At DLR now, a few thoughts UPDATED with additional thoughts p.2

[DangerMouse]

Yes, that's my theory too. The incremental cost of the AP is so low then why not buy an AP. If this is the case then the issue will slowly taper off at those "windfall" AP's expire during 2010. If not then chalk it up to global warming.

I agree with this, in addition to the option to make monthly installments on an AP, it was RIDICULOUSLY affordable to be a Disneyland AP holder this year.

 

[HydroGuy]

If the rates of attendance are in fact going up and down like that, then there is probably a correlation, but I do still feel that the birthday promotion HAS had an impact on attendance in general due to its success (and in turn as I mentioned earlier it has allowed for a lot more people to purchase an AP than would have previously).

I'm not trying to cause any arguments or difficulties, and I know that the original poster did not intend to insult anyone, as he noted in his initial post. However, I will say that a lot of response from people who are not SoCal residents seems to echo the perception that SoCal APs are causing all of the long lines for rides and food within the park and that if the SoCal passes were eliminated the problem would be solved (and, as I mentioned previously, most AP holders don't bother with those long lines anyway). There have been promotions and special passes for SoCal residents for YEARS. I know that they had special "seasonal passes" for us almost 25 years ago. It's not a new concept.

I just think there is more to the park's issues (such as efficiency) than just the people who are using SoCal passes to get in.

I do not think whether I or others are SoCal residents is all that relevant, but if it is I was born in SoCal and lived there for 28 years. My teen nieces have Deluxe APs and go regularly - probably once a month. I visit SoCal several times a year. It is home for me.

In previous years there were much lower number of AP holders. I do not know the numbers but I remember it was news a year or two ago when the AP numbers reach 500,000. So for many years it was much lower than that. Now it is approaching 1,000,000.

We are not talking here about whether AP holders are doing anything right or wrong. If they have APs with the paid right to visit DLR, then that is fine. What we are talking about, however, is the growth of the AP program and how it has influenced park attendance. When there are 60,000 visitors at DL and 40,000 are AP holders (as reported in October), they are influencing park attendance heavily. If you read the Al Lutz reports for the last 6 months he describes this in detail. It is not really a debatable point any more. It is a well known fact. What is debated is whether and how Disney should change the AP program or more specifically the extremely cheap SoCal APs.

 

[verenice07]

Frankly, when I come to the parks for a short time (or heck, anytime I visit the parks really) I never even bother wasting my time waiting in highly desirable lines or waiting around for parades/fireworks/shows to start (and actually if it's been too crowded we've been known to leave).

I live less than an hour from the park, and have a DAP. I usually get there early and leave before 2, and this is exactly what I do. I make the best of the FP and just ride the shortest lines. Pretty much all the passholders I know (quite a few) do the same. I always figure I can ride some other day, so it isn't worth the wait.

 

[HydroGuy]

I live less than an hour from the park, and have a DAP. I usually get there early and leave before 2, and this is exactly what I do. I make the best of the FP and just ride the shortest lines. Pretty much all the passholders I know (quite a few) do the same. I always figure I can ride some other day, so it isn't worth the wait.

I should have added earlier that no one is saying "this is what all AP holders do". I think what we are talking about is what a small percentage of AP holders do. But with the number of AP holders growing so much, that small percentage has turned into a large absolute number.

 

[nunzia]

I agree with HydroGuy. The cheap APs are indeed part of the problem. Just to give you some perspective, if I want to get a season ski pass for a local mountain (Mt. Spokane), which is just a basic place to go skiing and nothing fancy by any means (and keep in mind, the ski season is only about 3 months), it would cost me $370.

A Southern California select annual pass is only $144, and a regular one is $194......and that's for an entire year!

I mean, I get it.....it's about the bottom line (the $$$$), and the bottom line is important for any business, but those cheap APs are absolutely part of the crowd problem at DLR.

Yep..what I see happening is people getting defensive about it..logically it does swell crowds..that's why Disney does it, and of course we'd all go all the time if we lived there too. I don't know why people are getting upset..we aren't blaming the PEOPLE, but the PROGRAM is flawed. As I've said, it's way too cheap, and hopefully they will find some balance before DLR becomes a local park...no need to be all upset you lucky So Cal people..but really, you can't deny that these APs add (not TOTALLY but ADD) to the crowds. That's the point of them doing it after all....

 

[nunzia]

Yes, that's my theory too. The incremental cost of the AP is so low then why not buy an AP. If this is the case then the issue will slowly taper off at those "windfall" AP's expire during 2010. If not then chalk it up to global warming.

That's what I did..had my PH upgraded to a DAP and used my Birthday card to get it..and my birthday was ON Labor day..and I was surprised it wasn't blacked out on DAP much less any others.
And no, to the OP, no one would expect So Cal people to go less and of course I know alot of So Cal people get other passes besides the So Cal ones. Again..why are people so defensive? Nearly a million people having passes will cause bigger crowds. Again, no one here is blaming the people, or saying they shouldn't go, or don't spend any money or whatever. We are simply talking crowd size.

 

[DLR29]

That's what I did..had my PH upgraded to a DAP and used my Birthday card to get it..and my birthday was ON Labor day..and I was surprised it wasn't blacked out on DAP much less any others.
And no, to the OP, no one would expect So Cal people to go less and of course I know alot of So Cal people get other passes besides the So Cal ones. Again..why are people so defensive? Nearly a million people having passes will cause bigger crowds. Again, no one here is blaming the people, or saying they shouldn't go, or don't spend any money or whatever. We are simply talking crowd size.

This is the other way (other than buying a block out ticket) of getting into the parks on a day that is blocked out. Even if the day you attend is a block-out day, you can still upgrade your ticket to any level of AP on that day.

For example, if I had bought a 1 day 1 park ticket during the busy Christmas season. Then I entered the park and upgraded to an AP, it would technically be valid that day even if it is "blocked out".

 

[Mugglemama]

so then, it might be logical to assume that going during the summer of 2010 (when SoCal select AP's are blocked) might be a more pleasant experience than going before the block?

i'm planning a long stay at DLR (12 days) this summer (we're going to buy DAP's so we can get another trip out of them next year, too), and we can go anytime between May 23rd and August 15th. i'm now seriously considering just getting there the day after the SoCal passes are blocked.

ETA: actually, after checking the calendars, i don't think it would be wise to show up before the regular SoCal pass is blocked, either. the first full week they are blocked is the week with july 4th in it. i know the actual 4th is usually very busy, does anyone here know if that whole week is generally busy as well?

thanks for any info!

 

[DLR29]

so then, it might be logical to assume that going during the summer of 2010 (when SoCal select AP's are blocked) might be a more pleasant experience than going before the block?

i'm planning a long stay at DLR (12 days) this summer (we're going to buy DAP's so we can get another trip out of them next year, too), and we can go anytime between May 23rd and August 15th. i'm now seriously considering just getting there the day after the SoCal passes are blocked.

ETA: actually, after checking the calendars, i don't think it would be wise to show up before the regular SoCal pass is blocked, either. the first full week they are blocked is the week with july 4th in it. i know the actual 4th is usually very busy, does anyone here know if that whole week is generally busy as well?

thanks for any info!

Yes, you can assume your first point.

However, even major holidays have felt the effects of these weird crowd patterns. Believe it or not, 4th of July this past year was like a ghost town according to several sources. The week of July 4th should be a very good week to go.

 

[LavenderPeach]

so then, it might be logical to assume that going during the summer of 2010 (when SoCal select AP's are blocked) might be a more pleasant experience than going before the block?

i'm planning a long stay at DLR (12 days) this summer (we're going to buy DAP's so we can get another trip out of them next year, too), and we can go anytime between May 23rd and August 15th. i'm now seriously considering just getting there the day after the SoCal passes are blocked.

ETA: actually, after checking the calendars, i don't think it would be wise to show up before the regular SoCal pass is blocked, either. the first full week they are blocked is the week with july 4th in it. i know the actual 4th is usually very busy, does anyone here know if that whole week is generally busy as well?

thanks for any info!

We were there this year for our anniversary on July 6 and 7 (a monday and tuesday, I believe) and it was the least crowded we had seen it all year. It was even less crowded than when we went in mid May.

 

[Mugglemama]

thanks so much for your input! last time we were there was on a monday and tuesday at the very end of september, 2008. crowds were worse than we had experienced during august the year before, which really surprised us.

i also just read that disney employees can get their friends and family in for free except for a period between mid july and late august, so now i'm thinking i can schedule our trip to avoid that, too.

our visit this summer will likely be my ailing MIL's last trip to DLR, and she hasn't been there in probably 25 years. since she will have to be on a motorized chair during our visit, finding the best time crowd-wise is important for us, because it's going to really affect how good her trip can or cannot be. i'd love to make it as good as possible.

 

[knewton64]

...reading everyone's opinions about various things out in Disneyland.

BUT............


for any of you who want to read a trip report from someone who has NEVER been to Disneyland, Hollywood, Jimmy Kimmel Live, Jim Henson studios and what not, feel free to check out my below listed trip report, "If I were a Fraggle."

And yes, I would certainly love to have any of you post any suggestions on my trip report as to (for example):

1) where do I go for a rice krispy treat??
2) what's the best recommendation for food at Downtown Disney?
3)

CYA!

 

[Lostgirlz]

I went this past July 27th-30th, and it was busy honestly. Wait times for pirates exceeded 50 mins. Lines were long, and crowds were like salmon swimming up stream. It was also like that this past October, so I am not sure if there honestly is a (slow) time really anymore. I don't think it's AP's mainly who are making it so busy. I think it's also the Birthday thing I noticed MANY people with birthday buttons, so that seems to be bringing in the people. I get there at Early Entry during the week, and weekends, and I was like woah when I saw how bad the lines got at the turnstiles for even early entry.

 

[HydroGuy]

I think it's also the Birthday thing I noticed MANY people with birthday buttons, so that seems to be bringing in the people. I get there at Early Entry during the week, and weekends, and I was like woah when I saw how bad the lines got at the turnstiles for even early entry.

I would not put too much stock in birthday buttons. My niece (15) goes with teen friends about once a month and her whole group gets birthday buttons on the way in every time. For kicks. She gets no perks with it.

I have been to DLR with her and her friends a couple times and the ride CMs say "Happy Birthday" cheerfully to the first one in her group, then the second one less cheerfully, and after the third kid in a row with a birthday button they smell a rat and just stop LOL.

 

[Mugglemama]

I went this past July 27th-30th, and it was busy honestly. Wait times for pirates exceeded 50 mins. Lines were long, and crowds were like salmon swimming up stream. It was also like that this past October, so I am not sure if there honestly is a (slow) time really anymore. I don't think it's AP's mainly who are making it so busy. I think it's also the Birthday thing I noticed MANY people with birthday buttons, so that seems to be bringing in the people. I get there at Early Entry during the week, and weekends, and I was like woah when I saw how bad the lines got at the turnstiles for even early entry.

thanks for the input. ugh, now i don't know what to do. i know i'm not going to get a "slow" time to visit, because we can only visit during the summer this year. but i would like to avoid the worst weeks of the summer. i just don't know when those are!

 

[LavenderPeach]

thanks for the input. ugh, now i don't know what to do. i know i'm not going to get a "slow" time to visit, because we can only visit during the summer this year. but i would like to avoid the worst weeks of the summer. i just don't know when those are!

You're right that there really isn't much of a slow time anymore so whenever you go, make sure you're there at opening and collect FPs! Your best bet during summer is to go when the socal APs are blocked. You can see the dates on the disneyland website. Whatever you do, don't go right before or right after the blockout dates. Good luck making a decision!

 

[HydroGuy]

thanks for the input. ugh, now i don't know what to do. i know i'm not going to get a "slow" time to visit, because we can only visit during the summer this year. but i would like to avoid the worst weeks of the summer. i just don't know when those are!

You're right that there really isn't much of a slow time anymore so whenever you go, make sure you're there at opening and collect FPs! Your best bet during summer is to go when the socal APs are blocked. You can see the dates on the disneyland website. Whatever you do, don't go right before or right after the blockout dates. Good luck making a decision!

I agree with LP. And I would be careful taking any one person's report of bad crowds. Not to disrepect the previous poster, but it is not uncommon around here for two people to go on the same day and one says crowds were light and the other says crowds were heavy. It depends a lot on the individual, their expectations, their touring habits (arrive for rope drop every day or arrive an hour or two late), do they know how to use FP?, etc.

I personally was at DLR on August 5 just a week after the previous poster and crowds were not that bad and typical for summer. What does that mean? Peak lines for Space Mtn and Splash Mtn were 60-75 minutes (we used FP). Peak lines for Toy Story Mania about 40 minutes (we waited 30 late afternoon). Lines for California Screamin at 3-4 PM about 15-20 minutes. Lines for Soarin at 2PM about 60 minutes. All in all, it was busy but not insanely crowded and very manageable IMO.

If you use good touring strategies you will have a great trip in the summer - especially if you go during SoCal AP holders blockouts.

See "Getting The Most Out of a Summer Visit To DLR" www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1345319

 

[alvernon90]

I agree with LP. And I would be careful taking any one person's report of bad crowds. Not to disrepect the previous poster, but it is not uncommon around here for two people to go on the same day and one says crowds were light and the other says crowds were heavy. It depends a lot on the individual, their expectations, their touring habits (arrive for rope drop every day or arrive an hour or two late), do they know how to use FP?, etc.

I personally was at DLR on August 5 just a week after the previous poster and crowds were not that bad and typical for summer. What does that mean? Peak lines for Space Mtn and Splash Mtn were 60-75 minutes (we used FP). Peak lines for Toy Story Mania about 40 minutes (we waited 30 late afternoon). Lines for California Screamin at 3-4 PM about 15-20 minutes. Lines for Soarin at 2PM about 60 minutes. All in all, it was busy but not insanely crowded and very manageable IMO.

This is so true. In my posts, I was not talking about wait times on attractions, as we were there to take in the holiday ambiance. The lines were actually quite light in most instances (except, ironically, during magic morning). We picked our opportunities and used fastpasses, but we walked on to several rides and I don't think we waited for more than 20 minutes or so for any one ride. (Note that we skipped rides with long lines.)

To me, the crowd situation was about the "feel" of the park. Can you stroll along like you're in a park, or do you have to do a constant sutter-step because there are so many people crammed around? Can you buy a soda or snack without a long wait? Can you take a photo without people walking into the shot? Do you have to hold on to your children for dear life lest they get swept away in the crowd?

Even on that front, the days we were there were not horrible. But the days of light traffic in the parks, I think, are gone forever even if you can still enjoy days of short lines for the attractions.

 

[Mugglemama]

I agree with LP. And I would be careful taking any one person's report of bad crowds. Not to disrepect the previous poster, but it is not uncommon around here for two people to go on the same day and one says crowds were light and the other says crowds were heavy. It depends a lot on the individual, their expectations, their touring habits (arrive for rope drop every day or arrive an hour or two late), do they know how to use FP?, etc.

I personally was at DLR on August 5 just a week after the previous poster and crowds were not that bad and typical for summer. What does that mean? Peak lines for Space Mtn and Splash Mtn were 60-75 minutes (we used FP). Peak lines for Toy Story Mania about 40 minutes (we waited 30 late afternoon). Lines for California Screamin at 3-4 PM about 15-20 minutes. Lines for Soarin at 2PM about 60 minutes. All in all, it was busy but not insanely crowded and very manageable IMO.

If you use good touring strategies you will have a great trip in the summer - especially if you go during SoCal AP holders blockouts.

See "Getting The Most Out of a Summer Visit To DLR" www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1345319

thanks for the input! the ride times you mention do not seem miserable to me (of course, we'd be using FP, so we wouldn't be waiting that long, anyway).

we always get in line at the gate 30 minutes before opening, but the last time we did that (september 29th and 30th - a monday & a tuesday) last year, there were already TONS of people in line. that was the first time we'd had that problem. even the year before, when we'd gone in august, getting into line at the gates half an hour before opening put us near the front. it takes us 15 minutes to get from the parking structure to the tram, and 15 minutes to get on the tram and make it to the gates. the parking structure only opens an hour before park opening, is that correct? any advice on how one of us could get into line earlier, even if we have to use the parking structure (my MIL will have to be driven in, there's no way she could walk from the hotel and then back again at night)?

To me, the crowd situation was about the "feel" of the park. Can you stroll along like you're in a park, or do you have to do a constant sutter-step because there are so many people crammed around? Can you buy a soda or snack without a long wait? Can you take a photo without people walking into the shot? Do you have to hold on to your children for dear life lest they get swept away in the crowd?

you're right about this. i don't want to be packed in there like sardines, especially because we have small-ish children to keep hold of. my youngest will be nearly 6 when we go, so we're not going with toddlers or anything, and that helps (no stroller this time, woohoo!). but for the first few days of our trip, my MIL will be with us and she will need to ride around on one of those power chairs, most likely (i know she doesn't want to, but i just don't see how she's going to manage much walking at all, honestly).

we can only go in the summertime. well, let me think about that. i mean, maybe i can get her to take my nieces out of school for a week (my in-laws are raising their 2 grandaughters) instead. she might consider it.

any suggestions then as to what 2 weeks, between mid-May and mid-August might be the best time to visit, crowd-wise???

 

[HydroGuy]

we always get in line at the gate 30 minutes before opening, but the last time we did that (september 29th and 30th - a monday & a tuesday) last year, there were already TONS of people in line.

Yes, DLR had a very successful HalloweenTime promotion this year and from all accounts it was more crowded than in the past.

it takes us 15 minutes to get from the parking structure to the tram, and 15 minutes to get on the tram and make it to the gates. the parking structure only opens an hour before park opening, is that correct? any advice on how one of us could get into line earlier, even if we have to use the parking structure (my MIL will have to be driven in, there's no way she could walk from the hotel and then back again at night)?

My understanding is that on Magic Mornings the parking structure opens 90 minutes before normal park openinng and 60 minutes before park opening on other mornings.

If we have to use the parking structure - which we only do on day trips - otherwise we get a walking distance hotel - we drop off the entire group at the Harbor entrance and then I park the car and join them in line. There is a parking lot there you can pull into and make the drop. We did this in August. We drove from Riverside 40 miles away on a Wednesday, and with the traffic uncertainties we left extra early and in fact arrived at DLR at about 7:10AM on a day when DL opened at 8AM. I dropped everyone off at Harbor, parked the car, and had good luck with parking location and tram timing and was back to join the group by 7:30.

thanks for the input! the ride times you mention do not seem miserable to me (of course, we'd be using FP, so we wouldn't be waiting that long, anyway).

we always get in line at the gate 30 minutes before opening, but the last time we did that (september 29th and 30th - a monday & a tuesday) last year, there were already TONS of people in line. that was the first time we'd had that problem. even the year before, when we'd gone in august, getting into line at the gates half an hour before opening put us near the front. it takes us 15 minutes to get from the parking structure to the tram, and 15 minutes to get on the tram and make it to the gates. the parking structure only opens an hour before park opening, is that correct? any advice on how one of us could get into line earlier, even if we have to use the parking structure (my MIL will have to be driven in, there's no way she could walk from the hotel and then back again at night)?