Sorry I was MIA yesterday, I had a family emergency. I like to respond to every posting personally, to acknowledge everyone's input here, as I so appreciate it!
We are from Alaska as well. I mentioned specifically that our family makes a big vacation out of Disney etc etc. I haven't received any response at all except the automated return receipt assuring me they would respond soon.
Good luck!
I have emailed them also. A week ago already. No response yet... Waiting patiently.
Told them that travelling from Hawaii isn't cheap. It's a yearly trip, annual passes are not an option. Save all year for it, spend plenty of money in the parks... Meals, drinks, toys, souvenirs it all adds up. Disney is our main reason for travelling, vacationing for 10 days and limited because of price to spend an extra couple days in the park. I did say that we stay off-site becuase its very hard to save up to enough money for a Disney hotel. Very disappointed about the ticket decision and wish they would reconsider. That was just basic, it was more detailed than that.
Hope to hear some kind of response. Generic... Whatever. Just so at least I know they read my side.
I feel like the generic copy and past doesn't mean they actually read the entire letter - I feel like they scan the letters and are scanning for words such as 6 or 7 or 8 day Park Hopper... then they copy and paste. I think it's a good idea for everyone who writes in, to also write a question that must be answered with a personal reply, a basic Park question, etc. Why have they not ever responded with any 'human element' (compassion) as to each individual situation?
Why would this thread be closed?
Thanks to the great mods here, it was all taken care of!
Have been reading and following this discussion with some interest. I can understand why some of you are so upset as the long park hoppers were an especially good value. Disney has essentially increased the price for you. As an AP holder I was upset at my price increase too. Why I don't understand is why you expect Disney to change the policy and drop the price again. If you want 6 days, buy two 3-day hoppers. I know this drives your cost per day up. I get that. But it is still less than buying 6 tickets or an AP.
We are all upset about price increases, but the number of people buying the long hoppers wasn't very high. If everyone who bought them decided to never again return, it wouldn't be more than a blip on the attendance radar. If I am taking a week long vacation and I live far enough away I can make it out once a year or less, I am likely traveling for two of those 7 days, making a 5 day hopper just about perfect. That is how it seems Disney is looking at this anyway.
It's the first sentence of yours that I highlighted in bold that I really relate to, and so do others. The thing is, the price was raised twice in the past year, and yes, this makes it like yet an additional 3rd price increase for those of us who choose to purchase Park Hoppers, but for an AP it was 'just' the 2 price raises. We are really not sure in numbers how many are or are not purchasing the longer Park Hoppers, we can only speculate, but either way, I like to think of myself as a valued Guest, not a blip on the radar, I guess.
We go for 7 nights, which means 6 full days in the parks, and an entire afternoon, from 2 PM on, on the day of arrival. A 7 day Park Hopper is perfect for us, and for so many others. For a family of 4, buying 2 different price tiers of tickets (2 X 3 days, etc.) isn't nearly as beneficial as the former system.
Let me give you my example to explain.
We visited DLR from the UK 2 years ago, stayed 7 nights at the
Disneyland Hotel. Bought 6 day hoppers. We re-visited this summer, staying at Paradise Pier for 6 nights. Again bought 6 day hoppers, just before they were discontinued. In total we must have spent something like $7000 with Disney over these 2 trips, plus of course, the cost of air fare.
These trips, of course, also included visits to various other places in California (we spent a total of 16 days in California this summer).
If Disney wants to make us pay the full (or even close to the) single day price for our sixth day (or buy 2 three day hoppers), we shall simply go somewhere else on that sixth day, and not stay on Disney property for that night also. This will cost Disney typically well over $300 in lost revenue for the hotel, meals etc. There is also the chance that we simply decide that a California vacation is already pretty expensive, so maybe we'll just give it a miss altogether, and go somewhere else.
The value to us of a sixth (or seventh) day, is not the same as for a single day. It is simple marginal value pricing, which Disney still recognises on tickets up to five days (the more days you buy, the less marginal cost per day).
I find it hard to believe that a corporation like Disney will knowingly pass up earning significant associated revenue, by making what appears to be a purely arbitrary and inconsistent decision on the pricing of multi-day tickets.
Very well stated, all of it! Thanks!
I can appreciate your example. While $7k is a lot of money, I am little surprised it is that low. Disney is an expensive place. All I was trying to say is that while I understand people being upset at the policy, it is a choice Disney made related to their admission price. They know exactly how many people bought the longer hoppers and at the price per day the longer hoppers worked out to, they must have felt it no longer made financial sense to offer them. They are taking a risk that people who had previously purchased these 6 or more day hoppers will make the choice you appear to be making and not return, but I don't think most of those people will make that choice. They will come for the 5 days and do something else with the extra time. One less day inside the parks isn't a deal breaker for those few that had previously purchased longer tickets. That extra day was so cheap by comparison, Disney was likely losing money on that day. Consider how many CMs you encounter just getting through the gates. Those people all need to be paid.
If you do skip Disney altogether as a result of this policy change, there is enough demand for the product that someone else will be there to fill the void.
It is really sort of an odd problem for DLR actually. They built DCA to capture a greater share of the SoCal tourist dollar. There is so much to do here that DL alone was maybe 3 days out of a trip. Guests would come to the park and then go off to Other parks in the area to round out their week. DL was not the vacation destination. People wanted to come to LA and while here, visit DL. DCA was created to try and change that. They wanted DLR to be the destination. That has been slow to come, hence the redesign of DCA. Now that they have this, they want to control the length of the stay a bit. It seems to me that their desired model is the one week vacationer. They can keep that person happy and engaged for the week and leave them wanting more. Enticing them back for another week on their next vacation. The most common model for a one week vacation is 5 full days in the parks with the other two being travel days. Now I know that when I take a week off work, I actually have 9 days off. I could very easily have 7 full days at my destination (hence the popularity of the 7 day cruise). Disney doesn't seem to want that vacationer. If they do get them, they want that vacationer to pay more for their tickets.
The 5 day hopper is $290. That is $58 per day. Yes, adding one more day means you either spend $290 plus $87 (one park) for a total of $377 of $62 per day, or go with another combination like two 3 days, which works out to substantially more per day. It is very easy to spend an entire day in just one park. For what amounts to an average daily cost of jus $4 more per day, I have a hard time understanding why a person would choose to skip Disney altogether over not offering a 6 day hopper. Did I do the math wrong?
Disney did make the decision, but they also have the power to override that decision. I agree they are taking a risk, as I am positive no one is going to add on one, two, or three more days with the current pricing. For so many it is the cost getting out there, that we can't really justify making the trip 'worth it' for only 5 days. I don't believe there are more people out there to fill the void - I agree they are completely packed/busy etc... at the same time, if I don't buy my 5 day Park Hopper, it does not mean anyone will actually replace me - it is lost revenue for Disney, and quite a lot adding up with families who were going for 7 days at a time.
For me personally,I would need a 5 day hopper and add 3 extra days.I am staying at the resort for 12 days and will be taking a day off here and there to rest.I can't do it in 5 days as I have a mild disability and that kind of touring is out of the question.Heck...last time it took me two days just to see CA and that was before CL
.I think the same applies for families with little ones.
Where the issue lies is that there is such a price discrepency between a five day and an AP which if you are staying longer than a week only makes sense.So now you are making the travelling tourist, who apparently are spending all the money in the parks and resort, on the same playing field with the residents of CA.I would love to be able to visit more than once a year but my flights are over $2000 for the 3 of us
I just wish there was some middle ground.
And there is still some debate whether this is a fraud issue or a money issue.
In the first statement of yours that I placed in bold font, I like how it sums up what the issue is.
Re: The second bolded sentence: Yes, exactly - while we don't doubt there is some fraudulent use of tickets (and remember, those fraudulent tickets are also 'spending money in the parks' on food/merchandise, etc.) because I was specifically told after speaking on the phone to a Cast Member who had just spoken to his supervisor, that "The tickets didn't sell very well, that's why they are giving them up" it appears maybe Disney was looking for an 'ideal' excuse with either reason. However, now that we have expressed widely on this forum just how many people are disappointed in their new 'only-5-day-Park Hoppers-available' policy, that doesn't appear to be a leg to stand on, (now they know there are a lot of us) and perhaps they do just want more money per day per person. IF it was because of fraud, we know Disney can remedy that if they want. The reason they probably didn't cut down on it before, (my guess), is that they knew the ticket purchasers of the fraudulent tickets
were still a cash grab, in that they would spend money in the parks on food and merchandise, yet normally maybe would not have even bothered going if they couldn't get in for a really cheap fraudulent price. My personal opinion is that one should always purchase from a reputable ticket agent, such as Disney, or Getaway Today, or Flight Centre.ca. If you care enough to take your family there, and love the parks, I think one should support the company. I just can not support the odd way of thinking for them not allowing us to buy more days for less per day the way they did in the past, and forcing my family to only be able to stay for 5 days because we can not afford to pay for additional days the way it is set up now.
You can get your combination of park hoppers at $67.50 per day average cost (a 5 plus a 3 is a little cheaper than 2 4-day). That is almost half off the regular admission price. Still expensive, yes, but most people jump at a half off sale. I know it is more than it used to be, but so are all admission prices, especially annual passes. Your total cost for 8 days is still less than an annual pass.
I am not trying to enter into a debate. I just seem to be missing the point of the outrage. If the complaint is simply the price increase, I get that. I haven't had to pay the $650 yet as I renewed mine just before the increase. I might not. But $67.50 a day for over 16 hours of high quality entertainment each day, isn't off the mark.
It's not so much outrage as it is disgust, the blatant disregard and careless thinking in setting it up in this manner. Previously, 6 and 7 day passes were available for all, and some 8, and 14 day passes for some in other countries, etc. That Disney thinks we are so stupid that we will not even notice that to create a 6, 7, or 8 day Park Hopper pass that the scale is higher per day than with just the 5 day pass. Disney, why don't you want guests in your park for 6 or 7 days, etc.?? Despite the $67.50 per day calculations, I still could not wrap my head around paying more per day the longer I go.
I wouldn't say that I am outraged....mildly annoyed would be better.I just wish that DL had a PH rate scale like WDW.
For my family of 3, it will be $202 every day we walk through that gate.Over 8 days it will be cheaper for us to buy AP's.However, there is noooo way we could make 2 trips in one year.
We also choose to go in Feb when the parks are open for 10 hours through the week,but that is just because it is easier for me.
Yes, the AP doesn't work for those who live far away.
I've never bought more than a 5-day so I wouldn't have noticed. But I generally buy a day longer than I think we'll need because it's so cheap for that insurance. I didn't know I could upgrade at the park. So I've been buying an extra day for years, and wasting that money 90% of the time. Which is fine, I guess. But I just did it again yesterday.
You just bought a 6 day Park Hopper yesterday? Oh... wasted the 6-day Park Hopper you had purchased a while ago, by only going 5 days, right?
The issue to me is simply one of a huge price increase for anyone travelling very long distances who wants to spend more time at DLR. It seems designed to discourage such longer stays, despite Disney recently hyping DLR as more of a multi-day resort destination (presumably to get more guest for their hotels).
We purchased 2012 6 day hoppers for $251 just before the price increases.
The option to add a 1 day hopper ticket to a new 5 day hopper would bring the total 6 day cost to $415, a 65% increase over the old 6 day price. This is a $656 increase for a family of 4. Buying a pair of separate 3 day tickets would cost $500 each.
A 65% increase is double that of APs, for tickets that still can only be used for 6 days, and is getting close to a deluxe AP price at $469 (which gives potential 300+ days access, but of course has weekend black out dates during the summer - not much use when travelling several thousand miles across the ocean).
Excellent points, thanks for sharing!!
The outrage is more because of not being able to change things as needed and generally changing how we would explore the park. Yes, I suppose I can plan on 6 days, but I won't now. Spending an additional $360 or so out of the gate for something makes us just 'make do'. When I originally planned our trip for August, it was easy to get DH to say 'sure' let's extend (he's not a big Disney person) with the additional per day cost.
When we were there, on our 5th day, we wanted to see the Pixar play parade which I thought was at 5. After nap, we rushed in to see it and it was changed to 2. We spent time in the park, and then I figured I'd do the shopping in World of Disney on our last day. I tried to upgrade and couldn't. So, we had to buy the sign DS wanted (which wasn't available at World of Disney) on ebay. The pixar play parade? Didn't do it. When we travel, we like to go at a leisurely pace without worrying that we weren't going to do what we wanted.
Really, what I'll skip in future years is shopping. Because those leasurely strolls through the stores won't happen. For me, our Disney trip ended on a sour note-cancelled parade and really only an option to pay $250 (or $200) to see it). It also runs counter to the 'spend time here' campaign. If its a fraud issue, I wish they would counter act that. If it is a revenue per day issue, then I wish they would just increase the incremental costs.
I also don't appreciate that they make a decision - oh coming from Australia-you'll spend 14 days here, but if you are from anywhere else and hop on a plane you will only spend 5 days. I would think that if you were coming from Australia for a once in a lifetime trip that perhaps you'd do more then Disney where families taking a typical 1 week trip might commit more to Disney. I mean, last time coming from Chicago we got there at 10:30 am and stayed for 6 nights. We went to another hotel for 5 nights to do other things.
I am so sorry you didn't get that extra Park ticket added on, due to their new policy!! Thanks for your post, lots of great points here for sure!!
Cyclenut- I think the issue here is that Disney essentially increased ticket prices once for everyone, and basically a second time for anyone wanting to stay more than 5 days. There is a blatant unfairness in penalizing customers who want more of your product.
For me, 5 days will probably be plenty in the future, as a party of 4 with no disabilities or strollers and naps slowing us down.
But last time we went as a party of 6 with a stroller and one napper. Five days was not quite enough time to do everything and feel "done" and ready to go home. The same is probably true for the party bringing grandma in her wheelchair. Grandmacan probably only do a few hours a day in the park, and she doesn't want to go to the beach. So Disney IS the vacation.
I think that's a big chunk of the disappointment.
The same was true for anyone who wanted to stay 8 days. So my guess is there is some demographic that uses those 6-7 day passes that they don't mind losing. But I don't know enough about it to hazard a guess.
Thanks for your interest in this thread, and for your posts... I am positive Disney is reading this thread.
I must have missed something. Why would this thread have to be closed?
It's all good now, thanks to the fantastic mods.
2 3-day hoppers costs $500 ($250x2).
A 5-day and a 1-day hopper costs $415 ($290+$125).
Any combination is cheaper if you buy a 5 day and build on top of that.
It just stinks so much to consider paying more per day for going past 5 days, and we just won't do that. [
It's like going to a gym - would a gym charge you MORE per day the longer you want to go? Nope!]
On the contrary, Disney says the purpose of Cars Land is to make DLR a 6 day vacation.
Yep, that they do!
It would costs millions to change all the things necessary to bring the WDW ticketing system to DLR.
One CM said it was to curtail fraud. I email another and she acknowledged that reason.
The reason stated for me is 'not such good sales on the 6 day.' Why different reasons I wonder. It would cost a lot for the WDW system, but they have more options available and they can solve it if they try for less money than the WDW system I believe.
I have never heard that stated. If that is true, it would make no sense for them to not offer a six day pass.
This is our point in this thread - Disney suggests staying longer, but then you have to buy 2 sets up tickets, paying more per day then. Makes no sense at all.
Yes. I corrected myself later. In fact, if it were me, the sixth day would be a one park only ticket. No need to make that extra day a hopper.
I just can't justify adding one more day on like that, with the expense of it.
Disney executives have definitively and repeatedly stated recently that their goal with Carsland is to turn Disneyland into a "vacation destination." The weeklong term has also been mentioned, albeit less often and not as specifically.
They have also confirmed, repeatedly and for years, that TOURISTS have a much greater (double, maybe more) daily spending average than local or day guests. So, Disney desperately wants to attract tourists to maximize profit.
Which is why eliminating ticket lengths makes very little sense, financially, for Disney and I'm guessing, it was something done in one of Disney's myriad of separately controlled departments, to solve a problem within their purview, without adequately determining the full cost effectiveness.
Disney World also reaches a ticket price point where additional days come at a very small increased cost. I haven't gone to study the current prices, but I know on our December 2010 trip, we could have purchased five day tickets but, if we upgraded to six, in order to go on our arrival night, it was only $5 more per person. Therefore, it was a total no brainer to do so.
Disney does that, not because they're kind and generous and want to spread some pixie dust, but because they know you're going to say, as we did, "it's only $5," and then go into the parks and buy food and merchandise during your "bonus" time there. And they're right, because we did both: buy the extra day because it was so cheap AND spend additional money in the parks--money we wouldn't have spent any other time, I might add.
If we had, instead, been told that for that extra day we had to buy a whole new ticket, we wouldn't even have considered going, therefore taking ourselves, and our wallets, elsewhere, which is the LAST thing Disney wants. And with the exception of a teeny tiny percentage of Disney diehards, which are wildly over-represented on the Dis Boards, no one is going to buy another $90 ticket, or spend $200 to upgrade to an annual pass, to increase their time in the parks by one, two or even three days. It makes zero financial sense and Disney knows that, which is why they previously allowed easy, and inexpensive, upgrades beyond five days.
You go into the park on your departure day and have a character breakfast before leaving for the airport, and that's money in Disney's pocket. You're happy because you got an extra bit of Disney for a reasonable cost--say, $30 bucks to upgrade your whole family--and Disney's happy because you just dropped $200 on a character meal you wouldn't otherwise have partaken in. It's a win-win.
Instead, you've now got peeved guests, many of whom will have zero idea they can't upgrade until they arrive for their, say, week-long vacation, and the double whammy of a loss of that all important merchandise and dining revenue.
It just makes sense that you need a middle ground between 5 days and 315, which is the amount of days you can enter the park with a Deluxe Annual Pass, the lowest level an out-of-state guest can acquire.
Florida is very successful with the "don't let 'em get off property and see what else is out there" strategy--whisking guests from the airport to the parks and hoping they never stray--and Disneyland has long wanted to emulate that model ... Which only makes this decision even more baffling.
Disney doesn't "lose" money by offering a decreasing per day cost on longer tickets. Not by a long shot.
Coopersmom, you sure understand this and are getting the points across perfectly!
It really is insane
. Although here on the Dis I have read of many who spent a week visiting before CL and the BVS additions to DCA now I am sure there are many more who want to stay longer. Myself included. Flying in from Sweden I'll have 4 weeks in CA visiting friends, and I also want my dose of Disney.
I checked back to this thread simply to see if a solution had been announced yet. I'm sure it will because it's just bad buisness but I'm hoping it's sooner rather than later! I'll be visiting in April/May but am holding out on buying my airfare until I here things have changed.
Disney, please, read these personal posts, and understand our points of view.
Well now I'm really baffled. Very curious to hear now this all turns out. Today I am off to the Alaska state fair ..... Not a good substitute... Lol
I keep thinking it will turn around, and soon. They are vesting so much time and effort into people who are asking/wondering/trying to get the upgrade to the 6,7, day Park Hoppers at a reasonable cost, plus, they see here in this thread how ridiculous it is that they have it set up this way. Fingers crossed for some
The quote came from Disneyland President
Jon Storbeck. It was also discussed on the DISBoards podcast on 8/16.
"Q: Where are you at in the process of turning this into the 4 and 5 day resort?
JON: Wow. I think were always looking for an opportunity to bring guests into the resort and give them an opportunity to stay another day, and I certainly think weve done that here with what you see
with Cars Land. I think what weve done here
what the Imagineers have done
is just give the guests a reason when they come to Southern California to stay one more day here, whether theyre on a three day vacation and they want to stay a fourth
or a five day vacation and they want to stay a sixth, so its just a great environment for them. "
The elimination of the 6 day pass is completely against what Jon is saying.
Thank you, for posting this, it really is beginning to make it look like Disney should maybe try to change things up.
Excellent post. I agree with everything you said. And a small update ... the price to upgrade WDW tickets past 5 days is now closer to $10 per day.
I have highlighted two very salient quotes here.
My guess is that this was not thought through with a complete analysis. The department that came up with this change thought through only to the point where they could muster more revenue by making Day 6 a full fare day with no discount for admission. What they didn't do, it seems, it look at any sort of actuarial plan of what happens to revenues with people who would normally stay on for Day 6 under the old plan are no longer willing to pay full fare and don't participate in the new plan.
No modest fare money from Day 6 + no revenue from park sales = loss of revenue.
I would very hard pressed to believe that someone thinks, particularly with the current economy, everyone would be fine with paying full fare on Day 6.
I enjoy Disney greatly. I enjoy getting more bang for the buck in my vacation budget even more.
Thanks, your post is an explanatory one. Very good!!
With all due respect, if I may ask, why would this thread offend anyone? We're all just expressing our displeasure and disappointment at Disney's latest move, and providing information to each other while trying to figure out why this is being done. This new policy of theirs costs our families hundred to thousands more, and while we don't like it, no one is cussing, bashing, or doing anything disrespectful or against the rules. So please let us know what exactly was done so we can avoid it and keep the thread open.
Yep, what Sherry E said below...
To those who have been asking -
This thread does
not have to be closed now as long as it stays respectful and non-argumentative. However, it
was at one point headed in a direction that was not good - and others noticed it as well because it was reported to us behind the scenes. We handled it, and it's in the past.
Hooray! Thank you!
Thanks all for helping me understand your perspective. Since I live close and hold an annual pass, I don't see things the same way. I understand now how steep the increase is and how that affects planning. I also see the conflict with executive statements and the duration of stay that seems to be Disney's current target.
I do wonder though what folks think the fair price is for the average daily per person admission cost to DLR.
KBF is $57 for a two day pass.
Universal is $80 for a single day, but you get a year for that price too.
Legoland is $95 for two days.
Sea world is $78 for a single day ticket
Magic Mountain is $40 for a three day pass.
All of these also have different promotions, options for kids or annual passes or even to combine visits across multiple locations.
If the DLR average daily ticket price for your visit is around $60 for a park hopper, is that too much? What is the right number?
I love it when someone who lives nearby is able to contribute, and say, even though this doesn't apply to me, I DO understand how you guys feel.
I'm not quite sure what the rate per day is that I would like to see, but I do know that I would be happy with the allowance of a better rate plan per day the longer you stay, since you are putting so much money into the park by staying a few more days. I still like only $5-$10 per day for each day past 5 days. It would make sense to me, since the price has been inflated so much in the past year.
has anyone seen the other threads that someone was able to add another day to their 5-day hoppers for only $5 this past friday...?
maybe there is hope...
I haven't seen that, that would be amazing if it were so.
But I think they had purchased their original tickets before the rules changed.
OH.
Thanks for this breakdown. I'll make use of it in my vacation planning!
I do love how civilized the Dis boards are, acknowledging different perspectives on things.
Yes, the DISboards are a bunch of good people, and I appreciate the respect on the various viewpoints on so many threads.
From what I read and understood before they were allowing people to upgrade a 6-day hopper for $5 and not allowing 5-day hoppers. The post on the thread I read said that someone was able to upgrade a 5-day hopper for $5 this past Friday.
I think the ticket had been purchased before a 'cut-off' date, as Piglet99645 had mentioned.
Anyone buying tickets now is tough out of luck.
grin, and proceed to tell them why it's so magical. But I still wonder, even if most consumers purchase 3 or even 5 day hoppers, why would they charge more per day if we want to stay longer. So strange. 
