At My Wit's End w/9yo DD

[va32h]

I am quite desperate for help. My 9 yo dd has, quite simply, become a mean little girl. She speaks to her brother in a hateful tone of voice, is rude and bossy to her friends, and acts like the entire world is out to get her. If she is punished for anything, she yells and cries about how everything is her fault and she gets punished for everything and we are all unfair.

"That's not fair" is her favorite whine.

She used to be a sweet, generous girl - I am shocked and even ashamed sometimes at her behavior. The way she treats her brother is truly awful. He can be a pest sometimes, but she just starts yelling at him from the moment he gets up.

It seems all I do all day is argue with her, about everything - when she gets up, what she wears, what we do that day - and she argues, complains, and talks back at every little thing.

I have lost my temper with her, which I know is not setting a good example, and certainly didn't help the situation. I've tried being sympathetic, and giving her a hug, but after a few minutes, my sympathy vanishes, because she will start in about how her life was ruined when her brother was born, that she gets blamed for everything because she is the oldest.

Her brother was born 5 years ago. She needs to get over it already. She hasn't been an only child for a very long time, and I am getting very tired of hearing that her life is "ruined".

All this behavior has been going on for about five months. She has always complained about her brother, but she is getting steadily nastier.

Does anyone have suggestions about how I can turn this behavior around? I promise to listen to your input and try anything. I just want my sweet little girl back.

 

[Bob Slydell]

You don't have a picture of her in the bathtub, do you?

 

[cynsaun]

You don't have a picture of her in the bathtub, do you?

Seriously, my youngest is going to be 9 and my oldest is 12. They can just be SO hateful at times, I just don't know what to do.

This tween age is really hard. Have you tried taking away things? For example, I have resorted to banishing them from the pool if they fight. This seems to be the only thing that really works.

Good luck. I wish I could give you more help!

 

[Christine]

My DD has similar issues with her younger brother (they are 3.5 years apart). Believe it or not, she is much better now (she is almost 14) then she was during the ages of 10-12. She was horrible. The worst part was is that they were in a daycare situation. She would be verbally abusive to him and bully him and the other kids would take their "cues" from her and they would all gang up on him. We've had to really come down on her for it but, only lately and with maturity on her part, has she started acting better towards him.

She does not have to much of the other things going on as you describe. Honestly, (and I really hate to give this reply) but it sounds like she could benefit from some counseling.

My DS (10) is part of a group therapy session due to another unrelated incident. I am amazed at the amount of adolescents coming in there for stuff like social skills awareness, life skills, or just dealing with stuff at home. Apparently we are not alone!!

 

[snoopy]

One thing I have learned is arguing with my kids gives them an upperhand. Hard as it may be, you cannot try to reason with your child or defend your position. Sometimes it requires being a broken record and repeating the same "No, and my decision is final" over and over until the child learns he/she cannot argue with him/herself.

Kids go through all sort of phases, and sadly, they don't remain the complaint, always sweet little guys like we like to remember them as. Consistency is the key, stick to your guns, even when you have a child who likes to argue, and you should come out of it relatively unscathed. Good luck!

 

[NMAmy]

I'm so sorry--I've been through this with my dd around that age. She was hateful and nasty 80% of the time. Everything I did was wrong. Unfortunately, I don't have any advice for you--we just kind of muddled through it. I just continued to enforce rules and structure while trying to let her have some independence in things like what she wore, what she was allowed to do, etc. It's a really difficult balance.

The good news is that, now that she's 14, while we still have our moments, the majority of the time she's back to that loving, happy girl she used to be. She even calls me Mommy in front of her friends. That said, she did get upset with me yesterday because, after a week of nagging, I took her to get her hair cut. She told the stylist how much she wanted cut off and then was upset with how it turned out. Oddly, this became my fault because I didn't override her with the stylist and tell her not to cut off so much.

Puberty is just a pain in the patootie for daughters AND moms.

 

[CEDmom]

Without knowing what your family life is like I'd say this is a cry for attention gone wild. When this 1st started did you try to console her and give her extra attention? If so it sounds like she's gotten into a bad habit of using bad behavior to get attention or what she wants. I'd try ignoring as much it as possible. When she starts I'd say something like "I'm sorry you're having a bad day but your behavior is unacceptable". When she starts picking on her brother to an excessive degree I'd have her go to her room. Try to do all this calmly so she doesn't get the upper hand. Once she spends a few days mostly in her room she'll come around. You may have to hire a babysitter while your DD stays in her room and DS & you go do things. Good luck.

 

[TiggerPiglet]

OMG, you are describing my 9 year old DD to a T. Same thing, she was a sweet caring loving girl and now everything is a battle. I try to let some things slide as I know she is going through those dreaded tween years, but I do lose my temper a lot, which I know I shouldn't do, but boy is it hard when they push your buttons. I also have a 5 year old DD, who my 9 year old tells me I love more since I'm ALWAYS punishing her. I try to explain to her, if she feels I'm punishing her more, maybe it's because she is doing things to be punished for, but of course that sets her off that I'm just being unfair and I don't understand. My friends tell me there is a light at the end of the tunnel and most girls go through this. I guess it's like a battle for them to be grown up, but yet they still want to be a little girl and of course those dreaded hormones. I just hope it's over soon and to think I get to go through this again in a few years with my younger one

 

[DisMN]

You don't have a picture of her in the bathtub, do you?

OMG


You're muddling through a mine field right now......I DO think she's behaving quite normally for a girl her age. Some of it is peer related, she gets her attitude from her peers, some of it might be hormonally charged.....all sorts of other things going on in her 9 year old world. I have absolutely no advice for you except to find moments to re-charge your patience when she's poking sticks at you. A quiet soak in the tub (no photos please! LMAO) might recharge your batteries.

Good luck. My heart goes out to you.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

I have read a couple of books about birth order and sibling spacing. They have said that if there are 4+ years between children the oldest tends to function like/have characteristics of an only. While 4 years may not seem like a lot it truely is. She got all of the attention for 4 years. Then little Brother came and invaded her space. She probably resents him and being a 9 year old doesn't help. Expecting her to "get over it" isn't going to do any good. She has feelings/ needs that need to be addressed. It sounds like she is asking for help in the wrong way. She may need counseling to help address these issues.

I am keeping all of these things in the back of my mind for DD. She and her Brother will be 4 years apart. The developmental gap is so big in those 4 years. They really have nothing in common at this young age.

 

[Jennasis]

It's a phase...for now. Unchecked, this "phase" may very well become permanent. You DD is crying out for attention...so let her have some...from a qualified child therapist.

It's almost a shame that "spanking" is practically a crime. I'm 28 and was spanked from time to time. Never for the same infraction as I always learned my lesson the first time.

 

[DisMN]

It's a phase...for now. Unchecked, this "phase" may very well become permanent. You DD is crying out for attention...so let her have some...from a qualified child therapist.

It's almost a shame that "spanking" is practically a crime. I'm 28 and was spanked from time to time. Never for the same infraction as I always learned my lesson the first time.

I agree, a quick butt paddle really opens up the ears of a misbehaving child doesn't it? LOL

 

[Twinkles6892]

My little brother is 8 and I'm 15. From the day he was born he got all the attention. I'm still not over it. I know my parents love me, but my mom cottles Jack and calls him her little baby boy and stuff, that's all I want. She says that she doesn't do it to me cause when she does I say "Moooooooom". But I'm 15, it's not supposed to be "cool" to have mommy hold you. But that's all I want. Try spending some time with her just you two. No little brother. Not even a mention of the little brother. See how she acts then

 

[chrissyk]

No advice here, but my mom says that I was a terrible child between 8-9. I don't remember this too well, but I do remember resenting my sister. We get along just fine now, so there is hope. The best I can figure is that I was starting puberty around that age and that caused the bad behavior. I remember my mom calling me "negative" a lot around that timeframe. That didn't help, I'm sure!

 

[va32h]

Thank you, everyone, for the advice.

She did see the school counselor for awhile, because when dh was deployed last year, she would often get very sad. I can check our insurance directory and see if they have any family or child therapists. It would probably do us all good to see a family counselor, as we are all adjusting to my husband's return from a very long deployment overseas. Now this behavior started before he came home...so I don't know how much it has to do with it.

I admit, I don't give her as much attention as I used to - and I do expect a lot of her sometimes, as the oldest. My son is going to visit his auntie in a couple of weeks, so I can plan some "girl stuff" just for us.

I just get so upset when she says mean things to/about her brother. He loves her very much - if I buy him anything at the store, he insist we get something for her too. If you give him a popsicle or a drink, he'll ask for one for her.

And she has no problem with her baby sister...ironically, the baby adores her big brother, who considers HER a pest. All the love flows uphill in this house, apparently!

We don't have a pool - but I could ground her from riding her bike...or I could threaten to not buy her the new Harry Potter book. We are both big HP fans, and I made matching Gryffindor uniforms for us to wear to the midnight release party for the next book.

I am not "against" spanking, but I do think 9 is too old to spank; she was spanked, when she was smaller.

Anyway, thank you for all your advice - it is good to know that girls can go through this phase and return to their normal state - I was seriously afraid I was going to have a teen terror on my hands.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

I think having your DH gone and now back is probably a big issue with her. I'm sure you didn't/don't have a lot of time for her with 3 kids on your own. Maybe now that DH is back you could do special girl time with her. It could be something as simple as taking her out for a bagel in the mornig before you go grocery shopping. Do you have a Borders or Barnes n' Noble with a cafe? My 3 year old and I go to Borders for a cinnamon roll and juice some mornings. We both love the bookstore so it is special time for us. And, growing up, I loved going grocery shopping with my Mom. It was time the 2 of us had together w/o my younger siblings around.

Just some suggestions.

 

[MerryPoppins]

Check with your library. Ours all carry Jim Fay's Love and Logic books about parenting. They are so helpful. Sounds like something that might work for you. He says that punishing isn't the answer. Instead you choose natural consequences. Works like a charm.

And my answer for "not fair" is that life isn't fair. I just agree with them and tell them to make the best of it. Get used to the lemons that life throws you and make lemonade.

 

[poohandwendy]

One thing I have learned is arguing with my kids gives them an upperhand. Hard as it may be, you cannot try to reason with your child or defend your position. Sometimes it requires being a broken record and repeating the same "No, and my decision is final" over and over until the child learns he/she cannot argue with him/herself.

This is so true...

Another thing I wanted to bring up, if it hasn't been mentioned:

She could be starting to get hormonal. 9 or 10 seems to be when many girls start the beginnings of hormonal changes. And the attitude problems seem to remain until after they are having regular menstral periods. (hate to say it)

Either way, that doesn't solve anything. One thing I did to curb the attitude with my DD when she was that age is that she had to go to her room when she was disrespectful and stay there until her attititude changed. She was not allowed to talk to anyone until he 'put on her happy face'.

Honestly, this really worked with her. I was very consistent with it and she was sent there many times, but the message that ''disrespect will not be tolerated' got through. The way I looked at it, she can be pouty/angry/mean all she wants, but we don't have to be subjected to it. She liked it at first and then it wasn't so fun anymore, being the one who was shunned.

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

I don't have a 9yr old at the present time- but I kinda do. My oldest has just passed the 9yr old stage but she's ADHD/ODD w/SID tendencies... so she's still like an 8/9yr old atleast IMO.

All the love flows uphill in this house, apparently!

Uh, same here!!!! 3 kids and exactly like you described... youngest daughter adores older brother who thinks she's a pest... (almost 3yrs between them) and son adores older sister who thinks he's a pest (4yrs between them). They used to get along so well.

It is a lot to do with hormones and being the oldest and such. But what bothers me is that my son has learned some of the "nastiness" behavior (that his older sister exhibits towards him) and recently has started to treat his younger sister the same way. It's all verbal here (as I think the OP described also?) -we're a verbal family I guess. But I get so sick of the arguing and trying to "correct" the younger sibling and ofcourse the younger thinks they are right and on and on and on until I'm about to scream. Yes, most of this happens when I'm driving or in any other way incapicated at the time. I'm trying to nip it in the bud- it's been especially bad this summer (and we're only in the 2nd week of our "summer break" from school).

For the oldest as the OP described (which is how my oldest can be at times) I take away things and privileges. It seems to be keeping it to a minimum ESPECIALLY now that they aren't in school and all the other activities they had (you know- like Girl Scouts, soccer, running team, awanas). Now there is so much time- she really really DOES NOT want her gameboy, tv, etc. taken away... and really gets bored when it is taken away. So that seems to be helping recently... (been doing that with all of them really- but I'm only speaking about the oldest since she's the closest in age to and matches the description of the child in the OP of this thread) sorry I can't offer more advice but you know, I'll be watching this thread for any wisdom on it. LOL

 

[Disney Doll]

Oh for crying out loud, every kid doesn't need "counselling" for every little thing. Of course she's pissed that her baby brother came along and "ruined" everything!!! He did, for God's sakes. She was the focus of everyone's attention untl that day 5 years ago when he was born. But, newsflash...that's life!!!!!

I'd say make your decisions with regard to her, state your decision, don't argue, just repeat your original decision, and if she continues to pester you, send her to her room. This must all be done calmly and rationally. And "because I said so" is a perfectly acceptable response. Kids need to learn that there are always going to be people that they have to listen to, whether they agree with them or not, because those people have more power. She's getting out of control because you are allowing her to take control. You are the adult. You have no need to explain your reasons for anything to a 9 year old. Period. Her self-esteem will be fine. As a matter-of-fact, it sounds like she needs a little less of it right now!