store front, but it disappeared after 9/11. I was only trying to illustrate the institutionalization of a specific faith, and how it influences the community in which I live. I was responding to a post which claimed that Atheism seems to be on the rise. Well not in my community. No offense intended to the wonderful people in Indiana, only showing that there are regional differences about faith.

(I would also not call it coercion, as it seems much more insidious than that. Though it is very coersive amonst the youth here, but that is just youth. )

 

[phillybeth]

Society and environments change. Look how differently we live from a century ago. We ourselves have adapted to our new lifestyles... likewise, other circumstances have caused animals to need to adapt in order to survive. As the world advances, so we those who live in it...but at least the Creator allowed for such ability.

But wouldn't an intelligent creator KNOW what changes are coming and design so no change is needed?

Yes, we live differently than our ancestors did 100 years ago, but that's not evolution. We don't adapt to suit our environment, we change our environment to suit our (current) adaptations- the opposite of evolution.

 

[caitycaity]

Fort Wayne.

i knew it! we have friends that live in ft. wayne and they feel the same way (and they are very religious themselves!).

 

[tlgoblue]

i knew it! we have friends that live in ft. wayne and they feel the same way (and they are very religious themselves!).

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[PneumaticTransit]

I don't believe there is decline in atheism. Atheist are just looked over because they aren't visibly out there. I don't pass any atheist church's or encounter people peddling atheism at the mall - simply because that would be an oxymoron.
I think it truly lies in peoples understanding of science - and use or wording. Most Christians use the word "theory" as if it means "wild guess". I don't see these major gaps in evolution... what I notice are the major gaps in the Bible. Why does Genesis date the creation of Earth back only 6000 years? People argue that there are "omissions" from the geneology. Well, that would be THEIR guess, wouldn't it? Nothing unnerves me more than people adjusting the scripture to follow scientific fact.
If you don't believe in the Big Bang because you follow Creationism - then I have a question for you - Who or What created God? If you believe God always existed than why is it such a stretch to believe that the building blocks of the universe have always existed?
The Greeks whole heartedly believed in Zeus, Hera, & Apollo - but now that is smiled upon as "silly mythology stories" because obviously someone isn't pulling the sun with a chariot. Why is it easy for Christians to discredit them and not understand why someone else would question their God?

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

Boy, it sure seems like religion (especially Christianity) gets a bad rap. As I look through the last page or two of the thread I see allusions to Christianity being the nurturing ground for hypocrisy, bigotry, hate, and other negative characteristics.

Being a disciple of Jesus Christ, this concerns me. I agree that being Christian (not including or excluding other religions here) includes boundaries about what actions and values are "godly". That is what rubs the world the wrong way. It did when Jesus walked the earth, and it hasn't changed a bit. Yes -the way of Jesus is about peace, love, and understanding. But it is also about sacrifice and servanthood. For those who have had negative experiences with Christians (to the point of making fun of them and feeling hurt by them), may that not be the end of your story. May God work through some believer somewhere along the line in a whole new and different way.

 

[ktink]

Boy, it sure seems like religion (especially Christianity) gets a bad rap. As I look through the last page or two of the thread I see allusions to Christianity being the nurturing ground for hypocrisy, bigotry, hate, and other negative characteristics.

Being a disciple of Jesus Christ, this concerns me. I agree that being Christian (not including or excluding other religions here) includes boundaries about what actions and values are "godly". That is what rubs the world the wrong way. It did when Jesus walked the earth, and it hasn't changed a bit. Yes -the way of Jesus is about peace, love, and understanding. But it is also about sacrifice and servanthood. For those who have had negative experiences with Christians (to the point of making fun of them and feeling hurt by them), may that not be the end of your story. May God work through some believer somewhere along the line in a whole new and different way.

I agree 100%.

 

[Galahad]

Fort Wayne. Nothing wrong with having over 300 churches, but we have only 2 Jewish Temples and we used to have a Mosque in a store front, but it disappeared after 9/11. I was only trying to illustrate the institutionalization of a specific faith, and how it influences the community in which I live. I was responding to a post which claimed that Atheism seems to be on the rise. Well not in my community. No offense intended to the wonderful people in Indiana, only showing that there are regional differences about faith.

(I would also not call it coercion, as it seems much more insidious than that. Though it is very coersive amonst the youth here, but that is just youth. )

Interesting. I am from Ft. Wayne. DW and I were married there nearly 25 years ago. My folks still live there. My father was Jewish, for example and NEVER experienced anti-semitism in any way more widespread than anywhere else in the country. Indiana in general, and Fort Wayne in particular aren't anywhere near the bible belt, so I'm surprised by your experience.

How can it be more insidious thatn coersion?

 

[JoeThaNo1Stunna]

Unbelievable. In fact, laughable

I'm sorry, I just don't feel like giving you an entire lesson of biology after that statement.

The fact that you brought up the young Earth argument makes me cringe.

I really didn't want to respond to this thread, but the tone you use with others on here has been quite a shame. People may disagree with you, but you should still treat them with respect.

Now as far as the actual topic goes, I could care less.

 

[caitycaity]

Now as far as the actual topic goes, I could care less.

wow joe, we actually agree about something. whethere or not atheism is in decline doesn't bother me personally. while i personally am atheist, i'm not on some kind of mission to eradicate religion or takeover the world. (insert evil muhahahahahaha here).

 

[tlgoblue]

Boy, it sure seems like religion (especially Christianity) gets a bad rap. As I look through the last page or two of the thread I see allusions to Christianity being the nurturing ground for hypocrisy, bigotry, hate, and other negative characteristics.

I haven't seen that on this thread.

Being a disciple of Jesus Christ, this concerns me. I agree that being Christian (not including or excluding other religions here) includes boundaries about what actions and values are "godly". That is what rubs the world the wrong way. It did when Jesus walked the earth, and it hasn't changed a bit. Yes -the way of Jesus is about peace, love, and understanding. But it is also about sacrifice and servanthood.

I totally agree, but the question I have is "What would Jesus do?"
I'm not being flippant, but for me, and I do consider myself Christian, though mostly by way of early indoctrination, the faith is more about following the teachings of Christ and following His example. He loved all God's children and did not pass judgement, but rather gave them a reason to be hopeful. He gave them a reason to want to become more like him. This is a common thread through out all religions, and if the faithful would follow the example, then they would lead people to their faith by example, IMO.

It is when anyreligion begins to dismiss any but their own faithful as un-Godly, and because of that, feel justified in forcing their beliefs upon non-believers, that the trouble begins. The religious fundamentalists, of all faiths, not just Christianity, have historically been the purpetuators of Faith-based hate, not the other way around. It is precisely "faith based initiatives" that have lead to many wars. To borrow a page form George Carlin, 9/11 was a faith based initiative.

 

[Honu]

I am packing my bags today and leaving lovely little Indiana for the west coast on Friday.

Sorry you have to move, but WELCOME to the left coast! You will not have those problems in public schools here.

Opening up the Golden Gate now. Come on in.

 

[phillybeth]

wow joe, we actually agree about something. whethere or not atheism is in decline doesn't bother me personally. while i personally am atheist, i'm not on some kind of mission to eradicate religion or takeover the world. (insert evil muhahahahahaha here).

I agree. It's the way I see the world, it works for me. Other people see the world in different ways that works for them. I just don't get why for some people Christian = creationist.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

As we read the gospels we see that Jesus loved, healed, included, challenged, turned over tables, cast out demons, etc. Most significantly Jesus died and was resurrected, forever overcoming death with life -sin with hope.

 

[dcentity2000]

At the last count only one in twenty were agnostic or atheist so it wouldn't totally shock me.



Rich::

 

[tlgoblue]

As we read the gospels we see that Jesus loved, healed, included, challenged, turned over tables, cast out demons, etc. Most significantly Jesus died and was resurrected, forever overcoming death with life -sin with hope.

To this end I agree, however, he never started a war in His name. Who knows? This may smack of Blasphemy, but had he lived long enough, and developed a larger following in his lifetime, do you think He would have?

 

[swilphil]

To this end I agree, however, he never started a war in His name. Who knows? This may smack of Blasphemy, but had he lived long enough, and developed a larger following in his lifetime, do you think He would have?

No, I don't think He would. He is the Prince of Peace. He would have done many more things with his live, but He would not have started a war. It goes against his teaching.