Are WE to Blame?

[mousehockey37]

Just going to agree with a lot of what was said here by others and the OP. We HAVE become a culture of entitlement. Everyone wants their freebies. If so and so got it, I should too!

Thing is, at least for me, part of what makes pixie dust so special is that it doesn't happen all the time. If something becomes the norm, it loses some of the magic.

Sure it's fine to be a little jealous of someone getting a perk you got, that is only natural. But be happy for that person!

There's that saying 'a watched pot never boils'. I think it applies here. The best magic happens when you aren't looking for it.

I think Syndrome's quote from the Incredibles is basically at play here: "Everyone can be super. And when everyone's super.... no one will be."

Basically, if everyone has to have the magic moments, then no one will have them.

 

[fbb]

I do find it interesting that when it comes to this subject, the "relative few DISers" are enough to cause Disney to stop offering special things like the paintbrushes, but when it comes to FP+ we shouldn't complain because it only affects a "relative few" and Disney won't change anything they are because of that relative few.

yep.

Did too many people find out about the 3rd PM EMH?

 

[Fractal514]

You don't get a good reputation by having secret good things that only a few people know about, and you don't lose a good reputation because too many people find out about the good things and you have to stop. The contradictions in this line of reasoning make it sound like a Yogi Berra quote.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that this is actually a contradition. What I am saying is that the little things that Disney may have been able to do once in a while for individuals might not be something they can do on a grander scale.

Furthermore, you're right, having secret things that only a few people know about is NOT a good business strategy for building a reputation, but it is a good strategy for making customers feel special and unique and building life-long loyalty.

I do think there is some logic to a company's reputation being dinged by people who were told that there was something magical that was going to happen and then it not happening.

 

[Fractal514]

I do find it interesting that when it comes to this subject, the "relative few DISers" are enough to cause Disney to stop offering special things like the paintbrushes, but when it comes to FP+ we shouldn't complain because it only affects a "relative few" and Disney won't change anything they are because of that relative few.

I think that you are making a false equivocation here. I'm not suggesting that it is only those of us who post who are contributing to the problem, but rather we share the information with each other, then re-share what we've learned with friends/family, and then there are lots of other sites that take the info and compile it, and of course there are lurkers and folks who search for something and stumble upon the site without posting at all.

With regards to FP+... I think that is a completely different situation. The stuff this thread is discussing is smaller scale stuff that was/is done at an individual level. FP+ is a crowd management system and just one part of a larger My Magic Plus program. I do think that Disney is taking the pulse of the community in various ways, and that when people are dismissive of the negative responses, it is more to point out that boards are but one of the ways Disney is receiving feedback. Guest surveys, customer service complaints, and a whole slew of other mechanism are also generating feedback.

In short, DIS is large enough to be phenominal at discovering secrets and sharing them, but not so large that it can speak for the entire community of guests who visit the parks.

 

[LisaTC]

And, you know, I wanted to address this.

Dh and I host a lot. We have the biggest house out of my family so we tend to have the get togethers. We provide food and, yes, insist no one clean up after dinner. However, I'd be pretty upset if, after a party, I walked into the powder room and found that someone had urinated all over the floor or dropped a nasty used tampon in the middle of the room and didn't clean it up. It's disrespectful. To expect some other human to clean up after you like this is awful. I don't care what you paid to get in the door, that property belongs to someone else. It's no ones job to clean up after you to that degree. No one. My daughter spilled her milk at Cosmic Rays. A castmember noticed it and told me not to worry about it. I let her mop (it was easier than trying to get it with napkins) but you can bet your butt dd and I cleaned up the rest. That's respectful.

Yes, this is a pet-peeve of mine as well. I always think, who in their right mind would do that. What is wrong with people who think it is perfectly fine to throw soiled tp or other items on the floors, etc. The level of disgusting in public areas is at its highest, JMO.

My DD is so conscientious. We go shopping and if she sees a blouse or something on the floor under the racks, she will pick it up. I think common sense things aren't being relayed by example and we've raised a large group of entitled generations.

I don't think it is any one thing creating this issue. When asking if we are partially at fault equates to blame. Are forums, social media responsible for an inordinate amount of instantaneous information...yes. Blame is different.

In this day and age it will be hard to "surprise" anybody. People tend to equate cost with entitlement. I paid x dollars, I "should" have x experience. Well, sadly, Disney is expensive. Those X dollars don't equate to an non-Disney experience dollar for dollar. In reading and researching their management issues, training is lessened, employee numbers are much, much lower, they instituted this mass change with MB & FP+ and I fully allege Disney did not appropriately train their poor CM's. Too many reports of CM's being frustrated or not knowledgeable about the new system. This is a reflection on Disney and Disney alone. They will ignore it. They don't care. It's all about $$. It will never again be about magic! No matter how many commercials they put on TV to the contrary. Does that mean you'll have a rotten time...NO. We had a great time. We had no expectations from anybody but ourselves!

That's the world we live in...sadly.

 

[maxiesmom]

Did too many people find out about the 3rd PM EMH?

Nope. It is just too few people were taking advantage of it to continue to offer it. Bad business sense to keep a park open, and pay all of those CMs, for only a handful of guests.

 

[chrismb22]

Actually I think it's half us and half Disney. Yes we chat about things but that's the nature of people.

However, Disney does not help matters sometimes. I seem to recall a Disney show on the travel channel where you had someone state that it was great especially when their daughter got to meet all the princesses in the Rose garden.

I'm like yeah that's gonna happen. I've been going for a long time and never once seen princesses just standing our in the rose garden. So it's half us in our excitement and half Disney.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And every time they show a kid riding DUMBO with a princess or Mickey -- yeah, ok like that's going to happen (and I wouldn't expect it too but you know there is some person out there saying "why can't my kid ride with Mickey. I paid to get in here"

 

[Donut23]

It is funny because we were at the disney hotel having terrible service, yet their disney ad on the TV was all about the "legendary" disney service, so they somehow still think they do. I must say I wrote to costumer service once I got home and I got a called back and some resolution to our problems. Nothing over the top, but it is a little bit more than I have gotten from other hotel brands (usually a generic email).

Believe I get it they don't want to deal with it, but that is their job. I worked in the industry did I wanted to get yelled for the 20th time that day because it was cold outside? No (I am not kidding people actually complain about this), but that was my job. I had to smile and try to make it a positive experience. You can't take things personal and treat every guest as they approach you, I understand if they are yelling at you, you don't have to smile and be friendly, but should you take it out on the other guest?

I never let anyone treat my employees disrespectfully and I had plenty of guest escorted out by security. To work in the service industry you need thick skin. You get yelled at, you get things thrown at you, you get literally crazy people and you have to do your job.

Ok now this is "legendary"

Years ago, a lifetime ago now, I worked on charter sailing yachts.....the really big ones with lots of crew. We would clean the staterooms each morning. Our guests had some serious $$$$$ to be chartering these yachts. They were not from ....... The hood.

Honeymoon couples would leave used condoms all over the place. One of the yachts had hand pump heads (toilets) and an entire group refused to pump/flush the heads themselves. They would come out and say ....... "I'm finished" and we would go in and flush it for them.

People would drink too much and pass out into their plate of food at dinner. We would clean them up and put them in bed. Or the drunks would get seasick and vomit into the $25,000 Waterford bowl in the main saloon.

Rude behavior is nothing new. Hospitality work is tough. And yes, we had great guests too!

Luckily for us, the times without guests made up for it!

 

[yankeepenny]

Judas Priest! you hit the nail on the head, that banged on the board, that finished the house in the land of the park that Walt built.

well said.

 

[3Gsandme]

I'm sorry, but I don't think that this is actually a contradition. What I am saying is that the little things that Disney may have been able to do once in a while for individuals might not be something they can do on a grander scale.

Furthermore, you're right, having secret things that only a few people know about is NOT a good business strategy for building a reputation, but it is a good strategy for making customers feel special and unique and building life-long loyalty.

I do think there is some logic to a company's reputation being dinged by people who were told that there was something magical that was going to happen and then it not happening.

This is what I think, exactly.

There's a lot of cost to replicate "magic" on a large scale. One custom printed menu? No big deal. Easy peasy. Low cost. 100 people asking a day? 200? It stops being a small endeavor. It starts to be costly. It starts to require the hiring of extra people to facilitate the requests. It gets too big and too much. When you add it people who get angry over not getting the "free extras" "extra magic" or "pixie dust", it's easier to just do away with the program.

 

[GrtWtNorth]

Do Disney fans need to adjust their magical expectations? Maybe. I think cast members do their best with what they have. It might not be consistent, but I don't envy their roles and understand not everything is perfect. I've stopped looking for WDW magic, especially if I'm visiting during busy seasons like Easter week. If it happens, embrace it, but never expect it. Even on the cruise ships, magic happens randomly in the corridors, but rarely in the character meet-and-greet queues. I had several moments of magic at Disneyland when we visited at the end of August (California kids back in shool).

Non-magical moment at WDW:
* Be Our Guest restaurant, where a guy wearing a "Proud Member of XXXX Police Force" shirt verbally abused fellow guests and cast members because he didn't have a reservation, but his kids were hungry now. My family of two had a reservation, but we still got the honor of waiting over an hour for our table, and this ignorant guest and his family of five was seated 20 minutes ahead of us. I respect the city of XXXX and Disney restaurant managers a lot less now...

Nice magic at WDW:
* friendship boat CM giving DD4 a handful of collector cards with the names and stats for many of Disney's transportation fleet.

Nice magic on DCL:
* DD4 and Peter Pan debating in loud whispers about who should protect who from evil Captain Hook, while waiting for Captain Hook to wrap up his nearby meet-and-greet.

Nice magic at Disneyland and DCA during late August (low crowds, off season?):
* DD4 and I were visiting the gift shop in Tomorrowland, waiting for the FastPass time for our 6th ride on Space Mountain that morning. The CM chatted with DD a few minutes, disappeared, then came back with an "I'm celebrating" pin customized with DD's name, date, and "Space Mountain".
* waiting for "Instant Concert, Just Add Water", the benches were mostly empty, so DD4 picked one and laid down for a brief nap. Conductor Goofy saw her as he walked to his podium, so he tried to "conduct" her to wake up for the concert. My camera wasn't ready fast enough, but I will never forget the look on her face.
* queued up to meet Minnie in front of her house in Toon Town. Suddenly the line stopped moving and cast members asked waiting families to back up because someone was cutting in line. Goofy had walked across the street for a hug and a quick silly dance with Minnie.

What made these magic moments great? They were spontaneous and had minimal burden on other cast members and guests. (Sure, there was a parade of kids following conductor Goofy and he didn't conduct them like he did DD4, but he did give them a friendly wave before stepping onto the podium to begin his show.) This is the kind of magic that we can expect, but with increasing attendance and changing cast member roles, it is harder to achieve in WDW. If you have high expectations, then you should avoid attending WDW when crowd levels are large enough that all cast members (and characters) are busy working and serving other guests. Those days are few and far between at WDW, but can still happen on occasion. If we set our expectations accordingly, we will all have a better time.

EDIT: It is ironic to read that some people posting are expecting magic based on what they pay, but my most magical experiences occurred when I paid $75/night to stay in an offsite dive.

Does paying deluxe prices change attitudes about magic? I wouldn't know because I don't do deluxe at WDW.

 

[maxiesmom]

I would give the Disney restaurant managers a pass. Not because you were seated so late (boo!) but for seating jerkman. At some point it is better to placate the jerk, not for their own good, but for the good of everyone else. Better to seat him, calm him down, and keep his nasty mouth from spewing more garbage around all of the other guests.

Unfortunately that is sometimes the best way to defuse the situation.

 

[EnchantedTales]

Non-magical moment at WDW:
* Be Our Guest restaurant, where a guy wearing a "Proud Member of XXXX Police Force" shirt verbally abused fellow guests and cast members because he didn't have a reservation, but his kids were hungry now. My family of two had a reservation, but we still got the honor of waiting over an hour for our table, and this ignorant guest and his family of five was seated 20 minutes ahead of us. I respect the city of XXXX and Disney restaurant managers a lot less now...

As a CM let me say I have seen this happen too many times. Sometimes it depends on the manager in charge. Some won't accommodate a guest like that, and some will just because they want to avoid the situation getting worse.

However, if it truly upsets when an irate guest gets what he wants. I believe you should let guest relations know or write a letter to the company. Let them know that you are upset that just because a person makes a scene shouldn't get seated first. They should have to wait after everyone else that has a reservation gets seated.

also let me add that sometimes you can't keep up with guests. I have a friend that works in Custodial and I saw her while I was visiting the park. She had just come up from cleaning up the bathroom. Not even 5 minutes later I go into the same bathroom and it looked like a bomb had been thrown in there. There was a family there and the kids were playing with the water throwing papers everywhere. One was taking her pen to write on the walls. Where was mom? In the same bathroom just happily chatting away with someone else. When I exit the bathroom I went to my friend and told her that she better hurry and get to the bathroom before all the toilet paper was gone. She had to wait for the kids to finish doing the damage for her to clean the same bathroom she just finished cleaning. I'm sure that the guests coming in thought that this was poor up keeping on our part. But believe me we do try.

 

[surferdave]

I'm sorry, but I don't think that this is actually a contradition. What I am saying is that the little things that Disney may have been able to do once in a while for individuals might not be something they can do on a grander scale.

Furthermore, you're right, having secret things that only a few people know about is NOT a good business strategy for building a reputation, but it is a good strategy for making customers feel special and unique and building life-long loyalty.

I do think there is some logic to a company's reputation being dinged by people who were told that there was something magical that was going to happen and then it not happening.

I think we're talking about two different things.

I don't think Disney built the "Most Magical Place on Earth" brand through sprinkling pixie dust on every 1000th guest. They did it by being cleaner, being better themed and prettier and giving better service than the competition.

It could be that the don't get to do stuff like the paint brush thing anymore because you can't keep things like that secret, but if their reputation is tarnished it's because people recognize that the parks aren't as clean, the landscaping isn't as well maintained, the themes are broken up more often by construction, too many factors lead you to customer service to resolve issues, and above all the CMs are both fewer and less prepared than in the past.

I think your scenario may be true for why there are fewer little surprise things going on, but I don't think that's a big factor in any overall reduced satisfaction with Disney.

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't think Disney built the "Most Magical Place on Earth" brand through sprinkling pixie dust on every 1000th guest. They did it by being cleaner, being better themed and prettier and giving better service than the competition.

 

[GrtWtNorth]

As a CM let me say I have seen this happen too many times. Sometimes it depends on the manager in charge. Some won't accommodate a guest like that, and some will just because they want to avoid the situation getting worse.

However, if it truly upsets when an irate guest gets what he wants. I believe you should let guest relations know or write a letter to the company. Let them know that you are upset that just because a person makes a scene shouldn't get seated first. They should have to wait after everyone else that has a reservation gets seated.

Trust me, that's exactly what I did. I also copied my travel agent on my complaint so that they could address it through their own channels. Fortunately, that was the only blight on an otherwise nice vacation.

 

[fbb]

Nope. It is just too few people were taking advantage of it to continue to offer it. Bad business sense to keep a park open, and pay all of those CMs, for only a handful of guests.

Bad businesss sense to offer Splash Mountain during EMH, too. Thankfully they came to their senses and replaced it with the Tiki Room.

 

[norybell]

You don't get a good reputation by having secret good things that only a few people know about, and you don't lose a good reputation because too many people find out about the good things and you have to stop. The contradictions in this line of reasoning make it sound like a Yogi Berra quote.

I think we're talking about two different things.

I don't think Disney built the "Most Magical Place on Earth" brand through sprinkling pixie dust on every 1000th guest. They did it by being cleaner, being better themed and prettier and giving better service than the competition.

It could be that the don't get to do stuff like the paint brush thing anymore because you can't keep things like that secret, but if their reputation is tarnished it's because people recognize that the parks aren't as clean, the landscaping isn't as well maintained, the themes are broken up more often by construction, too many factors lead you to customer service to resolve issues, and above all the CMs are both fewer and less prepared than in the past.

I think your scenario may be true for why there are fewer little surprise things going on, but I don't think that's a big factor in any overall reduced satisfaction with Disney.

 

[tinksgilrs251520]

go on vacations and have fun expecting alot and expecting Disney to make the magic is not all on them... The magic is what you make with the tools that Disney has provided... Somethings have come and gone but some things are still there... Maybe you have to look a little bit deeper and open your mind a little more but the magic is still there its just in a different way now.... Sure the lines are longer and the new system may not be 100% but give it time its still new and things work out you just need to be patient.... So like I said just breath and have fun....

 

[Disneychick75]

I think we're talking about two different things.

I don't think Disney built the "Most Magical Place on Earth" brand through sprinkling pixie dust on every 1000th guest. They did it by being cleaner, being better themed and prettier and giving better service than the competition.

It could be that the don't get to do stuff like the paint brush thing anymore because you can't keep things like that secret, but if their reputation is tarnished it's because people recognize that the parks aren't as clean, the landscaping isn't as well maintained, the themes are broken up more often by construction, too many factors lead you to customer service to resolve issues, and above all the CMs are both fewer and less prepared than in the past.

I think your scenario may be true for why there are fewer little surprise things going on, but I don't think that's a big factor in any overall reduced satisfaction with Disney.