Article: Is Disney Dissing the Disabled?

[Vidia2]

Someone posted a link to an email earlier that was from Disney. Don't know about that but Autism Speaks basically has the same info and it's my understanding that they worked with Disney on the new system:

"While each situation will be handled individually at Guest Relations, following are two examples of accommodations that could be offered based on a guest’s needs:

For a guest whose disability enables them to be in the park for only a limited time, the guest might be offered an accommodation that enables them to use the DAS Card in conjunction with access to a number of attractions without having to obtain a return time.

Another potential accommodation, based on a guest’s unique needs, might include providing access to a favorite attraction multiple times in a row without having to obtain a return time."

http://www.autismspeaks.org/news/news-item/new-disney-plan-how-it-affects-our-community

I was worried about the new system when it was first rumored but not really now. I think with the other changes - FP+ for fireworks and certains shows, and the new ADR restrictions that will open up a lot of restaurants that we weren't able to plan for before will now be doable for people who need flexibility. These are all good changes for my particular family.

During all of these discussions about the new system I keep thinking of that quote about a civilization being measured by how it treats it's weakest members... Not sure the exact quote or who said it but change is coming for everyone at Disney parks (and cruises too!) apparently. Some of them are coming now and some will come later. Not sure those who are overjoyed about what they perceive as perks for the handicapped being taken away are considering what changes Disney has planned that will effect them and their park experience. Maybe AP FP+ restrictions and lots of other things.

Also, I don't claim to be an expert on autism or any special need that anyone else, or their child has. Why would someone think that because they worked with children with autism or have someone in their family with a special need that they are an expert or think that they could be a better parent to anyone else's child.

 

[Schmeck]

Yep. I've already sent an e-mail to Disney complaining about them backing down in the face of the "but, but, but my kid NEEDS to ride 5 times in a row" brigade.

Some of the worst abuses of GAC were perpetrated by the people that legitimately possessed them.

You should mention that the repeated access is in violation of the ADA section 12182(b)(1)(A)(ii). Maybe that would get their attention.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

Nope, don't think her comments were taken out of context....

I don't think you can say that, bc the quote you posted by Midway wasn't even what the poster that I responded to quoted. I was speaking in the matter of those quotes.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Someone posted a link to an email earlier that was from Disney. Don't know about that but Autism Speaks basically has the same info and it's my understanding that they worked with Disney on the new system:

"While each situation will be handled individually at Guest Relations, following are two examples of accommodations that could be offered based on a guest’s needs:

For a guest whose disability enables them to be in the park for only a limited time, the guest might be offered an accommodation that enables them to use the DAS Card in conjunction with access to a number of attractions without having to obtain a return time.

Another potential accommodation, based on a guest’s unique needs, might include providing access to a favorite attraction multiple times in a row without having to obtain a return time."

http://www.autismspeaks.org/news/news-item/new-disney-plan-how-it-affects-our-community

I was worried about the new system when it was first rumored but not really now. I think with the other changes - FP+ for fireworks and certains shows, and the new ADR restrictions that will open up a lot of restaurants that we weren't able to plan for before will now be doable for people who need flexibility. These are all good changes for my particular family.

During all of these discussions about the new system I keep thinking of that quote about a civilization being measured by how it treats it's weakest members... Not sure the exact quote or who said it but change is coming for everyone at Disney parks (and cruises too!) apparently. Some of them are coming now and some will come later. Not sure those who are overjoyed about what they perceive as perks for the handicapped being taken away are considering what changes Disney has planned that will effect them and their park experience. Maybe AP FP+ restrictions and lots of other things.

Also, I don't claim to be an expert on autism or any special need that anyone else, or their child has. Why would someone think that because they worked with children with autism or have someone in their family with a special need that they are an expert or think that they could be a better parent.

The changes outlined in the e-mail mean that there is really no point to changing it at all. The most attractive and most abused aspects of the GAC - front of the line access and riding multiple times while everyone else waits - will open it up to the same abuses by the same people, including people that are eligible for accommodations.

So much for equal access.

 

[OurBigTrip]

You should mention that the repeated access is in violation of the ADA section 12182(b)(1)(A)(ii). Maybe that would get their attention.

I was not aware of that, thank you! I'll read up on it and be prepared if (doubtful) Disney responds to my e-mail.

 

[davedmaine]

Although I use a scooter and go thru all of the mainlines that I can (and use fastpass where I can), there are areas/rides/shows that I cannot navigate easy. Certainly not a God given right that I should have access to everything -- but it is an America given right. And Disney understands this -- Walt certainly did. He wanted a family park, not a park for just families that had the ability to wait, but for all families.

I have never felt the need to use a GAC. Hopefully I never will need the new access program either.

If I could only walk out of the parks at the end of the day saying "My feet are KILLING me."

Your lack of compassion toward a parent with a child who has been thru hell is astounding. I would gladly wait a few extra minutes and be happy not to be in either the parents or child's situation.

I truly hope that you and your family always enjoy good health (from the bottom of my heart!), but I do hope you can find some compassion. And as an aside, this is not "what is driving you nuts" -- you are choosing to go nuts all by yourself. Neither this parent nor Disney said "Let's see how we can drive MidwayState crazy" -- all they did was try to make it easier for a sick child and his parents to have a little enjoyment. Relax, go with the flow. And don't drive yourself nuts over other's misfortunes.

Now if you want to go after the cheaters..... I'm in.

I'm a disabled veteran too and I see your points, but the GAC issue definitely became a slippery slope .. i.e., my kid doesn't like loud noises, why should we have to leave the park when they can just cancel the fireworks? I guess I should have been thinking like that. No, instead, we just don't stay. Why adversely affect 99% of the people? There are some rides I'm not comfortable standing in line for, so I don't ride those rides. I'm not entitled to move to the front of the line.
And Disney's hands were definitely tied. How do you address the abuse? Scooter rentals have exploded which tied in nicely with America's obesity problem. Yes, an obese person has trouble walking, but does that entitle them and several members of their family to go to the front of the line?
Yes, the new policy will negatively affect a lot of people's vacations, but until somebody can suggest a better method, it's the best one that's out there..

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

Also, I don't claim to be an expert on autism or any special need that anyone else, or their child has. Why would someone think that because they worked with children with autism or have someone in their family with a special need that they are an expert or think that they could be a better parent to anyone else's child.

This works for both sides of the issue. Just bc a person doesn't have a person with special needs that they take care of, teach, or know...doesn't mean they are oblivious either.

 

[karice2]

I had a big long passage wrote up about how I felt about the changes because of my dad's issues. I don't use it even though we qualify and I am sure it will change the way we travel but then I saw this

“What separates privilege from entitlement is gratitude.”
― Brené Brown

I think this best describes the feelings of those who have issues with GAC. It became something that had special privileges attached with no sense of gratitude from those that used it.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I'm a disabled veteran too and I see your points, but the GAC issue definitely became a slippery slope .. i.e., my kid doesn't like loud noises, why should we have to leave the park when they can just cancel the fireworks? I guess I should have been thinking like that. No, instead, we just don't stay. Why adversely affect 99% of the people? There are some rides I'm not comfortable standing in line for, so I don't ride those rides. I'm not entitled to move to the front of the line.
And Disney's hands were definitely tied. How do you address the abuse? Scooter rentals have exploded which tied in nicely with America's obesity problem. Yes, an obese person has trouble walking, but does that entitle them and several members of their family to go to the front of the line?
Yes, the new policy will negatively affect a lot of people's vacations, but until somebody can suggest a better method, it's the best one that's out there..

Very well said! I think Disney was trying to do the right thing, but unfortunately, the whiners and criers have most likely cowed them into turning the DAS into the GAC with a different name.

To me it's pretty simple - special needs doesn't mean special. A kid with autism is no more special than my NT kids, although some of the parents (not the kids, the parents) sure want everyone to treat them like they are.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I had a big long passage wrote up about how I felt about the changes because of my dad's issues. I don't use it even though we qualify and I am sure it will change the way we travel but then I saw this

“What separates privilege from entitlement is gratitude.”
― Brené Brown

I think this best describes the feelings of those who have issues with GAC. It became something that had special privileges attached with no sense of gratitude from those that used it.

Very well said!! There is an autism activist in CA that actually posted in her blog that she didn't care if people were abusing if the only ones complaining were the non-disabled. Her perspective, stated, was that so long as people using GACs weren't being negatively impacted by the abuse, she didn't care whether it was abused or not.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

I'm a disabled veteran too and I see your points, but the GAC issue definitely became a slippery slope .. i.e., my kid doesn't like loud noises, why should we have to leave the park when they can just cancel the fireworks? I guess I should have been thinking like that. No, instead, we just don't stay. Why adversely affect 99% of the people? There are some rides I'm not comfortable standing in line for, so I don't ride those rides. I'm not entitled to move to the front of the line.
And Disney's hands were definitely tied. How do you address the abuse? Scooter rentals have exploded which tied in nicely with America's obesity problem. Yes, an obese person has trouble walking, but does that entitle them and several members of their family to go to the front of the line?
Yes, the new policy will negatively affect a lot of people's vacations, but until somebody can suggest a better method, it's the best one that's out there..

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

To me it's pretty simple - special needs doesn't mean special. A kid with autism is no more special than my NT kids, although some of the parents (not the kids, the parents) sure want everyone to treat them like they are.

And that my friend, is why I hate the term special needs. I have said this right along, and I believe it.


AND that my friends, is coming from a mama of a special needs child.

 

[Schmeck]

I was not aware of that, thank you! I'll read up on it and be prepared if (doubtful) Disney responds to my e-mail.

I sent them a copy of the letter, and the section of the ADA, and a cut/paste of the actual section. I will post back when/if I get a response.

I basically asked them if the letter was for real, or a hoax. I can't find the original online, just a repost on FB?

 

[KGK]

I sent them a copy of the letter, and the section of the ADA, and a cut/paste of the actual section. I will post back when/if I get a response.

I basically asked them if the letter was for real, or a hoax. I can't find the original online, just a repost on FB?

So we're hoping Disney gets scared and changes their policies because you are sending a letter which clearly the legal staff at Disney may not be aware of? I guess the government could send undercover agents to see if this rule is being violated and if so give Disney a very large fine. That would teach them.

Well I guess it won't happen until the government shutdown is over.

 

[Objectivity]

You should mention that the repeated access is in violation of the ADA section 12182(b)(1)(A)(ii). Maybe that would get their attention.

Probably not, since that section doesn't say what you think it does. I've included that and the one after so that everyone know what you're referring to.

(ii) Participation in unequal benefit It shall be discriminatory to afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements with the opportunity to participate in or benefit from a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is not equal to that afforded to other individuals.
(iii) Separate benefit It shall be discriminatory to provide an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements with a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is different or separate from that provided to other individuals, unless such action is necessary to provide the individual or class of individuals with a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation, or other opportunity that is as effective as that provided to others.

Section ii says it is discriminatory to offer an accommodation on the basis of disability that is not equal. It does not say it can not be better than what is offered other individuals.

Section iii says you can't provide a separate or different accommodation unless you do so in a way that is as effective.


You could argue that making a disabled person have to come back to a ride is in violation because someone in a regular line doesn't have to do that. I wonder if that's why they're doing wait time minus 15 minutes.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

Very well said!! There is an autism activist in CA that actually posted in her blog that she didn't care if people were abusing if the only ones complaining were the non-disabled. Her perspective, stated, was that so long as people using GACs weren't being negatively impacted by the abuse, she didn't care whether it was abused or not.

Agreed! I don't know why I can't quote Karice's post itself, it won't let me, but it was very well said.

That is disgusting about that woman. I am a disabled person, with a special needs child, who is complaining. LOUD too!

 

[OurBigTrip]

I sent them a copy of the letter, and the section of the ADA, and a cut/paste of the actual section. I will post back when/if I get a response.

I basically asked them if the letter was for real, or a hoax. I can't find the original online, just a repost on FB?

http://www.autismspeaks.org/news/news-item/new-disney-plan-how-it-affects-our-community

From the Autism Speaks website.

Huge cave on Disney's part.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Probably not, since that section doesn't say what you think it does. I've included that and the one after so that everyone know what you're referring to.



Section ii says it is discriminatory to offer an accommodation on the basis of disability that is not equal. It does not say it can not be better than what is offered other individuals.

Section iii says you can't provide a separate or different accommodation unless you do so in a way that is as effective.


You could argue that making a disabled person have to come back to a ride is in violation because someone in a regular line doesn't have to do that. I wonder if that's why they're doing wait time minus 15 minutes.

Fine - then they can wait in line for an hour like everyone else does. Simple fix!

 

[beer dave]

I'm a disabled veteran too and I see your points, but the GAC issue definitely became a slippery slope .. i.e., my kid doesn't like loud noises, why should we have to leave the park when they can just cancel the fireworks? I guess I should have been thinking like that. No, instead, we just don't stay. Why adversely affect 99% of the people? There are some rides I'm not comfortable standing in line for, so I don't ride those rides. I'm not entitled to move to the front of the line.
And Disney's hands were definitely tied. How do you address the abuse? Scooter rentals have exploded which tied in nicely with America's obesity problem. Yes, an obese person has trouble walking, but does that entitle them and several members of their family to go to the front of the line?
Yes, the new policy will negatively affect a lot of people's vacations, but until somebody can suggest a better method, it's the best one that's out there..

Thank you, and any other veterans reading these boards, for your service.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

I've been thinking on this while I was eating my dinner. One thing I realized is there has been lots of responses to those who say their child can not wait in line, saying that there are lots of times in everyday life you have to wait...even examples given. However, no one seems to have an answer to that. Which is very convenient, IMO.

So, I am putting it out there. If your child can not wait even 15 minutes in line to ride an attraction at WDW, then what do you do at home when.....

-You have to wait at a stop light? Do you crash into cars, bc your child can't wait? Or run over pedestrians bc god forbid, your child can't wait!

-You have to wait in line at the grocery store?

- Do you provide Christmas or Bdays, or Halloween every day of the year, bc the child can't wait for that one day a year?

-Your cooking dinner and your child wants it now? Or your waiting at a restaurant to be served? Should they get theirs cooked before everyone else at the restaurant, bc they have special needs?

-your child has to use the bathroom and it's occupied? Do you have a bathroom FP?

-when they are at the playground and there is a line for the slide, swings, etc? Do you run over and yell that your child should be first bc they don't understand?

These are just a few examples, and yes some are on the extreme side, but apply none the less.

I assume it hasn't been directly answered and skipped over numerous times, bc the answer is...they wait. Which is in direct contradiction to saying they can't wait at WDW. Thus, you don't have a leg to stand on and it's easier to just not respond to valid, thought out, and common sense questions.

Sure, you can answer with the same old same old of...but we are on vacation, and it's the one place where we can participate like regular folks. Except there is a problem with that theory...regular folks don't get front of the line/immediate access...AND just bc your on vacation doesn't mean life, learning, and parenting cease to exist.

Even in the special needs program my DD is in at school, she has to wait her turn to answer, to play games, to get her lunch, to go to recess, to sharpen her pencil...I could go on and on. If they are teaching it in school, then it must be an important life skill that professionals feel need to be taught. They also wouldn't bother to teach it, if it can't be learned.