At Grand Californian now, going on DVC tour tomorrow...

[dmunsil]

But it does! If you look at their DVC purchase, dues, and MF as sunk costs that they've already invested in order to save money overall on Disney vacations, then using those points to stay onsite at DLH or PPH is absolutely a cost-saving measure--they'll be staying for free!

If they rented their points via David's, they'd make more money than the rack rate for those rooms at DLH. So it really doesn't make financial sense. Those points have a fair market value that they can tap of $11/pt. The cash price of a room compared to the point costs through DVC net out to around $9-10/pt. And I emphasize, that's rack rate. If you can find a discount, that's even more money in your pocket.

The key thing to keep in mind is that points are readily convertible to cash. So using your points to buy DLH rooms or cruises is actually costing you cash money. It's primarily a convenience. Instead of having to deal with the process of renting and separately booking a hotel room, you just book the hotel room with your points.

 

[Breyean]

But it does! If you look at their DVC purchase, dues, and MF as sunk costs that they've already invested in order to save money overall on Disney vacations, then using those points to stay onsite at DLH or PPH is absolutely a cost-saving measure--they'll be staying for free! If they did that with all of their points, every year, I agree that it would not necessarily be the best way to find bargain accommodations at DLR. But to do it once, if they couldn't get into VGC, is perfectly viable and indeed a potentially strong argument for buying direct.

If they are owners at VGC and for whatever reason can't get in there, believe me, they will have no problem at all renting/transferring those points at a premium price on their own. For other resorts' points, I'd do David's, but VGC fetches more than he offers, and by a couple of dollars/point.

So they are not really staying "for free!" if the use points for a stay at PP or DLH. They are paying a premium, in fact, because the points charts at those resorts are becoming less and less DVC friendly each year, causing them to use even more points which could be easily rented out and then some of those proceeds used to book those rooms for cash.

 

[PCMama]

Oh you guys are all so helpful! This information was wonderful. Unfortunately, due to it being our last full day here and a list a mile long of all we wanted to do, we can to call and cancel because the timing was just awful for what we wanted to do - and knowing we weren't going to buy seemed like 2 hours away from a dip in the pool and collecting some more FPs! So I guess our emotions took over in that.

It looks like I do have a lot more to learn - as I didn't realize that you could still buy any resort from Disney, pending availability I see. Thanks for that piece of helpful information as we are fans of BCV and VWL (go figure, we love the woodsy, lodgy atmosphere! ) And DH is one of those people with a weird love for OKW.

Regarding Aulani, I just don't see us visiting Hawaii. I would love to, but for now, DH doesn't have much desire to. I've been twice before and loved it, as a kid, and later as teen. I think when we do go, it would be a one time thing, and probably when we have kids, and they're older. (I really have to laugh reading that as over the past 5 years I've made a lot of, "Oh, we'll never be able to do that..." type statements, only to do and then exceed them...)

Thanks for the tip about the thread where people discuss getting into VGC at 7 months out. I will have to look into that. I do see the allure of knowing that you do in fact have a room, instead of waiting for those 4 months. Also, thanks for the poster who pointed out that they go for long weekends and don't need all the amenities like kitchen/laundry. That is an excellent point as we love to eat in the park.

We love staying here and we are so sad to leave. We fit into that crowd that swears by staying on property for the true experience (Early entry, entrance into DCA from the hotel, atmosphere, no need to take a tram, bus, shuttle or car anywhere...). And when I look at what we paid for 3 nights, I can't help but think we are making a mistake if we don't consider the option of buying...

Watch out DVC experts...you might have a considering DVC newbie full of questions posting all kinds of things soon (but don't worry, I'll try to keep the dumb questions to a minimum)!

Thanks again, everyone!

Good luck on your research and maybe purchase! Don't write out aulani for kids one day. The great thing about aulani is that the room includes childcare at no additional cost for kids age three and up, and the pools and beach is kids friendly. Swim vests are included and you cab check out beach toys as long as you are a guest at no additional charge as well as use the beach chairs and umbrellas. If you do a Hawaii vacation with little ones aulani is the way to go

 

[bumbershoot]

If they rented their points via David's, they'd make more money than the rack rate for those rooms at DLH. So it really doesn't make financial sense. Those points have a fair market value that they can tap of $11/pt. The cash price of a room compared to the point costs through DVC net out to around $9-10/pt. And I emphasize, that's rack rate. If you can find a discount, that's even more money in your pocket.

Onsite DLR hotel discounts have been rarer in the last couple years.

If they are doing a last-minute trip, you want them to chance the rental market rather than have the option of just doing something with their points immediately? Sure there's a great chance of the rental market working for them, but I'm not sure it can be guaranteed.



But note that I was saying it's worth knowing what you want. What I want is obviously different than what other people here want. I have maybe a 1% interest in doing anything with the rental market, even if I'm using more points than I have to. Others would have a 100% interest in it. HurleySweetie needs to know what she and her husband want and are comfortable with.

And if the simple and easy ability to book a last minute stay at PPH and DLR (the Grand might be their fave, but she did say they are *onsite* fans, not JUST GCV fans) is a pretty big difference, for a DLR-fan, between direct and resale points. It's very much worth being aware of.

 

[dmunsil]

Onsite DLR hotel discounts have been rarer in the last couple years.

If they are doing a last-minute trip, you want them to chance the rental market rather than have the option of just doing something with their points immediately? Sure there's a great chance of the rental market working for them, but I'm not sure it can be guaranteed.

Again, I'm not arguing that it isn't convenient to have an extra option for what to do with your points, but you have to be really right up against the wall before it's going to be a problem renting your points.

One of the key features of DVC is planning ahead. If you think you'll be doing a lot of last-minute stuff (or frankly any last-minute stuff) with your points, you probably shouldn't buy DVC. Most people are either going to plan their trip or rent their points at well before the 6 month mark, because the longer you wait the less is available. This goes triple for VGC.

Every year you use your points for a cruise or a non-DVC hotel is a year you're getting no financial value out of DVC. As a "Hail Mary" kind of thing because your DVC plans fell through, it's a handy option to have, and that's worth something, for sure. And if you think renting your points is something you just can't imagine doing, then that changes the equation a lot.

Were you aware that you can use a broker to rent your points? It's pretty much hassle-free. You send the broker the number of points you want to rent, and generally within a few days he sends you a note telling you what booking to make. You make the booking, and you're done. The broker handles everything else.

 

[ELMC]

But it does! If you look at their DVC purchase, dues, and MF as sunk costs that they've already invested in order to save money overall on Disney vacations, then using those points to stay onsite at DLH or PPH is absolutely a cost-saving measure--they'll be staying for free! If they did that with all of their points, every year, I agree that it would not necessarily be the best way to find bargain accommodations at DLR. But to do it once, if they couldn't get into VGC, is perfectly viable and indeed a potentially strong argument for buying direct.

You do realize that this isn't how it actually works, right? You pay the money to buy in and you pay the money for the annual maintenance fees. You can't just write it off as a sunk cost and say that your trips are free. Well you can say it, but that doesn't make it true.

 

[Iceman93]

I oversimplified it, sure, but psychologically that's pretty much how it works. Let's say somebody buys at Aulani. One year they decide they want to stay at the DLR. They try to get into the VGC but can't because of the 7-month window. So they can either pay to stay somewhere or use their points that they've already paid for. Since the points are paid for, using them to get a free hotel room at the DLH or PPH is a nice option that is not available to resale buyers.

 

[BestDadEver]

I oversimplified it, sure, but psychologically that's pretty much how it works. Let's say somebody buys at Aulani. One year they decide they want to stay at the DLR. They try to get into the VGC but can't because of the 7-month window. So they can either pay to stay somewhere or use their points that they've already paid for. Since the points are paid for, using them to get a free hotel room at the DLH or PPH is a nice option that is not available to resale buyers.

I get what your saying but people here are going to have a hard time with your use of the word "free" .

 

[Missyrose]

This may be one of the only places where I can see the convenience of being able to use your points at non-DVC resorts outweighing the option of renting out your points to pay cash for a room. Your VGC points won't fetch a premium on the rental market if there's no availability at that resort, so you'd have to rent them out for whatever the going rate is at other resorts. So if you really have no other use for your VGC points in the near future, blowing a whole bunch on a resort room is easy (but is in no way a financial value). I'm far too frugal with my points to ever think of something like that.

OP, If it were me, I'd put myself on the VGC wait list and be on the hunt for a resale contract as either could take a while to come through. Then if resale comes through, use the money you saved toward cash reservations if you can't get a villa at your home resort. If you have your wait list fulfilled first, enjoy your points and use them however you see fit. No one on the Internet can tell you what will work for you and your family. Some people find value in monetary savings, others find value in ease of use.

 

[Minniesgal]

You can get VGC direct, but the waiting list is reportedly a year or more. In that year, you could surely see a contract that was reasonable on the resale market. There are contracts available right now for VGC, and new ones come up all the time.

And, of course, the savings are considerable buying resale and the perks you would be losing not really worth anything, depending on how much you value convenience. You can rent your points through a reputable broker like David's, which is about as hassle-free as you can get, and use the cash to book a room at a hotel or a cruise or whatever, and have money left over. In some cases only a little money, but the point remains. If you had points that were bought direct and used them to take a cruise, you'd essentially be paying that extra money for the convenience of being able to make the booking in one operation. That's kind of the opposite of the value proposition of DVC.

The waitlist is nowhere near a year, we went on it in January adn were told 4-5 months and in reality it took 3.

 

[dmunsil]

The waitlist is nowhere near a year, we went on it in January adn were told 4-5 months and in reality it took 3.

Good to know! The only previous report I'd read was from someone who said they were "told" it was a year. Clearly it's not.

 

[Breyean]

Good to know! The only previous report I'd read was from someone who said they were "told" it was a year. Clearly it's not.

Things were different in January. That was before the huge direct price increase was announced at VGC (among others). That announcement caused a rush of people to add their names to the wait lists for points at the older price.

While that rush might well be over now, using January as an indicator of what the situation is like now is not valid. Heck, in January I bought VGC resale at $90/point in January, a loaded contract, and I had a choice of several at priced right around there.

Things have changed.

 

[ELMC]

I oversimplified it, sure, but psychologically that's pretty much how it works. Let's say somebody buys at Aulani. One year they decide they want to stay at the DLR. They try to get into the VGC but can't because of the 7-month window. So they can either pay to stay somewhere or use their points that they've already paid for. Since the points are paid for, using them to get a free hotel room at the DLH or PPH is a nice option that is not available to resale buyers.

Psychologically, yes. Financially, not even close. For the record, I originally suggested that the OP take a look at both direct and resale if staying at VGC was her main goal as I feel that is the one resort where buying direct has not had the value priced out of it. What I objected to were the bogus analyses and comparisons like saying that resale was the equivalent of a used car that could be a lemon or that using the points options for Disney hotels was free. Talk about the convenience, because that is a real benefit. But when you make it out to be something it's not, people coming on here for information can be misled.

I get what your saying but people here are going to have a hard time with your use of the word "free" .

What are your thoughts? Do you have a hard time with it?

 

[BestDadEver]

Psychologically, yes. Financially, not even close. For the record, I originally suggested that the OP take a look at both direct and resale if staying at VGC was her main goal as I feel that is the one resort where buying direct has not had the value priced out of it. What I objected to were the bogus analyses and comparisons like saying that resale was the equivalent of a used car that could be a lemon or that using the points options for Disney hotels was free. Talk about the convenience, because that is a real benefit. But when you make it out to be something it's not, people coming on here for information can be misled.

What are your thoughts? Do you have a hard time with it?

No I don't have a hard time with it . Obviously it's not free . Unless you are past brake even . Then it's still not free cause of dues . But it's easy to see how it can be convinced as free when no money would need to be exchange at the point of sale .

 

[dmunsil]

Since the points are paid for, using them to get a free hotel room at the DLH or PPH is a nice option that is not available to resale buyers.

Except that it is available to resale buyers; they can rent their points easily. Then they have cash they can use to book at Disneyland Hotel or any other hotel, with usually money left over for blinking Mickey hats and churros. They can book the cash room now and then rent the points later; it all nets out essentially the same.

So yes, the ability to instantly convert your points to hotel rooms or cruises without having to deal with rentals is worth something. Is it worth $40-50 per point? Man, that seems like a huge stretch.

 

[nyck]

Except that it is available to resale buyers; they can rent their points easily. Then they have cash they can use to book at Disneyland Hotel or any other hotel, with usually money left over for blinking Mickey hats and churros. They can book the cash room now and then rent the points later; it all nets out essentially the same.

So yes, the ability to instantly convert your points to hotel rooms or cruises without having to deal with rentals is worth something. Is it worth $40-50 per point? Man, that seems like a huge stretch.

IF they can get their points rented, IF they didn't wait till the last minute, and IF they have points to rent at a resort someone wants for a decent price. That sounds like a headache to me when I can pick up the phone, call MS, pay $95, and get a room in the Disney collection, concierge or DCL. Hassle free, don't have to worry about a renter contract or them trashing the place. I am not in this to make money or analyze cost, I have paid off my dvc and I plan to enjoy it. The only people I let use it besides me is close friends I trust and I charge them nothing for it if I have extra points that I will not use because I am not trying to make money.

 

[ELMC]

No I don't have a hard time with it . Obviously it's not free . Unless you are past brake even . Then it's still not free cause of dues . But it's easy to see how it can be convinced as free when no money would need to be exchange at the point of sale .

This is what I don't understand. You are agreeing with the fact that it's not free. So why don't you have a hard time with someone saying that it is?

IF they can get their points rented, IF they didn't wait till the last minute, and IF they have points to rent at a resort someone wants for a decent price. That sounds like a headache to me when I can pick up the phone, call MS, pay $95, and get a room in the Disney collection, concierge or DCL. Hassle free, don't have to worry about a renter contract or them trashing the place. I am not in this to make money or analyze cost, I have paid off my dvc and I plan to enjoy it.

With all due respect, you don't need to discredit someone else's point of view in order to make your point. Your "IFs" quite frankly are fallacious arguments. If one knows how to manage their contract then all of the things you fear have an infinitesimal chance of actually happening. You can simply say that you don't like the option of renting out your points, and that's fine, I can respect that. But your arguments against renting are way overblown to the point of being misleading.

The only people I let use it besides me is close friends I trust and I charge them nothing for it if I have extra points that I will not use because I am not trying to make money.

I always find this interesting. The psychology of owning a timeshare is fascinating to me as some people seem willing to give it away. Would you pay for your friend's vacation if you didn't own a timeshare? Timeshares have a real cost. The cost of ownership is front loaded, so even if you have reached your "break even" point, you technically still have a cost basis in those remaining years. You simply paid it up front. You also have the annual maintenance fees. I find it so interesting that people would think it crazy to call up a friend and simply give them $1,000 cash, but they have no problem letting them stay in their timeshare at no charge because it's "free" or "paid for already". I think it's either incredibly generous or incredibly foolish, depending on how you look at it.

 

[nyck]

This is what I don't understand. You are agreeing with the fact that it's not free. So why don't you have a hard time with someone saying that it is?

With all due respect, you don't need to discredit someone else's point of view in order to make your point. Your "IFs" quite frankly are fallacious arguments. If one knows how to manage their contract then all of the things you fear have an infinitesimal chance of actually happening. You can simply say that you don't like the option of renting out your points, and that's fine, I can respect that. But your arguments against renting are way overblown to the point of being misleading.

I always find this interesting. The psychology of owning a timeshare is fascinating to me as some people seem willing to give it away. Would you pay for your friend's vacation if you didn't own a timeshare? Timeshares have a real cost. The cost of ownership is front loaded, so even if you have reached your "break even" point, you technically still have a cost basis in those remaining years. You simply paid it up front. You also have the annual maintenance fees. I find it so interesting that people would think it crazy to call up a friend and simply give them $1,000 cash, but they have no problem letting them stay in their timeshare at no charge because it's "free" or "paid for already". I think it's either incredibly generous or incredibly foolish, depending on how you look at it.

My statements are overblown? That is so incredibly funny coming from you who puts down people decisions to buy direct every chance you can because you give the worst case scenarios of "what IF you get in financial distress and need to sell and you paid direct prices" or "it is financial suicide to finance a purchase like this unless it is your house or a car" is your argument. I simply state that renting points is tricky business if it isn't planned ahead of time. I never said people are FOOLISH or IRRESPONSIBLE for doing it, which is how you sound.

 

[ELMC]

My statements are overblown? That is so incredibly funny coming from you who puts down people decisions to buy direct every chance you can because you give the worst case scenarios of "what IF you get in financial distress and need to sell and you paid direct prices" or "it is financial suicide to finance a purchase like this unless it is your house or a car" is your argument. I simply state that renting points is tricky business if it isn't planned ahead of time. I never said people are FOOLISH or IRRESPONSIBLE for doing it, which is how you sound.

I am sorry that you have misinterpreted my posts to the point of feeling offended. If you read carefully, you will understand that I do not make judgments about people who choose to buy direct or buy direct and finance. I outline the pitfalls and potential problems, as well as the real costs, and trust people to make their own informed decisions. If you interpret that as my calling someone foolish or irresponsible, then that is solely your interpretation. I challenge you to find one post where I say anything close to that.

To that end, I would appreciate your not putting quotes around statements that I did not actually make, as I never said that financing a timeshare was financial suicide. With regards to the "what if" statements about having to sell, those are fact. It does happen, the only question is who is it going to happen to. The fact of the matter is that BLT, AKV and AUL purchases made direct right now experience a significant depreciation in cash value as soon as the 10 day recission period expires. That's a fact. If you buy direct and later find out that you no longer need the contract or that you can't afford the maintenance fees or monthly payments, you will lose money selling it. That's a fact. If you have a loan you will either have to come up with money in order to sell or you Disney will foreclose on the contract and you will lose everything you paid into it at that point. That's a fact. And apparently it's not something that we can point out to potential buyers without others getting offended. But if I have to choose between someone misinterpreting my posts and becoming offended and not providing the full picture to prospective buyers, I will choose the former. I would ask that you take a look at the following thread that outlines Disney's ROFR and foreclosure activity for the month of May:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3120471

As you'll see, in the month of may alone, FIFTY people had their contracts foreclosed on at BLT, AKV and SSR. That's fifty people that my information pertains directly to. The only problem is that we don't know who those people are going to be, and I highly doubt they went into the purchase saying "Oh boy, I bet this is going to blow up in my face in a few years and I'll probably end up defaulting on the loan". So I talk about the risks in as a matter of fact way as I possibly can. I apologize that you find that personally offensive or insulting.

Here's the deal. You're offended by the comments that I make pertaining to buying direct and financing. I get that. You probably chose to do that with your purchase and you feel like I'm attacking you directly. I get that as well. But I would like you to know that's simply not the case. Financing a direct DVC purchase is a risky move, and is not the most financially sound thing to do. But that doesn't mean that I'm telling you not to do it, and I certainly won't call you names if you do. I would ask that you please don't read anything into my statements other than what the words say. If I felt that you were a fool for financing a timeshare purchase, I would say that directly. But I don't. I simply feel that you are comfortable taking on more risk than I am, so that's how I state it.

 

[BestDadEver]

This is what I don't understand. You are agreeing with the fact that it's not free. So why don't you have a hard time with someone saying that it is?

With all due respect, you don't need to discredit someone else's point of view in order to make your point. Your "IFs" quite frankly are fallacious arguments. If one knows how to manage their contract then all of the things you fear have an infinitesimal chance of actually happening. You can simply say that you don't like the option of renting out your points, and that's fine, I can respect that. But your arguments against renting are way overblown to the point of being misleading.

I always find this interesting. The psychology of owning a timeshare is fascinating to me as some people seem willing to give it away. Would you pay for your friend's vacation if you didn't own a timeshare? Timeshares have a real cost. The cost of ownership is front loaded, so even if you have reached your "break even" point, you technically still have a cost basis in those remaining years. You simply paid it up front. You also have the annual maintenance fees. I find it so interesting that people would think it crazy to call up a friend and simply give them $1,000 cash, but they have no problem letting them stay in their timeshare at no charge because it's "free" or "paid for already". I think it's either incredibly generous or incredibly foolish, depending on how you look at it.

Cause I assume people have little bit of common sense to figure it out .

As to renting it is very possible that you won't be able to find someone to rent from you for what you want . Depending on how soon you realize your not going to use your points.

Not really getting why it bothers you if people shear there timeshares . I am sure people all the time share/give things with friends with value all the time .