Are you a stay-at-home wife?

[sk!mom]

I know a lot of 2 working parent families whose kids have student debt and quite a few 1 parent working families whose kids have none. In my case, I worked to keep my kids debt free and was able to do so easily because we'd never counted on my income. IMO, whether there are two working adults or one in a family doesn't matter as much as the way they choose to handle their finances. We can't make assumptions about those choices based only on how many wage earners there are.

Very true. Which is why I clearly (I thought) said that I was speaking only for myself. We also always used my income for extras (extra travel, extra activities, extra savings, and the early pay off of our home and our own student debt.) Although it did make 2012, when my DH battled cancer, less financially devastating.

When DD21 started college in 2014, we've mostly cash flowed it out of my pay. My "extra" income was now college funding. Therefore, I said, for ME had I not been working to cover college without loans, I would have gone back for that purpose. Even if I had been at home longterm, I could have found a job to add the $20,000 annual college cost after scholarships. DH and I are very debt intolerant though. Probably as an outcome of our own financially shaky childhoods, debt makes us worried and stressed (especially me.)

 

[Poohforyou]

I also want to add that within 1 year DH was pushed into early retirement and I was let go from my company. Fortunately we both received generous severance, DH received his pension and I found another job within 4 months. My point is that things happen and having 1 person responsible for the financial well being of our family is just too scary a prospect for us.

My PSA, is to make sure both partners have ample life insurance and there's protected savings.

 

[Magpie]

I come from a long line of independent women. My great grandmother went to college in late 1800s/early 1900s. Sadly, I also come from a long line of women who were widowed and left to raise children on their own (including my mom who was widowed at 40 with 4 young children).

I think my history has made me be the type of person who doesn't want to be dependent on someone else for survival. I get staying home for a few years with young children but not having the means to support myself, and my child, if needed scares me too much. Plus, I like working.

I think, as someone who has been a SAHW for decades now, something that always gives me pause is being slapped with the label of "not independent".

I may not have a work history and my CV might be filled with volunteer work and independent activities, but I don't feel that I am dependent on my husband for survival. While losing him from my life would make me very sad, I feel quite confident that I could survive without him.

Even if I'd been widowed when the children were young (something that did almost happen), I would have survived. And, knowing myself, in time I would have been happy again. I've never been knocked off my game for long.

My husband and I are a team. We've chosen different ways to contribute to our life together. That doesn't make me any more dependent on him, than he is on me. (Though, actually, in a way, we are quite dependent on each other, emotionally-speaking, as most couples tend to be.)

Edit: Also, he just pointed out, to mitigate against his sudden death, we did purchase life insurance around the time the children were born. And, we've always had a plan in place, should either of us meet a sudden, unexpected end. I've shared in our financial planning, every step of the way.

 

[HarperLeigh]

I come from a long line of independent women. My great grandmother went to college in late 1800s/early 1900s. Sadly, I also come from a long line of women who were widowed and left to raise children on their own (including my mom who was widowed at 40 with 4 young children).

I think my history has made me be the type of person who doesn't want to be dependent on someone else for survival. I get staying home for a few years with young children but not having the means to support myself, and my child, if needed scares me too much. Plus, I like working.

My husband would laugh at anyone who claimed I was dependent. Earning a paycheck doesn't necessarily equal being independent.

 

[quandrea]

I think, as someone who has been a SAHW for decades now, something that always gives me pause is being slapped with the label of "not independent".

I may not have a work history and my CV might be filled with volunteer work and independent activities, but I don't feel that I am dependent on my husband for survival. While losing him from my life would make me very sad, I feel quite confident that I could survive without him.

Even if I'd been widowed when the children were young (something that did almost happen), I would have survived. And, knowing myself, in time I would have been happy again. I've never been knocked off my game for long.


My husband and I are a team. We've chosen different ways to contribute to our life together. That doesn't make me any more dependent on him, than he is on me. (Though, actually, in a way, we are quite dependent on each other, emotionally-speaking, as most couples tend to be.)

Edit: Also, he just pointed out, to mitigate against his sudden death, we did purchase life insurance around the time the children were born. And, we've always had a plan in place, should either of us meet a sudden, unexpected end. I've shared in our financial planning, every step of the way.

I think the not independent label screams of negative stereotypes. There is a systemic devaluing of a nonworking spouse in our society. My partnership works because one of us is home. It would make no sense for me to go out and work for 70-80 thousand a year, while in the process limiting my husband's earning potential. We'd actually end up off worse financially.

My husband nearly died when I ten weeks pregnant with our twins. Even while sitting in the emergency room that day, I ran through in my head that I'd be fine, mentally checking off how I planned to handle things. Certainly not dependent. I'd describe myself as fiercely independent.

We are huge risk takers I guess--no life insurance. Can't get it due to dh's heart condition that has been fully repaired. We've taken other steps to avoid financial ruin. No pension either. We like life on the edge, I suppose!

My husband would laugh at anyone who claimed I was dependent. Earning a paycheck doesn't necessarily equal being independent.

Again, society has devalued child rearing to such a low place that going out to earn a pay check, any pay check and under any circumstance is viewed as preferable to "just staying home to raise the kids and make the home." No value is placed on raising tomorrow's adults. You are more respected if you delegate that task. People speak of choice, but I really think one is looked down upon when one chooses to stay home.

 

[HarperLeigh]

I think the not independent label screams of negative stereotypes. There is a systemic devaluing of a nonworking spouse in our society. My partnership works because one of us is home. It would make no sense for me to go out and work for 70-80 thousand a year, while in the process limiting my husband's earning potential. We'd actually end up off worse financially.

My husband nearly died when I ten weeks pregnant with our twins. Even while sitting in the emergency room that day, I ran through in my head that I'd be fine, mentally checking off how I planned to handle things. Certainly not dependent. I'd describe myself as fiercely independent.



Again, society has devalued child rearing to such a low place that going out to earn a pay check, any pay check and under any circumstance is viewed as preferable to "just staying home to raise the kids and make the home." No value is placed on raising tomorrow's adults. You are more respected if you delegate that task. People speak of choice, but I really think one is looked down upon when one chooses to stay home.

Yes, all one needs to do is read this thread to understand the negative reaction SAHM and SAHW put up with often.

 

[Turn the Page]

And in addition to the housework, for SAHMs we've added a LOT of parenting expectations that weren't there a generation or two ago - music lessons and sports teams and all the other organized activities that have taken the place of "Be home when the street lights come on" hinge on having a parent available to shuttle the kids around, and most of that falls to the mother whether or not she works. Homework has also gotten much more parent-dependent - big projects that require special materials, reports that demand online research, reading logs and planners that have to be reviewed and signed off on every night or every week. I'm a child of the 80s and the difference even between my school years and my kids' is staggering in terms of the time parents are expected to put in. For my mom and grandmother, "supporting our education" was going to conferences a couple times a year, keeping lots of books in the house and telling us to turn off the TV and read them, and working education into family time via days at zoos and museums. I can't remember my mom ever having to help with power tools or wiring for a school project (4th graders in our district build lighthouse replicas, complete with a functioning electrical circuit to run the light), and she certainly wasn't signing off on nightly planner and reading checks the way I do for my 9yo.

This. A few weeks before the end of the school year in 2015 the kids were playing on the playground after school with some friends a mom and I were chatting about what sorts of activities and such the kids would be doing that summer. The music teacher happens to walk out and joins the conversation saying how great she thinks it is that there are so many summer programs available for kids in our area. She isn't wrong, there are a lot of programs. We have a lot of rec programs through both the city and the YMCA, the local community college puts on a program where kids can come in for a few hours a day for a couple of weeks and learn about different topics, there are drama and arts programs, all sorts of things. Which is great. But I just looked at the woman and said yeah, that's great and all, but every single one of those programs takes place during business hours which means if your family doesn't have a stay at home parent, the kids can't do any of that. No one can get them there.

DH and I both work in the summer. I have to leave the house by 7:30 in the morning and don't get back until 6 and then it's time to get dinner, try to find the energy to clean it up, get baths for the kids, do DD7's therapy, maybe start a load of laundry, and then it's time for everybody to go to bed. DH is at work by 5 every day and gets home shortly after 6. There aren't any fun drama programs for our kids in the summer. I'm glad they're out there and available but let's be honest here, working parents can't get their kids to them.

 

[DLgal]

My husband would laugh at anyone who claimed I was dependent. Earning a paycheck doesn't necessarily equal being independent.

I can say with 100% certainty, even though I am a stay at home mom, and my husband makes all the money, he is COMPLETELY dependent on me, not the other way around. In fact, I have anxiety about something happening to me because he would be totally clueless about the day to day running of the house, what's going on with the kids at school and with their IEPs, where the kids doctors and dentist are, the weekly therapy appointments for our son, the bills needing to be paid and when (I have set up a handy spreadsheet detailing all this along with a sheet full of ALL our accounts, login information, etc., but I still worry.)

It's anyone's guess what they would all eat without me making food since his cooking skills don't go beyond making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

I might be completely FINANCIALLY dependent on him, but our home life is FUNCTIONALLY dependent on me.

 

[Turn the Page]

I can say with 100% certainty, even though I am a stay at home mom, and my husband makes all the money, he is COMPLETELY dependent on me, not the other way around. In fact, I have anxiety about something happening to me because he would be totally clueless about the day to day running of the house, what's going on with the kids at school and with their IEPs, where the kids doctors and dentist are, the weekly therapy appointments for our son, the bills needing to be paid and when (I have set up a handy spreadsheet detailing all this along with a sheet full of ALL our accounts, login information, etc., but I still worry.)

It's anyone's guess what they would all eat without me making food since his cooking skills don't go beyond making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

I might be completely FINANCIALLY dependent on him, but our home life is FUNCTIONALLY dependent on me.

Yep. If it wasn't for me DH would never go to the doctor when he needed to or remember to take his medication, he wouldn't have a much financial stability and he would be completely helpless at parenting. I ask him all the time how in the world he ever survived on his own before I came along.

 

[ashley0139]

Yes, all one needs to do is read this thread to understand the negative reaction SAHM and SAHW put up with often.

All one needs to do is read this thread to understand the negative reaction working moms put up with often as well. There's plenty of judgement on both sides on this thread.

 

[Colleen27]

I think, as someone who has been a SAHW for decades now, something that always gives me pause is being slapped with the label of "not independent".

I don't get the view that earning ability is the sole determinant of one's independence or lack thereof. I rely on DH financially. He relies on me logistically. But no one would suggest he's "not independent" because he'd have a long learning curve (and probably hired help) if he suddenly had to manage the kids and household on his own. That label is reserved for me, because it would take me weeks or months to ramp up to earning enough to support the household on my own.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I can say with 100% certainty, even though I am a stay at home mom, and my husband makes all the money, he is COMPLETELY dependent on me, not the other way around. In fact, I have anxiety about something happening to me because he would be totally clueless about the day to day running of the house, what's going on with the kids at school and with their IEPs, where the kids doctors and dentist are, the weekly therapy appointments for our son, the bills needing to be paid and when (I have set up a handy spreadsheet detailing all this along with a sheet full of ALL our accounts, login information, etc., but I still worry.)

It's anyone's guess what they would all eat without me making food since his cooking skills don't go beyond making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

I might be completely FINANCIALLY dependent on him, but our home life is FUNCTIONALLY dependent on me.

I guess its different if you have special needs kids. My kids go once a year for a check up and twice yearly for a dental cleaning. No biggie.

We both cook and my teen is learning to cook. I can't imagine someone not knowing how to cook as its a life skill. Too bad your husband didn't learn.

If something happened to me my husband would be at a loss with passwords and stuff as I do most of the bill paying. I have a spreadsheet with it all written up but who knows if he will remember will to find it!

Again I thin kthere is a huge difference between SAHP and SAHW. The OP is a SAHW not a SAHP.

 

[AustinMommyofThree]

All one needs to do is read this thread to understand the negative reaction working moms put up with often as well. There's plenty of judgement on both sides on this thread.

I completely agree and was just coming on to post the same thing. All the "my husband would be completely lost without me" and "I really run things, he just makes the money" and "my family has time together because I care enough to stay home" smacks of pejorative judgment and self-aggrandizement, to my eyes. My life is a partnership, as well, it just happens to be one where we both make money and support each other.

 

[Wendy31]

All one needs to do is read this thread to understand the negative reaction working moms put up with often as well. There's plenty of judgement on both sides on this thread.

I agree. I think we all want justification for the choices we've made, & we feel like we need to defend those choices or make them seem "right" or better.

No one likes being called dependent or lazy/non-contributing for choosing to stay home. No one wants to be accused of neglecting her family due to choosing to work outside of the home.

But I do believe that volunteer & other types of non-paid work and choosing for someone to stay home exclusively to raise children and/or manage the home is undervalued.

That said, I do not think my DH would be lost w/o me. He'd manage just fine. He's great w/ the kids, & he can cook & clean & do laundry & knows how & when to pay the bills.

And, while I admit to being dependent on him, I think, if something happened to him, although I'd be devastated, I would also be able to pick up the pieces & carry on.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm not judging anyone but for me this was the #1. If I hadn't already been working so that we could travel more and live comfortably, I'd have gone back to pay for college. I could not have been at home while debt was piling up for my kids. That would have been too stressful for me but I'm the stressy type.

We thought I was going to do that too... but now that we're staring down the barrel of college for our second child (first is in a trade program at community college, no debt, no worries), it turns out that would be a mistake. Doubling our household income at this point, with her a junior in HS, would torpedo her eligibility for most need-based institutional aid at her top three schools. So we're going to revisit the math in a year or so when the acceptances come in, and again in 4 or 5 years when she's wrapping up her undergrad program.

We've also made a deal with our kids about student loans. If they do need to borrow, we will help with repayment provided that they're not borrowing frivolously and they complete their programs in a timely fashion. DS won't need that help; he'll graduate debt-free into a high-demand trade, making a good wage. DD might. Even with the generous aid the schools she's looking at offer, she may have to borrow to cover things like study abroad or field placements, summer internship opportunities, etc. And I don't think that's a bad way to get a positive credit history started, provided it is done wisely, so I'm not as anti-loan as I used to be.

 

[Colleen27]

I completely agree and was just coming on to post the same thing. All the "my husband would be completely lost without me" and "I really run things, he just makes the money" and "my family has time together because I care enough to stay home" smacks of pejorative judgment and self-aggrandizement, to my eyes. My life is a partnership, as well, it just happens to be one where we both make money and support each other.

That last one is obnoxious, to be sure, but I don't get the rest. I'm not judging anyone except perhaps my husband when I say he'd be lost without me, and it isn't something I view as positive. It is something I worry about, and have prepared for. DH can cook and clean, I don't worry about that. Even my teens can do that. And I certainly don't care that the garden and the canning wouldn't get done. But he has little interest in even staying up-to-date on our finances, retirement accounts, bills, etc. He hasn't so much as paid an electric bill himself in 20 years or so, back before online bill pay was even a widespread thing. Before we met, he lived in an apartment that included most utilities and paid his electric & cable bills in person, in cash. Not really a good option for our current, rural-homeowner life! And he does work long hours, with on-call responsibility one week out of the month, so he's not particularly aware of the kids' schedules or activities. Plus he's a total technophobe, so his willingness and ability to learn some of the things he'd need to fill my role is minimal.

I have files on my computer detailing all the financial info DH would need if something happened to me, all the contact numbers and schedules and other details, and instructions for some of the things he's been uninvolved in to this point. But I don't have those things set up for DH. DD16 and MIL both know where the information is, because I suspect DH would be leaning on both of them to ease the transition if the worst did happen and I wasn't here to do what I do.

 

[JaneBanks]

Again I thin kthere is a huge difference between SAHP and SAHW. The OP is a SAHW not a SAHP.

Yeah, one has children, the other doesn't.

 

[Magpie]

Yeah, one has children, the other doesn't.

Well, the other's children could just be grown.

I was a SAHP, now I'm a SAHW.

I actually kind of hope my daughter someday finds herself a nice SAHH. A man like that would go a long way to helping her achieve her dreams, both in the scientific field and in her aspirations for family life and future children.

 

[AustinMommyofThree]

That last one is obnoxious, to be sure, but I don't get the rest. I'm not judging anyone except perhaps my husband when I say he'd be lost without me, and it isn't something I view as positive. It is something I worry about, and have prepared for. DH can cook and clean, I don't worry about that. Even my teens can do that. And I certainly don't care that the garden and the canning wouldn't get done. But he has little interest in even staying up-to-date on our finances, retirement accounts, bills, etc. He hasn't so much as paid an electric bill himself in 20 years or so, back before online bill pay was even a widespread thing. Before we met, he lived in an apartment that included most utilities and paid his electric & cable bills in person, in cash. Not really a good option for our current, rural-homeowner life! And he does work long hours, with on-call responsibility one week out of the month, so he's not particularly aware of the kids' schedules or activities. Plus he's a total technophobe, so his willingness and ability to learn some of the things he'd need to fill my role is minimal.

I have files on my computer detailing all the financial info DH would need if something happened to me, all the contact numbers and schedules and other details, and instructions for some of the things he's been uninvolved in to this point. But I don't have those things set up for DH. DD16 and MIL both know where the information is, because I suspect DH would be leaning on both of them to ease the transition if the worst did happen and I wasn't here to do what I do.

I think most spouses would be lost if their partner died, but the way I interpret the implications of many stay-at-home-parents (not all, just like not all working parents, myself included, judge stay-at-home-parents) is that they feel they are more irreplaceable because their (usually) husbands are functionally idiots who are lucky to get through each day without getting lost on the way to the bathroom.

I also think that most of us (working, non-working, male and female) have tremendous abilities to rise above things when required, and that includes husbands (and wives) who have no idea how something works. We figure it out when we have to. My husband pays the bills, because he enjoys it, but I am sure I could figure out how if he were to die or be incapacitated. I schedule the doctor appointments for the children, but I'm sure he wouldn't let them go without health care if something happened to me. But there's no reason for him to know how to do those things now, nor for me to know how to do his things, when it's not an issue.

When our kids were much younger, our greatest worries were childcare, since that is a two person job in our family, but we have plenty of insurance to provide for that. If something had happened then, the survivor probably would have stayed home with them, but we had enough insurance on both of us to allow that. Fortunately, for many reasons, that was never an issue.

 

[LJSquishy]

[QUOTE="LJSquishy, post: 58178885, member: 397928" Our plan was to adopt and we had been saving money for that over the past 5 years or so but now that I'm almost 33 and my husband is 37, we're undecided if we will end up adopting or not. The longer we've been without kids, the more we question if we're content with the way things are or not. Most of this is due to the extensive process of adopting (home studies, promoting ourselves, getting chosen, etc) and with a cost of $25,000+ we have to think about the financial impact it will have on us. We're also considering just being foster parents without adopting, or foster-to-adopt if the right placement came along.

I find this confusing. Wouldn't you working have made the saving for the adoption a lot quicker? The $25,000 could easily have been earned in one year of working if you went from not working to working. Sorry this jumped out a me as I read your response.

Not specific to the above quoted post - I think there is a difference between SAHP and SAHW. One is raising children and one is not. This thread is about the latter not the former.

And about Ireland's married women not being able to work until the 1970s - fascinating. I never knew that. Wow. My grandmother worked from the time her kids were in school until her retirement around age 60. That was in the 1950s onwards. She was a married women. My grandfather was just never a big earner.[/QUOTE]

Yes, if I were working we could have saved money toward adoption quicker, however, having zero job skills would net me a minimum wage job with no vacation time and I'd most likely need to work weekends and evenings (thus never seeing my husband). The biggest reason why I didn't work during all of this time was that we couldn't foresee our infertility struggles years ahead. No one thought 11 years later we'd still be childless (including reproductive endocrinologists), so while we were still trying to conceive we were also setting money aside for adoption in case we went that route. Had I known 10 years ago I wouldn't be able to carry a pregnancy to term, yes, I would have worked. Adoption wasn't our plan from the beginning, it evolved into that because that could be the only way for us to have a child. During all of those years we kept trying to have a child, over and over, and losing every pregnancy.