Armed Teachers?

[teacherforhi]

I don't think they would----I gave a reason for why in an earlier post---But my way of thinking is==If I am a teacher carrying a concealed weapon I would rather be the target than one of my students.
And someone isn't going to target a teacher just because they are carrying a concealed weapon--The targeting of a carrying teacher would be an attempt at continuing with the plan in place without having to worry about being stopped before maximum damage is done.

Yes, but part of the plan could very well be "Take out Mr. X because he has a gun". No way would I want to be in the classroom of a teacher that basically has a target painted on his or her back.

I'm also wondering who becomes responsible for these teachers' students when they're out playing cowboy or whatever? No way would I want my students left alone in the classroom in a lockdown situation.

 

[MrsPete]

If a teacher shoots Johnny in a gun battle

Why let there be a hostage situation if there doesn't have to be?

5)Why would a student not feel more safe when a licensed professional is bringing a gun to school . . . Students probably wouldn't even know which teacher,if any,was carrying a weapon.

Guns are already in the schools----We just need to decide if we want those guns to be in the hands of kids who don't have much sense or in the hands of trained professionals!

7)Yes many teachers go off the deep end.

I think the question had to do with the possibility of a teacher shooting an innocent bystander, not the gun-wielding maniac. It's horrible to think that a student could be killed by someone with evil intentions, but how much worse would it be for that student to be shot accidentally by his math teacher who saw him in the hallway (while he was trying to get from the bathroom back to his classroom during a lockdown) and mistook him for a gunman?

And in an emergency, adding more people with deadly force would not be helpful. Remember what they do in all those videos of kids running out of the schools after these tragedies? They have EVERYONE -- students, teachers, everyone -- running out with their hands on their heads, and EVERYONE is treated as a suspect until the truth is revealed. They want to make sure that the perpetrator doesn't slip into the student body and escape while posing as a victim. If you have more guns out there, you have more people who aren't well-informed about who's who during a panicky, difficult-to-communicate situation.

Guns don't prevent hostage situations. If they did, no one would ever be held hostage where the police are present, or in a bank, or in a war situation. In fact, guns can only aggravate hostage situations -- or make what could've been a hostage situation into a death scene.

I'm a licensed professional -- licensed to teach school. I am in no way licensed to carry a gun or protect students during a gunfight. No one SHOULD feel safer if I have a gun.

As for students not knowing who has a gun . . . well, that's just foolish. Guns of any size show under street clothes, and a kid who was "sizing up" the teachers to figure out who's totin' and who's not would certainly take time to watch the teachers carefully. Students know an awful lot about teachers; they pay attention to details -- they're curious. Or . . . maybe the "bad guys" would just decide to shoot all the teachers, just in case they're the ones who have the guns.

Yes, there are SOME guns in schools, but aside from the Resource Officers, they aren't there in large numbers, and the kids who have them keep them hidden. Obviously even ONE is too many, but the kids who have them rarely, rarely, rarely intend to take them out during school hours. Most often it's because they intend to do something with them after school, or because they fear they can't leave the gun unattended during the school day. However, if you make it "okay" for teachers to have them, the students WILL start to bring them.

No, MANY teachers do not "go off the deep end". Very, very few do this. I've been teaching for 15 years and do not know a single teacher who's "lost it" in school. However, that's not the greatest danger in this discussion.

Irishbosoxfan, I've been in the schools for the last decade and a half, and your take on the reality of guns in schools is nothing like what I see every day.

 

[MrsPete]

I don't think they would----I gave a reason for why in an earlier post---But my way of thinking is==If I am a teacher carrying a concealed weapon I would rather be the target than one of my students.

Maybe you're just a nicer person than I am, but I DON'T CARE TO MAKE MYSELF A TARGET! I certainly don't want my students to be shot, but I don't like any of them enough to take a bullet for them. If a tragedy ever occurs, I'll be right there with my students, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go out foolishly to try to do something I'm not trained to do.

If a shooter ever enters my school, the file cabinet and my desk go over the locked classroom door, and I sit in the back corner, the safest part of my classroom, WITH my students baracaded behind the student desks -- those are my instructions from the professionals who worked out the school safety plan. The professionals will have to take care of the gunmen.

And someone isn't going to target a teacher just because they are carrying a concealed weapon--The targeting of a carrying teacher would be an attempt at continuing with the plan in place without having to worry about being stopped before maximum damage is done.

Of course the teachers with guns would become targets! To suggest that it isn't true is just silly!

Look at all the planning the Columbine kiddos did. If they'd had reason to believe that five certain teachers had guns, they'd have figured out where those teachers were stationed at "the chosen time" and they'd have had a plan in place to make sure that those teachers weren't able to act against them. It wouldn't be a personal attack on the teachers -- it'd be a way to keep their evil plan moving forward. The teachers would become roadblocks, and they'd have to be removed.

 

[ChrisFL]

Ok people, first its completely crazy to buy into this media frenzy that schools are somehow going to be constantly targeted now. The fact is that school violence is way down in the past few years from where it was back in the 90's.

So a few wackos do crazy things but there's still a 99.9% chance that nothing at all will happen to your kids school, but if teachers start carrying guns it makes the problem a whole lot more complex.

 

[poohandwendy]

Look at all the planning the Columbine kiddos did. If they'd had reason to believe that five certain teachers had guns, they'd have figured out where those teachers were stationed at "the chosen time" and they'd have had a plan in place to make sure that those teachers weren't able to act against them. It wouldn't be a personal attack on the teachers -- it'd be a way to keep their evil plan moving forward. The teachers would become roadblocks, and they'd have to be removed.

And the sick thing is that they would have enjoyed taking out the armed teachers. It would have added to the excitement.

But my way of thinking is==If I am a teacher carrying a concealed weapon I would rather be the target than one of my students.

It is absolutely wrong to expect teachers to be soldiers in a school environment. It is absolutely wrong to bring more guns into the schools. It is absolutely wrong to expect teachers to have the extra duty of keeping and maintaining the safety of a loaded gun in the class room and the awesome responsibility of being held personally MORE responsible for the safety of the student body than other educators who work beside them.

There is so much wrong with the idea of teachers (of any background) carrying guns, the reasons are almost endless.

 

[poohandwendy]

Ok people, first its completely crazy to buy into this media frenzy that schools are somehow going to be constantly targeted now. The fact is that school violence is way down in the past few years from where it was back in the 90's.

So a few wackos do crazy things but there's still a 99.9% chance that nothing at all will happen to your kids school, but if teachers start carrying guns it makes the problem a whole lot more complex.

Absolutely.

 

[va32h]

Guns don't prevent hostage situations. If they did, no one would ever be held hostage where the police are present, or in a bank, or in a war situation.

I completely agree.

I also think that if someone is prepared to take a gun to school and start shooting people, the usual code of morals/logic is already been tossed out the window. They aren't going to stop and think "hey wait a minute, my plan for mass murder-suicide just isn't going to work, because the science teacher has a handgun. Oh well. Guess I'll just go back to being an ordinary 10th grader."

So a few wackos do crazy things but there's still a 99.9% chance that nothing at all will happen to your kids school, but if teachers start carrying guns it makes the problem a whole lot more complex.

I also have to agree with this. A few high-profile cases do not a national epidemic make.

When something like the Amish school shootings happens - it's so inexplicable, so random, and so especially horrific in it's randomness (who could have possibly anticipated such a thing!) I think we just feel compelled to do something to reassure ourselves that the same thing can't ever happen again.

But I don't feel that arming teachers is a viable or even rational response to school shootings.

 

[MrsPete]

They aren't going to stop and think "hey wait a minute, my plan for mass murder-suicide just isn't going to work, because the science teacher has a handgun. Oh well. Guess I'll just go back to being an ordinary 10th grader."

Exactly my point -- you just said it better. A couple teachers with handguns will never "fix" the problems that cause kids to decide to do these horrific things, but the presence of those handguns could easily make things much, much worse.

I think we just feel compelled to do something to reassure ourselves that the same thing can't ever happen again.

I can't speak for all schools, but my county has plans in place for various possibilities. All the teachers know the plans, which were made in cooperation with the police departments. We practice the plans. We have several variations, which we could use depending upon the circumstances. We're not just sitting back saying, "Oh, I hope it doesn't happen to us."

Obviously, these plans won't keep up perfectly safe, but neither would a couple handguns across the school.

 

[Cindy B]

There are lots of precautionary measures, safety alerts issued in our district. I know that these measures are in place and have been established by police professionals.

I feel entirely safe for my own students and my own children. I know that many precautions are in place to make sure all 12000 yes 12,000 kids in our district are safe.

Teachers with deadly weapons are not a good mix.

 

[reeeoga]

As for students not knowing who has a gun . . . well, that's just foolish. Guns of any size show under street clothes, and a kid who was "sizing up" the teachers to figure out who's totin' and who's not would certainly take time to watch the teachers carefully. Students know an awful lot about teachers; they pay attention to details -- they're curious. Or . . . maybe the "bad guys" would just decide to shoot all the teachers, just in case they're the ones who have the guns.


QUOTE]

I have carried a Standard size 1911 on my persanage for over 6 years in a variaty of situations where it was legal for me to carry. Noone has every noticed. So a small sized (compac carry) would be very easy to hide. especially if the teachers normally wear jackets as "buisness style" dress codes.

I have also known several police officers in the schools where I work. All of them carry a small backup gun. I have only spotted 1 of them in 3.5 years and I was purposefully looking for it. I'm paranoid and like to know where the weapons are if I need to defend the students from some nutjob.

I also know that if something happens when I am in a school I do not have a weapon becouse I can't carry in a school (federal law).

As far as who gets sued: federal courts have ruled that it is not the duty of the police to protect anyone and that if someone gets hurt or killed becouse of police actions it is not the police's fault. The lawsuits that are brought to court are for Neglagence not "Officer Steve shoot my son while tying to get the badguy".

 

[mrsltg]

Well, before I join in and say, "this will never work" it has. It does. In Isreal this has been the solution for about 30 years. The PLO used to target schools. They don't since the teachers were armed and a parent is armed outside the school.

Of course, we're not protecting against your run-of-the-mill terrorist here. Rather a psychotic individual whose usually tired of being bullied. I don't have an answer for that. I do think a well-trained armed teacher in the right place at the right time could cut down on the bloodshed but I also think the problem is so miniscule it's not worth the debate.

 

[castleview]

Well, before I join in and say, "this will never work" it has. It does. In Isreal this has been the solution for about 30 years. The PLO used to target schools. They don't since the teachers were armed and a parent is armed outside the school.

Of course, we're not protecting against your run-of-the-mill terrorist here. Rather a psychotic individual whose usually tired of being bullied. I don't have an answer for that. I do think a well-trained armed teacher in the right place at the right time could cut down on the bloodshed but I also think the problem is so miniscule it's not worth the debate.

I agree the problem is smaller than it seems.

Israel requires every citizen to do mandatory military service where they would be trained to use a gun. I would just hate to see one great teacher not get a job because someone who knows how to use a gun was considered "better qualified".

Even with an armed teacher, right place at right time plays such a huge factor. Columbine had an armed guard (two, I think). In the meantime, an unarmed teacher in the Pacific Northwest disarmed a gunman years ago and a principal on the East Coast talked a kid into putting down his gun.

 

[#1hockeymom]

Nope.....
I'm there to teach and nurture, NOT to be armed and dangerous.

btw... I'm NOT anti gun.

 

[Charade]

Ok people, first its completely crazy to buy into this media frenzy that schools are somehow going to be constantly targeted now. The fact is that school violence is way down in the past few years from where it was back in the 90's.

So a few wackos do crazy things but there's still a 99.9% chance that nothing at all will happen to your kids school, but if teachers start carrying guns it makes the problem a whole lot more complex.

So much for responsible journalism.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I think it is an idiotic idea. This is a place of learning and free thinking not a prison.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Ok people, first its completely crazy to buy into this media frenzy that schools are somehow going to be constantly targeted now. The fact is that school violence is way down in the past few years from where it was back in the 90's.

So a few wackos do crazy things but there's still a 99.9% chance that nothing at all will happen to your kids school, but if teachers start carrying guns it makes the problem a whole lot more complex.

The Amish school that was a tragic site just two weeks ago has been torn down. When it is rebuild it will have no additional security and I am sure that that school will never have Roberts enter it and kill again.

 

[punkin]

Great. Logical thinking. To reduce gun violence, make sure more people have guns.

 

[pbnjrockette]

NO MORE GUNS...just what we need in the schools, staff who is armed. I was threatened once by a parent who said she was going to bring a gun and shoot me (she never did show up after we called the police.) Wouldn't it have been nice to have a teacher-parent showdown on the playground.

Dumbest idea, yet.

 

[kevw67]

This is by far the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. What imbecile(sp) came up with this? It has got to be someone who has never been in a classroom to what goes on and what the potential dangers of arming teachers could be. Im not sure I would homeschool my children, but I cant believe this would ever pass. Why dont we arm grocery store personel or fast food workers? I mean they rob and shoot those people more often then kids in school.

 

[reeeoga]

I think it is an idiotic idea. This is a place of learning and free thinking not a prison.

The High School I went to was designed by the saem firm that designes the state prisions