Article: Is Disney Dissing the Disabled?

[Robbi]

Would you agree that using the Fastpass line for every ride greatly decreased your wait vs. Stand by or waiting for a Fastpass return? Would the use of GAC allow you to ride several "headliner" attractions in a short period of time vs Standby or waiting for Fastpass?

No, I wouldn't say the GAC allowed us to ride the headliners in a short period of time. Walks that might take other families 10 minutes could take us 45 minutes or longer. Then mealtimes could take hours. Before FP return times changed, we never used the GAC because we could return to a ride any time after the time stated. If distractions took us beyond the stated time, it wasn't a problem. Once the return times were enforced, we needed the GAC.

 

[OurBigTrip]

The thing is either you don't or won't understand that some children with autism have a hard time waiting for long periods of time. They don't understand. I think that if your child had this syndrome, you might be more understanding. No one thought, "Hey, I hope my child is autistic so we can get a GAC!

Of course no one hopes for that, but many people sure didn't mind abusing the situation at WDW once it arose.

We never moved to the front of any line with the GAC. We went through the FP line. Even at Haunted Mansion when there was an alternate entrance, we never went to the front of the line. We merged with the regular line. You forgetting or maybe you don't know that those of us who had to use the GAC missed a lot of the neat features along the way.
When we use the GAC, we don't see the pre show or the interactive line for HM. I'm sure there are other attractions with cool things to see while in line, we've never seen those except in pictures.

I'm not doubting for a second that you were not one of the abusers - I'm sure you weren't. That doesn't mean it wasn't happening.

As for missing the interactive parts of the ride, unfortunately, that's the choice you made when you decided to use the GAC. You traded (most likely, maybe not) the interactive parts of the ride for a shorter wait time.

No one here said that your child does not deserve a good time at WDW. The thing that's hard to understand is why you begrudge some disabled kids a little perk that allowed them to have a good time.

The amount of time that we wasted in long lines due to the "little perk" diminished the good time that my daughter (and other guests) had. Sure, we had wonderful vacations, but of course they were negatively impacted by people abusing the GAC.

Oh and as for riding something multiple times in a row, we've not done that either. I can see how others might though because kids with autism get very focused on something in particular. If it happens to be a ride at WDW, then it doesn't bother me if they ride it multiple times.

In other words, they want to ride it multiple times...not "need" to ride it, but "want" to ride it. Guess what - so do all the other kids! But if they want to do it, they have to wait in the line again. And I can see why it wouldn't bother you, because you're not waiting in the hour long line waiting to ride it once.

I'm all for reasonable accommodations for anyone with a disability. But the GAC offered much more than reasonable, it offered special treatment that made the experience of the people using it superior to the people that didn't. And IMO, that's just not right.

I had high hopes that Disney would seriously limit the abuses of the GAC, but I'm guessing that they'll cave to the pressure and continue to enhance the experience of the few at the expense of the many.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I've been reading along on these threads. It's so hard because it's an emotionally charged issue. Of course, I'm very sympathetic to people who are disabled or have disabled children. I think to suggest that someone who would like a different system ISN'T sympathetic to disabled people or doesn't care about them is really unfair. I think it's very hard to have this debate because parents come in and throw down the "you don't care about disabled kids" card and it kind of shuts the whole thing off. Who wants to go on after that? It's like saying, "I'm not racist, but...". You never come out of something like that feeling good.

The issue, as I see it, is a two pronged problem. First, there is abuse. We all know that. We know that there are people who are paying for "guides" who could obtain the GAC to ensure they toured with no wait. Do I think it's a huge problem? I don't know. The second problem, is that based on the number of people in the country who can claim disabilities, the system is being overwhelmed. It was stated that the GAC was never intended to be a line/wait by-pass but over the years that's how it evolved because it was probably easier for CM then for them to try and figure out who could REALLY wait vs those who couldn't.

Would I mind letting a disabled family go ahead of me to minimize their child's wait time so they could have a better experience in the park? Absolutely not. Would I mind waiting so a disabled child could have one more go 'round on a favorite ride without getting off? No. Of course, that means my children are a little disappointed as they wait at the front of the line for the next opportunity to get on, but I'm okay with a little disappointment. That's life.

But, if everyone is claiming a GAC, how long are the people who don't have one waiting and where's the line? I'm more than happy to wait a little longer for you (generally) to have an easier time. The problem would be waiting for extended amounts of time to accommodate people who cannot wait. At what point does it start becoming more than unfair? It doesn't make me a cruel or small person to wonder at what point is it okay for me to be unhappy that my kids aren't getting to ride as much as they could have otherwise. The idea I keep getting is that it isn't okay for people who don't claim GACs to be upset by how that affects their wait time. People are supposed to get the warm fuzzies for allowing numerous disabled people and their families to go ahead of them and if they don't like it they most not care about disabled people.

I know no one said that, but it's how it feels.

Disney is a company that uses vast amounts of technology. It seems as though it would be so much simpler to find some way to use technology, perhaps via the magic bands, to manage the flow of disabled guests who cannot wait because of their limitations.

Excellent, excellent post!

 

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . Would I mind waiting so a disabled child could have one more go 'round on a favorite ride without getting off? No . . .

1) For us, it is Yes, we would mind.
2) Why should people get a second or third ride before others get a first ride?
3) This is not called guest ACCESS, this is guest PREFERENCE.
4) The ADA prescribes access, but doesn't mandate preference.

 

[sharadoc]

And yet you make a post stating that maybe we'll all be happy when you don't go back, and that when we are all home watching our children graduate, get married and have children, you'll be sitting at home, hoping your son will say two words.

It looks as though Disney will capitulate to families like yours, and allow you to have the run of the park at everyone else's expense.

I have stated more than once that I don't think the new system is bad, it's just the sudden change from the old to the new is very scary for us. And yes, I do interpret all of the posts telling "us" to accept our lot in life, that we don't have a right to expect anything special, etc. etc. to mean that you'd rather not have me and my family there.

It's really the way of the world now. Who cares about anyone else, I better get mine, etc. etc. All I tried to do was illustrate that the rest of my life is not fair or equal, and the argument that we should all be treated equal doesn't work.

And no, I haven't attacked anyone personally unlike you have. I'm not telling you I'm entitled or want Disney to capitulate, although that's how you're interpreting it. I'm sorry if that's what you're reading, you're filtering everything I say based on your opinion of the situation in general.

 

[xipotec]

There was an article recently that said very wealthy tourist were paying for a disabled persons WDW park passes to get the GAC. It caused quite a stir.

I am sure thats extreme but the general abuse is pretty widespread. Same with the ECV. I would love to see the statistics on EVC use 10 years ago versus today.

 

[sharadoc]

... Same with the ECV. I would love to see the statistics on EVC use 10 years ago versus today.

Yay! we should just have a combined hot button thread.

My theory - this is the first "older" generation that grew up going to Disney so they feel that getting older or less mobile should not stop them from going. Same reason there are so many more handicapped parking passes. It's an active older generation - the baby boomers won't give up living.

 

[Planogirl]

I've been reading along on these threads. It's so hard because it's an emotionally charged issue. Of course, I'm very sympathetic to people who are disabled or have disabled children. I think to suggest that someone who would like a different system ISN'T sympathetic to disabled people or doesn't care about them is really unfair. I think it's very hard to have this debate because parents come in and throw down the "you don't care about disabled kids" card and it kind of shuts the whole thing off. Who wants to go on after that? It's like saying, "I'm not racist, but...". You never come out of something like that feeling good.

The issue, as I see it, is a two pronged problem. First, there is abuse. We all know that. We know that there are people who are paying for "guides" who could obtain the GAC to ensure they toured with no wait. Do I think it's a huge problem? I don't know. The second problem, is that based on the number of people in the country who can claim disabilities, the system is being overwhelmed. It was stated that the GAC was never intended to be a line/wait by-pass but over the years that's how it evolved because it was probably easier for CM then for them to try and figure out who could REALLY wait vs those who couldn't.

Would I mind letting a disabled family go ahead of me to minimize their child's wait time so they could have a better experience in the park? Absolutely not. Would I mind waiting so a disabled child could have one more go 'round on a favorite ride without getting off? No. Of course, that means my children are a little disappointed as they wait at the front of the line for the next opportunity to get on, but I'm okay with a little disappointment. That's life.

But, if everyone is claiming a GAC, how long are the people who don't have one waiting and where's the line? I'm more than happy to wait a little longer for you (generally) to have an easier time. The problem would be waiting for extended amounts of time to accommodate people who cannot wait. At what point does it start becoming more than unfair? It doesn't make me a cruel or small person to wonder at what point is it okay for me to be unhappy that my kids aren't getting to ride as much as they could have otherwise. The idea I keep getting is that it isn't okay for people who don't claim GACs to be upset by how that affects their wait time. People are supposed to get the warm fuzzies for allowing numerous disabled people and their families to go ahead of them and if they don't like it they most not care about disabled people.

I know no one said that, but it's how it feels.

Disney is a company that uses vast amounts of technology. It seems as though it would be so much simpler to find some way to use technology, perhaps via the magic bands, to manage the flow of disabled guests who cannot wait because of their limitations.

I agree that your post is excellent. You explain some of the frustrations felt by those who don't have to deal with GAC's and DAS's so well.

I also don't begrudge someone who is disabled having an easier time. I worry a little that so many people seem to have needs nowadays and I think that even that makes things less convenient for those who really need help. I don't pretend to know the answer to any of this though.

I will only add that there are people out there who don't care and any pleas for sympathy will fall on deaf ears. The people on this thread don't seem to be in that group but I believe that they do exist. That's just life unfortunately.

 

[KGK]

I asked my 14 year old healthy son how he would feel if the wait time on his favorite ride was a few minutes longer because kids with special needs were allowed to cut in front of us. He asked "Special needs like Scott? (his cousin with Autism). No big deal Dad, I understand about waiting, he doesn't. I mean how much longer will my wait be, like a few minutes.”

Seems to me to be a valid point. If we make an assumption that not all disabled people (and this post seems to be focused mainly on special needs kids) are in one ride line at any particular moment, wouldn’t the additional wait be very short? It's not as if 20-30 separate families are following our family around to cut in front of us.

I'm guessing if the parents asked, most kids wouldn't mind waiting. Kids tend to be a lot more understanding and generous than most adults.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

I've been reading along on these threads. It's so hard because it's an emotionally charged issue. Of course, I'm very sympathetic to people who are disabled or have disabled children. I think to suggest that someone who would like a different system ISN'T sympathetic to disabled people or doesn't care about them is really unfair. I think it's very hard to have this debate because parents come in and throw down the "you don't care about disabled kids" card and it kind of shuts the whole thing off. Who wants to go on after that? It's like saying, "I'm not racist, but...". You never come out of something like that feeling good.

The issue, as I see it, is a two pronged problem. First, there is abuse. We all know that. We know that there are people who are paying for "guides" who could obtain the GAC to ensure they toured with no wait. Do I think it's a huge problem? I don't know. The second problem, is that based on the number of people in the country who can claim disabilities, the system is being overwhelmed. It was stated that the GAC was never intended to be a line/wait by-pass but over the years that's how it evolved because it was probably easier for CM then for them to try and figure out who could REALLY wait vs those who couldn't.

Would I mind letting a disabled family go ahead of me to minimize their child's wait time so they could have a better experience in the park? Absolutely not. Would I mind waiting so a disabled child could have one more go 'round on a favorite ride without getting off? No. Of course, that means my children are a little disappointed as they wait at the front of the line for the next opportunity to get on, but I'm okay with a little disappointment. That's life.

But, if everyone is claiming a GAC, how long are the people who don't have one waiting and where's the line? I'm more than happy to wait a little longer for you (generally) to have an easier time. The problem would be waiting for extended amounts of time to accommodate people who cannot wait. At what point does it start becoming more than unfair? It doesn't make me a cruel or small person to wonder at what point is it okay for me to be unhappy that my kids aren't getting to ride as much as they could have otherwise. The idea I keep getting is that it isn't okay for people who don't claim GACs to be upset by how that affects their wait time. People are supposed to get the warm fuzzies for allowing numerous disabled people and their families to go ahead of them and if they don't like it they most not care about disabled people.

I know no one said that, but it's how it feels.

Disney is a company that uses vast amounts of technology. It seems as though it would be so much simpler to find some way to use technology, perhaps via the magic bands, to manage the flow of disabled guests who cannot wait because of their limitations.

Thank you so much for sharing. This puts into words what so many of us feel. Even those of us who do have special needs children or disabled themselves, who still want changes in the system.

 

[Robbi]

I asked my 14 year old healthy son how he would feel if the wait time on his favorite ride was a few minutes longer because kids with special needs were allowed to cut in front of us. He asked "Special needs like Scott? (his cousin with Autism). No big deal Dad, I understand about waiting, he doesn't. I mean how much longer will my wait be, like a few minutes.”

Seems to me to be a valid point. If we make an assumption that not all disabled people (and this post seems to be focused mainly on special needs kids) are in one ride line at any particular moment, wouldn’t the additional wait be very short? It's not as if 20-30 separate families are following our family around to cut in front of us.

I'm guessing if the parents asked, most kids wouldn't mind waiting. Kids tend to be a lot more understanding and generous than most adults.

Your son is a compassionate person. You are doing a great job as a parent.

 

[Allison]

I asked my 14 year old healthy son how he would feel if the wait time on his favorite ride was a few minutes longer because kids with special needs were allowed to cut in front of us. He asked "Special needs like Scott? (his cousin with Autism). No big deal Dad, I understand about waiting, he doesn't. I mean how much longer will my wait be, like a few minutes.

Seems to me to be a valid point. If we make an assumption that not all disabled people (and this post seems to be focused mainly on special needs kids) are in one ride line at any particular moment, wouldnt the additional wait be very short? It's not as if 20-30 separate families are following our family around to cut in front of us.

I'm guessing if the parents asked, most kids wouldn't mind waiting. Kids tend to be a lot more understanding and generous than most adults.

Too many people are using the system and it doesn't have the capacity to handle that many people, so no, I don't think this is about a few families in front of other people.

This is not about generosity or compassion or understanding. It is about a system collapsing under it's own weight and Disney trying to address this problem. Perhaps we should give it a chance to be implemented and see how it works for all of Disney's guests.

A person can have compassion and still understand that a change was needed to how the system worked. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

I asked my 14 year old healthy son how he would feel if the wait time on his favorite ride was a few minutes longer because kids with special needs were allowed to cut in front of us. He asked "Special needs like Scott? (his cousin with Autism). No big deal Dad, I understand about waiting, he doesn't. I mean how much longer will my wait be, like a few minutes.”

Seems to me to be a valid point. If we make an assumption that not all disabled people (and this post seems to be focused mainly on special needs kids) are in one ride line at any particular moment, wouldn’t the additional wait be very short? It's not as if 20-30 separate families are following our family around to cut in front of us.

I'm guessing if the parents asked, most kids wouldn't mind waiting. Kids tend to be a lot more understanding and generous than most adults.

That is all well and good, and awfully nice of your son...however, try asking a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, even 7 year old the same question. A lot of them don't understand any better than the GAC holder who is going before them. I can tell you from my 9 year old special needs daughter she doesn't.

Also, did you ask if he minded that the one person went in front of him, or every family who happens to show up when you're in line? Which could be 1 other party or 5 other parties. What if each of those parties had 5 people with them? Now you're waiting for 25 people to ride in front of you, not 1. Or the best one yet...did you ask if he minded if those people ride 5, 6, 7, even 8 (as I have seen claimed) times before he gets to go one time?

Again, your son is 14...I'd like to know an answer from a child who is of an age that doesn't understand the concept of waiting in line, even without special needs.

 

[Nigel Channing]

I asked my 14 year old healthy son how he would feel if the wait time on his favorite ride was a few minutes longer because kids with special needs were allowed to cut in front of us. He asked "Special needs like Scott? (his cousin with Autism). No big deal Dad, I understand about waiting, he doesn't. I mean how much longer will my wait be, like a few minutes.”

Seems to me to be a valid point. If we make an assumption that not all disabled people (and this post seems to be focused mainly on special needs kids) are in one ride line at any particular moment, wouldn’t the additional wait be very short? It's not as if 20-30 separate families are following our family around to cut in front of us.

I'm guessing if the parents asked, most kids wouldn't mind waiting. Kids tend to be a lot more understanding and generous than most adults.

Did you ask him if he'd be okay with 25% of the park jumping in front of him? I've read some crazy numbers on boards over the last few days of just how many GAC users are riding the more popular rides. 25% of the riders or more for some rides are GAC holders. How do people find that sustainable? Those who shouldn't have a GAC would bring that number down somewhat but those who do need a GAC are still abusing the system and are why it is being changed.

 

[Robbi]

That is all well and good, and awfully nice of your son...however, try asking a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, even 7 year old the same question. A lot of them don't understand any better than the GAC holder who is going before them. I can tell you from my 9 year old special needs daughter she doesn't.

Also, did you ask if he minded that the one person went in front of him, or every family who happens to show up when you're in line? Which could be 1 other party or 5 other parties. What if each of those parties had 5 people with them? Now you're waiting for 25 people to ride in front of you, not 1. Or the best one yet...did you ask if he minded if those people ride 5, 6, 7, even 8 (as I have seen claimed) times before he gets to go one time?

Again, your son is 14...I'd like to know an answer from a child who is of an age that doesn't understand the concept of waiting in line, even without special needs.

Most kids that age would not even notice unless it was pointed out to them.

Did you ask him if he'd be okay with 25% of the park jumping in front of him? I've read some crazy numbers on boards over the last few days of just how many GAC users are riding the more popular rides. 25% of the riders or more for some rides are GAC holders. How do people find that sustainable? Those who shouldn't have a GAC would bring that number down somewhat but those who do need a GAC are still abusing the system and are why it is being changed.

Where on Earth did you find 25%? That's hard to believe. I am not saying that you are making up the number-didn't want any confusion.

 

[Nigel Channing]

Where on Earth did you find 25%? That's hard to believe. I am not saying that you are making up the number-didn't want any confusion.

You'll have to scroll down a bit here to "The Line King" portion of the article.

http://miceage.micechat.com/allutz/al091812a.htm

 

[Robbi]

You'll have to scroll down a bit here to "The Line King" portion of the article.

http://miceage.micechat.com/allutz/al091812a.htm

Thanks for the link.

 

[sbelyo]

See, this is the kind of thing that drives me and others nuts. This is his lot in life, the cards he was dealt with his son, and while it completely sucks, why would he think that WDW or any place for that matter should look at his situation and say, "oh well, he spends the same amount of money on a ticket but can't stay long so we should just let him on all of the rides first with no wait."??? My feet KILL me by the end of the day to where I feel this side of crippled trying to walk, and I too would LOVE for someone to feel sorry for me but I'm not entitled to that. Disney is a luxury, and if you can't manage it, you just can't manage it. None of us get to do absolutely everything that the parks offer, due to many reasons. Be it, I only have enough money to go for one day, or the lines were too long so I had to pick and chose which things were must do's. Should WDW feel obligated to make sure that I get to bypass the lines because I'm too poor to afford more days at the parks? I'm sorry that these children are afflicted with these things, but a Disney trip is NOT a God given right but everyone has this sense of entitlement these days of "me and my kid first".

I'm pretty sure this post has been replied to many times but I'll add my 2 cents.

I am disabled and I have two children that are not. We would get the GAC card on each visit because it would allow me to ride the rides I could with my kids and see their enjoyment. The rides that I can not go on, my family waits in the regular queued line.

We were not abusers of the card but I saw how easily it could be abused. I often wondered when the policy would change because it did indeed allow someone to ride the ride multiple times depending on the CM who was working the line. With that being said I do not mind the change because it allows me to still do what I want to do with my kids. I can certainly see how families that cope with mental and physical disabilities that aren't readily obvious would have to cahnge or even reduce their activities in any particular park. Unfortunately change is constant and with my disability I have had to change the way I do parks from time to time so I hope those that are greatly incovenienced by the change will find a way to cope.

Now, I take offense at this statement:

See, this is the kind of thing that drives me and others nuts. This is his lot in life, the cards he was dealt with his son, and while it completely sucks, why would he think that WDW or any place for that matter should look at his situation and say, "oh well, he spends the same amount of money on a ticket but can't stay long so we should just let him on all of the rides first with no wait."???

I would think they should acknowledge it because his son is physically unable to wait in line. It has nothing to do with what he spent on a ticket.

My feet KILL me by the end of the day to where I feel this side of crippled trying to walk

That of course is a matter of your own opinion on how it feels to be crippled. I can assure you that after laying down and resting my disability does not go away. That's something you might want to consider before making a statement like that.

Be it, I only have enough money to go for one day, or the lines were too long so I had to pick and chose which things were must do's. Should WDW feel obligated to make sure that I get to bypass the lines because I'm too poor to afford more days at the parks?

I would hope you're not comparing being disabled with being poor

 

[MidwayState]

The most meaningless shutout in NHL history...he puts the puck in his own net in the playoffs when it counts.

(Context... When I was about ten I was flipping through our TCI cable and I came upon this sport played on ice...not much to do in the winter in the hills...and I saw this big, gliding French Canadian moving around and fighting off defenders like gnats on KBL broadcasts...best hands in the history of the game...his number was in the 60s. Watched probably 90% of every game since...including 15 years out of market. Circa 85-86
Not to hijack the thread... But what's your story?...for curiosity purposes)

And if the "State" in your name is what I think it is...I been there, done that too. The "state" is blue and shouldn't sound like Oklahoma...no offense to boomer sooner.

The Midway State is one of my favorite bands out of Canada. I'm not sure what you were referencing?

As for hockey, I became a Pens fan back around 1997 I guess. I used to work in an ice rink and just always loved the sport. It's the only sport I can stand. I think I just had the tv on a game one night and was watching Jagr play and I was in awe of how good he was, so I kept watching and started to learn the players and was hooked and the Pens were my team from that point on. These days I don't miss a game. I try to go to every game they play in Raleigh. That is as close as they come to me. I will be 3rd row behind the glass this month and I can't wait. Below is a pic of me at one of the games. I hope the link works.

http://s22.postimg.org/6dq3t4sxd/DSC01270.jpg

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

I'm pretty sure this post has been replied to many times but I'll add my 2 cents.

I am disabled and I have two children that are not. We would get the GAC card on each visit because it would allow me to ride the rides I could with my kids and see their enjoyment. The rides that I can not go on, my family waits in the regular queued line.

We were not abusers of the card but I saw how easily it could be abused. I often wondered when the policy would change because it did indeed allow someone to ride the ride multiple times depending on the CM who was working the line. With that being said I do not mind the change because it allows me to still do what I want to do with my kids. I can certainly see how families that cope with mental and physical disabilities that aren't readily obvious would have to cahnge or even reduce their activities in any particular park. Unfortunately change is constant and with my disability I have had to change the way I do parks from time to time so I hope those that are greatly incovenienced by the change will find a way to cope.

Now, I take offense at this statement:

I would think they should acknowledge it because his son is physically unable to wait in line. It has nothing to do with what he spent on a ticket.


That of course is a matter of your own opinion on how it feels to be crippled. I can assure you that after laying down and resting my disability does not go away. That's something you might want to consider before making a statement like that.


I would hope you're not comparing being disabled with being poor

Did you read the whole thread through? I am just wondering bc you have ascribed some things to Midway that other people said, and she was replying. Not too mention, most of the things you wrote was taken out of context.

In your first quote Midway was referring to another poster who said that due to the fact spending the same amount as others on a ticket they are only able to spend a fraction of the time that others are, they should have front of the line access. THE ORIGINAL POSTER WHO MIDWAY WAS REFERRING TO BROUGHT UP WHAT WAS SPENT ON THE TICKET....NOT MIDWAY.
I believe Midway was pointing out that you can't base a GAC/DAS on how long a person is in the park, as there are lots of reasons people can't stay all day, and being disabled is just one of them.

Again, with your last quote, Midway was referring to a post where someone said that they couldn't stay in a park as long as others and in order to do the same amount of things as a non-disabled they would need 8+days to do it and they can't afford that, so therefore, they should get a front of the line pass. In her response, she was making the point that there are all kinds of reasons...again...for not being able to do as much in a park. Being poor and only being able to afford a minimum number of days, is one example. Disney isn't handing out GAC/DAS for people who can only afford 3 days so they can ride more, bc they have less chances to ride than someone who is staying 8 days.

I really think that you took Midway's comments out of context.