At the world now, went to DVC tour today, didnt buy here is why

[Orsino]

Be sure to give some thought as to which use year month makes the most sense to you. It looks like DVC was trying to foist March on you. Is that what you really want? Or was DVC just pushing that upon you?

Learn what a use year is, and what the rules are for banking. Then decide which use year month is best for your situation. It might be March, but it might not!

 

[Dean]

My main point in that post was to try to detail for the OP the very few things that are actually guaranteed to DVC owners.

To your point, with the spread that now exists between resale and direct, it's really hard to justify purchasing anything directly through Disney...unless one is simply a hostage to their financing at high rates (which is another whole topic unto itself). So, unless they turn that spread around, they're going to have to do something to provide some advantage to purchasing direct.

The sign I've been looking for is ROFR activity. If DVC continues to be quiet on the ROFR front as the new fiscal year unfolds, that would indicate to me that they are going to try some other method of encouraging direct sales other than the perceived "comfort" of purchasing from Disney...which ain't worth paying DOUBLE! I don't have any reliable sources, but I think they have to do something to make direct purchases more attractive.

The logical method of providing some advantage to direct purchases would be to create some kind of qualified/non-qualified difference. Losing all of the non-DVC options wouldn't matter to me, because I bought DVC for DVC and I know that's where the real value of DVC is. If I were a new prospective buyer facing that qualified/non-qualified question -- and I DID MY RESEARCH -- I'd still buy resale because I know I'd be getting the real value of DVC without the inflated prices. I'd rather pay cash for the extra stuff, or go buy Wyndham or some other good timeshare for $1 on eBay.

I agree on the guaranteed vs not front. We'll see if they do anything else but there are some pretty good (good sources, limited hits) indications that changes may be coming. It should be very interesting to the the reactions.

 

[JimMIA]

Can someone convince me I am crazy for not buying?

$120/point for Bay View. I am looking for around 250ish points. I am a complete noob at this timeshare thing. They were offering a 10% discount on purchase price and a years points for this year before march of next year when you get 2011 points.

I just dont understand why I wouldnt buy secondary market. I may not understand all this, I like the idea and I like the flexibility, but I think the price is too steep for the current market

they wouldnt even talk about anything than Bay View, wouldnt show me numbers on Animal kingdom or sarasota

Any and all advice welcome. Here until Saturday

Thanks

In trying to delineate what is guaranteed and what's not with DVC, I did not intend to hijack OP's thread off into areas that don't concern them. Let's all remember what the original questions were, and help them with what they are interested in.

 

[a742246]

Another suggestion for you is to buy smaller contract that total 250 points.
Something like 2 75 point contracts and one 100 point contract.
Why?
It would be easy to sell and at a higher resale price in the future, if you decide on downsizing.
Also use year is something to look out for. (EX if you like to travel in July
then you want a use year that starts a couple of months before that) just in case you need to cancel that ressie you will have several months to reschedule.
Good luck!

 

[DizGirl20]

if you buy resale does Disney treat you differant or is it more difficult to use?

Hi,

We joined DVC in December 2009. Our initial contract was an AKV contract purchased direct thru Disney. In May of 2010, we decided we needed more points; this time we purchased a resale contract.

I can see no difference in the way these 2 contracts are treated. Going the resale route takes a bit more time to get your points "into the system", but we saved a few thousand dollars. Well worth it in my opinion. Good Luck and take your time - DVC is not going anywhere.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

I just dont understand why I wouldnt buy secondary market. I may not understand all this, I like the idea and I like the flexibility, but I think the price is too steep for the current market

Best of luck to you in your decision. I welcome you to contact The Timeshare Store, Inc.® at sales@dvcstore.com. One of our associates can mail you a brochure (or email it to you) and add you to our distribution list so when new listings become available you will be notified. The Timeshare Store, Inc.® typically receives between 150 and 180 new listings each month.

Jason

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

..just a few of my opinions, & our observations. i think based on
your input of being "new" , i would suggest taking more time to
learn about dvc & your personal needs, including what you expect
in the future.

we started learning in 2002. there have always been sources of
good info here, but i think it is important to apply it to one
individual choices. [based on your current & future family needs]

we didn't joined until 2009. several factors happened while we
were @ wdw that had an influence on us buying @ blt. we too
were attracted to resales but there were many other reasons why
we decided to go disney & buy extra points. we didn't buy for
the perks.

balance. some are in~deeds very happy with buying @ ssr/okw. i
think they are excellent choices based on what they posted. but
not for us. [ also i think those telling you if you plan any disney
vacations, you are much better off by buying one of these.]

other factors i have read here. some have sold certain resorts to
re-buy @ blt. they took losses , but getting the prime blt locations
became an issue. so for the long haul, it made good sense. also
i go by the patterns not the individual. almost 100% of owners outside
blt, give negative reports, but that make sense for trying to reduce
others. blt will always be desirable, simple because of it's location.
it was designed exactly what it needed to be, to fit beside the
contemp. & views of the magic kingdom. in the begining, there were
many posting how the extra safety measures were a pain. then on the
flip side, even when others knew the rules, made it clear they were
going to sneak in. safety, & not having intrusive guests on top
crowding us out, is why we think safety rules should be follow.

someone recently posted why can't members exchange resvs. ,
like from blt to ssr, instead of doing a waitlist? even if you could, how
many would trade their blt to ssr? as the numbers increased &
the different resorts that are available, it isn't hard to imagine the
benefit between resorts? so going resales, shouldn't
always be just about the "cheapest" or it will likely become a future/
ongoing problem. i think some of the projections being made are
very likely based on dvc & owners' needs. resales are not directly
related to the dvc system, so they are less likely to have their needs
figured in. and that is where i think some here are projecting
where dvc are going to make the most negative changes. logically,
that makes the most sense.

we went with blt, because that is where we want to be. we don't
ever plan to stay @ ssr or okw. @ the time, we debated akv vs. blt...,
and for our our reasons, blt became our choice. next, was getting
the points we needed based on when we would go & the type of
room.

so going resales was not for us. but we're just one family. for others,
it might be the best option pending on what they need, & how
they do disney vacations. [ for us , it came down to less than $100
a year over ssr, & us getting what we want. very easy.]

what i think disney dvc is different than all the rest, is the parks &
the added incomes dvc members brings them. i think seldom dvc
members go just for the room. [ we do dcl cruises , go to the
parties , & all the parks, & buy disney stuff. and we don't eat "in".]


good luck, but i wouldn't rely just on it. deciding what you need,
should include talking with all your family members. i can't speak
for anyone else, but we considered this a major purchase.

 

[SSR]

[ for us , it came down to less than $100
a year over ssr, & us getting what we want. very easy.]

Just out of curiosity, what's the math on this? All things (points, etc.) being equal, I'm scratching my head how you bought BLT direct and it only cost you $100 more a year than if you bought the same (presumably) number of points at SSR? If I'm missing something, I apologize. I just don't follow the math on that.

 

[bom_noite]

Jim, the rumors and credibility thereof that suggest a change to differentiate resale from retail points are mounting. I have a credible source who's saying the same. That source has suggested that current contracts would be grandfathered and that resale buyers will be limited to direct DVC options only. No way to tell where this will fall until it happens but I think there's enough smoke now to think something will happen along these lines. They could also limit banking, borrowing and transfers as well as institute nickel and dime fees for non qualified contracts. Likely one of the biggest issues for those who own already, is this would likely limit the ability to combine contracts going forward.

A reliable source told me the same, but, told me it would not be grandfathered.

The spread between resale and WDW prices are so large it has to be killing sales. Four or 5 years ago that was not the case - why not buy through DVC as their perks could even up the score somewhat.

 

[disneynutz]

Jim Lewis, President of the DVC is also the Chairman of the American Resort Development Association, a timeshare lobbying group. It's a pretty sure bet that the DVC will adopt policies that are standard in the industry. They have already started with the offering of fixed weeks in Hawaii.

Bill

 

[Dean]

A reliable source told me the same, but, told me it would not be grandfathered.

The spread between resale and WDW prices are so large it has to be killing sales. Four or 5 years ago that was not the case - why not buy through DVC as their perks could even up the score somewhat.

I would think they have to grandfather existing sales, not that it's legally required, just that it would create so much confusion and turmoil as to not be worth it. The only other alternative would be to essentially grandfather no one including existing retail owners but allow an opt in for a fee or additional purchase or to allow those who bought resale to convert to retail in the same manner. I'd think that approach (grandfathering no one) was only feasible if they were adding to the options, not taking away. Now what I could see happening would be a change with little or no notice while grandfathering existing completed contracts but not those already in the works. As I wrote on another thread recently, I'd be writing wording into any resale contract covering this issue. Not because I'd be worried about losing cash type exchange options but because they could differentiate certain fees or even non home resort options if they chose.

I wonder if the "no grandfathering" you were told was directed at sales in the pipeline rather than those already owning.

Jim Lewis, President of the DVC is also the Chairman of the American Resort Development Association, a timeshare lobbying group. It's a pretty sure bet that the DVC will adopt policies that are standard in the industry. They have already started with the offering of fixed weeks in Hawaii.

Bill

Careful, when I've suggested such things over the years I've been accused of heresy. Realistically DVC has to change to be sustainable long term when you look at dues AND sales.

 

[rsimon]

First of all, congratulations on not falling for the "weasel-speak!"

The offer of "...a years points" is a scam.

They are offering you a March Use Year. Use Year means the points can be used from the begining of March until the last day of February the following year. Currently that contract is in it's March 2010 UY and the points they are "giving you" are really simply the points you are paying for, and 2/3 of their useful life has already gone by. They're not giving you a thing; they're selling you a used car at a new car price!

In addition, you will be paying dues on those points between your closing and December 31. There's nothing sneaky about that; it's the proper way to apportion dues, but it will be an expenditure of +/- $150 for which you will receive absolutely nothing if you don't visit again prior to Dec 31, 2010.

March 2010 points have to be banked by the end of October or they expire on Feb 28, 2011. I assume they offered you an extension of that banking deadline so that those points would have some value to you. If not, those points will have zero value to you unless you use them by Feb 28, 2011. Even with the banking extension, those points have nothing like the value of a full year's points that you could use or bank as your needs dictate.

You're looking at an expenditure of approximately $27,000, so I would take your time, do your research, and make a careful decision away from the pixie-dust environment you are in right now.

For example, you mentioned Saratoga Springs, saying they wouldn't even discuss SSR with you. You can buy 250 SSR points RESALE for about $10,000 LESS than the direct BLT price...and you can buy Old Key West for less than that and own at a resort with the largest villas and the lowest points cost per night.

There are numerous contracts on the resale market for both of those resorts, so you should have no problem finding a size and UY that fits your needs.

Take your time...do your homework. Good luck!

I just wanted to clarify something that you said which is not correct. You said that you have to pay maintenance fees on those 2010 points that are "given" to you, and that is not correct. They will not start charging you maintenance fees until the 2011 use year. We've been through this process many times and each time it is the same.

Also, on those 2010 points, they will allow you to bank them into 2011 even after the normal deadline. So they can be banked into 2011 and used then if you don't have a vacation planned before your March use year.

I don't believe calling these points a "scam" is accurate, as they really are free to use and you aren't paying maintenance fees for them. They have real value that you wouldn't have otherwise.

If anything, I think it is a bigger issue that point costs are not depreciated as their life is used up. BLT points cost more today than they did when they first went on sale, but the total number of years is less now.

Good luck to the OP. Take your time, and make sure you get correct information before you make up your mind.

 

[Dean]

I just wanted to clarify something that you said which is not correct. You said that you have to pay maintenance fees on those 2010 points that are "given" to you, and that is not correct. They will not start charging you maintenance fees until the 2011 use year. We've been through this process many times and each time it is the same.

Also, on those 2010 points, they will allow you to bank them into 2011 even after the normal deadline. So they can be banked into 2011 and used then if you don't have a vacation planned before your March use year.

I don't believe calling these points a "scam" is accurate, as they really are free to use and you aren't paying maintenance fees for them. They have real value that you wouldn't have otherwise.

If anything, I think it is a bigger issue that point costs are not depreciated as their life is used up. BLT points cost more today than they did when they first went on sale, but the total number of years is less now.

Good luck to the OP. Take your time, and make sure you get correct information before you make up your mind.

While DVC has had specials at times where you got free points for the rest of the year, however, here's the standard for when dues start on points you're buying retail.

Dues start and are prorated from:

1. The date you sign if current points are available.
2. The first day of the next UY if not getting current UY points.
3. The date the "unit" comes on board and is available for occupancy if later than the above.

Then the inherent value really depends on how the points work on the up front option, cost, inherent value/demand of a given resort, likely dues over the life of a resort and years remaining. For example, the difference in value for the same resort with all parameters the same except UY can be quite a chunk, esp if you can use the points. Here's an example. Compare buying BLT Dec UY and getting 2009 points (which are bankable up until 30 Nov) to a Feb, 2011 UY. The difference is essentially the value of one years points, at least $10 a point. Plus in this example and this time of year, the difference in dues for the 2 scenarios is almost nothing.

 

[rsimon]

While DVC has had specials at times where you got free points for the rest of the year, however, here's the standard for when dues start on points you're buying retail.

Dues start and are prorated from:

1. The date you sign if current points are available.
2. The first day of the next UY if not getting current UY points.
3. The date the "unit" comes on board and is available for occupancy if later than the above.

Then the inherent value really depends on how the points work on the up front option, cost, inherent value/demand of a given resort, likely dues over the life of a resort and years remaining. For example, the difference in value for the same resort with all parameters the same except UY can be quite a chunk, esp if you can use the points. Here's an example. Compare buying BLT Dec UY and getting 2009 points (which are bankable up until 30 Nov) to a Feb, 2011 UY. The difference is essentially the value of one years points, at least $10 a point. Plus in this example and this time of year, the difference in dues for the 2 scenarios is almost nothing.

We must have been lucky then because we have several contracts, and they all were the same as far as when the maintenance fees started. Never had to pay maintance fees until the first full use year started.

 

[Dean]

We must have been lucky then because we have several contracts, and they all were the same as far as when the maintenance fees started. Never had to pay maintance fees until the first full use year started.

All of your purchases must have been in the last 2-3 years when they've tended to have such specials. However, you may have paid them as part of the closing and didn't realize it.

 

[Bill K]

Good luck on your decision.

 

[honeymo78]

We must have been lucky then because we have several contracts, and they all were the same as far as when the maintenance fees started. Never had to pay maintance fees until the first full use year started.

We just purchased BWV in early Oct. We received Dec 2009 points and were able to immediately bank those points since we couldn't use them in 2 months and it was well past our banking deadline. We owe prorated dues on those points for the rest of 2010 - just received the info on what we owe for 92 days worth of points use. This was the same deal offered, no matter which resort we chose to buy (new or old).

 

[Tamar]

When I bought an add on of 50 points in October 2008 that had a Dec UY, they immediately banked the 2007 points into the next year for me. Not sure if it still works that way.

 

[jodifla]

Jim, the rumors and credibility thereof that suggest a change to differentiate resale from retail points are mounting. I have a credible source who's saying the same. That source has suggested that current contracts would be grandfathered and that resale buyers will be limited to direct DVC options only. No way to tell where this will fall until it happens but I think there's enough smoke now to think something will happen along these lines. They could also limit banking, borrowing and transfers as well as institute nickel and dime fees for non qualified contracts. Likely one of the biggest issues for those who own already, is this would likely limit the ability to combine contracts going forward.

One thing I wonder about on those lines is how it would change the equation if people thought they couldn't sell it for a decent price. That's one of the things DVCers thought about before I bought, that I could sell it if financial fortunes changed and not take too big of a hit.

 

[JimMIA]

One thing I wonder about on those lines is how it would change the equation if people thought they couldn't sell it for a decent price. That's one of the things DVCers thought about before I bought, that I could sell it if financial fortunes changed and not take too big of a hit.

That's a good point, but I don't think it will affect very many direct sales.

From what I've seen, most direct purchasers of any timeshare (not just DVC) are not aware that a resale market even exists. And fewer take the time or initiative to Google DVC and come up with the DIS DVC forums, so their only source of information is a DVC timeshare salesperson.

The DVC timeshare sales personnel will continue to tell people they can sell at a profit, or very little loss, because DVC has ROFR. And the prospective buyers will continue to accept that fairy tale, not knowing the real story or having any unbiased source of information.

If you think I'm wrong, look at all the threads on other websites (TUG, et al) from people who spent $20,000-40,000 for some timeshare a year ago and now realize they can only get $1 for it on eBay.