Are WE to Blame?

[mom2rtk]

I could see the paint brush thing going away because of the internet. "Secrets" in general are only useful when they're that -- secrets. If Disney hides 20 brushes on the island and some random kids just find them throughout the day, they found a secret. But once some site tallies up all the secrets and publishes them on the internet then it's no longer about discovering a paint brush. It's about a completionish parent dragging their kid there, digging thru the brush, then going "Hey come over here look what I found!". See, it's different when parents sit on a bench and kids roam around and discover something secret, but once the brushes are more about 20 parents rushing first thing for the "bonus Fastpass paint brush system" then the whole system is moot.

You can't really tell ppl "stop posting this stuff on the internet", cuz that's just human nature. You learn a secret? The natural instinct is if you will not be held accountable for it, then publish it for the world. (if someone tells a personal secret, that's different --because then you're accountable for who you tell, you have incentive to respect the secrecy of it).

P.U.S.H. is another example, it's great when it's something you discover and you are surprised. But when you read about it on the disboards and it's on your to-do-list to find and arrange so your DD can talk to PUSH, along w 20,000 other guests, now PUSH is just a mob and is not really the gem he once was.

Same thing w characters making random showings. Like Woody in Frontierland as others have pointed out, now ppl just start shouting Andy and what's he supposed to do. It doesn't work when it's anything but a little-known secret.

I know the general practice is as soon as you discover something, post about it cuz you want to be the one who broke the news and you know if you respect the intent of the secret, someone else wont, and they'll take what could have been your thunder. So anyways. Secrets don't work so much in the internet age. They were wonderful in the 80s because news of them did not spread the instant they came out, it took several years, books being written and published, etc.

The magic isn't gone tho, the magic just has to transition to things that cannot be so easily broken by the internet. Secrets that can be repeated to 20,000 guests daily.

So I'm curious. How did people know about the paintbrush thing before? I mean, people didn't just head to Tom Sawyer island at rope drop and stumble across them? So your issue isn't that people knew about it..... but that too many people knew about it? How is that fair? I mean, everyone needs a fair shot at stuff, right?

Sort of like fastpass, right?

 

[FLchick415]

Me and my family never go to Disney EXPECTING anything but a fun day at a fun park. But I am reminded of something that happened on our last trip (Dec 2013) in MK. It was pretty early in the morning & we had just gotten off of PPF and were walking through the Tangled restroom area when we spotted Peter Pan and Wendy looking for Pascal. So, we joined them. They talked to us and we played for a long time. My nieces got to skip along with them to their meet and greet spot. They got sworn in as Lost Girls for life! It was completely unexpected and I'll hold it as one of my most memorable trips ever because we weren't LOOKING for it. We just got lucky.

 

[Jennasis]

Are we to blame for expecting Disney to continuously operate and offer the same level and service of "magic" they used to?

No. We are not. Disney created the monster by being so great in the first place. For offering all those extra bits of magic and service. And when they fail to offer or simply cease to offer it, it is their own fault for creating the expectation in the first place.

 

[Jennybump]

I learned about the Tom Sawyer paintbrushes from The Unofficial Guide, not the Internet. So maybe some of it's not our fault. ;-)

 

[EMode]

So many thoughts are running through my head....and all i can think of is...if things are that bad and that expensive for some people, then why keep going back? I think that there are improvemnts that can be made in certain things...but lost its magic??? Really??? because of a restroom or not waking up tinkerbell??? ( my dd did get to do that, she also got to find nemo at the store in the boardwalk) both we had no idea about and completely stumbled upon them. We were asked to be in th Jingle Jungle Parade at the AK too. I think the YOMD promotion was what some are still holding onto, magical fastpasses, a stay in the Cinderella suite at the castle, or a DVC membership. I think we have to take the little things as magical, like the look on a childs face when meeting Ana and Elsa, or in my DD case opening a Vinylmation chaser, to me thats what its all about. So I can deal with some minor issues that are not the norm but I am card carrying member of the DVC, TiW, and AP club and will continue to go back every year somtimes more than once because to me there is no place like it ANYWHERE

That is great that you feel that way, but for some every little but of magic that disappears makes WDW just like alot of other places, and not THE place. Maybe (for my family) its because my kids are older and aren't as excited about things like standing in line for hours to meet the current "in" princesses, who knows.
I don't think its fair to dismiss other's perception, Disney magic is different for everyone so if pristine bathrooms are part of their magic then yes really it does have an effect on someone when the WDW bathrooms look no different than the ones in a Six Flags park. You may feel the opposite and that is fine, there is no right and wrong here.

 

[EMode]

Are we to blame for expecting Disney to continuously operate and offer the same level and service of "magic" they used to?

No. We are not. Disney created the monster by being so great in the first place. For offering all those extra bits of magic and service. And when they fail to offer or simply cease to offer it, it is their own fault for creating the expectation in the first place.

 

[Fractal514]

So I'm curious. How did people know about the paintbrush thing before? I mean, people didn't just head to Tom Sawyer island at rope drop and stumble across them? So your issue isn't that people knew about it..... but that too many people knew about it? How is that fair? I mean, everyone needs a fair shot at stuff, right?

Sort of like fastpass, right?

I think that my initial post is specifically about the ease of information available through guides and these very forums. I don't think it is inherently bad, as I've stated repeatedly, but I do think that it leads to situations where Disney is unable to continue something. I don't know how people discovered it in the first place, I know I read about it on the forums and though I was never able to find one, was happy to know about it. I'm not trying to say I'm above this at all, just wondering if our community here is part of the issue.

 

[MrInfinity]

So I'm curious. How did people know about the paintbrush thing before? I mean, people didn't just head to Tom Sawyer island at rope drop and stumble across them?

Well I guess that's the point. You didn't know about it. You went to Tom Sawyer Island because you wanted to go explore the island... not to go claim a fastpass. You found a brush... Wow. What's this brush? It's something you didn't expect, and just happened.

So your issue isn't that people knew about it..... but that too many people knew about it? How is that fair? I mean, everyone needs a fair shot at stuff, right?

I guess doing any hidden gem because you seek it out sort of breaks the concept of having gems there to be discovered by surprise. And the surprises are certainly not repeatable to guests en masse, so they get cut in favor of things that can handle the crowds that will seek them out.

So much of the things we love about Disney are things we just discovered! You know DeVine? At the AK? When we "discovered" her in 2010, it was awesome cuz we just discovered her in passing. She wasn't on our bucket list of things to do. It was just an in-the-moment discover. Had we not seen her our trip would have been no less magical, but the fact that we did, certainly added to it. A year later I think I read about her on the internet and just chuckled to myself... cuz I knew we "discovered" her, she wasn't an attraction we went to see. It's different. Maybe you don't think that way.

Sort of like fastpass, right?

Yep.

 

[mousehockey37]

It's admirable to say people SHOULD be responsible, sadly not everyone will be.

Once we were given our room number before it was cleaned. We opened the door and I was horrified to see how someone had left the room. It was such an insult to my favorite Beach Club.

The reality, some people are just not going to get it. God knows what their homes look like.

As sad as this reality is, it's the reality of the hospitality business now. Disney, Hilton, Holiday Inn, US, anyone who wants to be in the hospitality business must adjust. We can say to ourselves "people should cleanup after themselves". Yes they should and most of us do. Some never will do it no matter how many times we say it.

No excuses Disney. Keep Disney World clean.


Now I'm done beating this dead horse. Was that applause I hear ????

It's not a dead horse by any means. This actually correlates with what the OP is talking about. It doesn't matter what type of ignorance it is, but we are ALL responsible for keeping Disney World clean. So what if Disney cuts the budget to the point that they have 1 person to clean the park, we all need to help keep things in order, whether it's your job or your vacation. (cue recycling commercial of "if everyone recycles 1 bottle per day...)

I just want to clarify that the main thrust of my initial post is not to suggest that we are responsible for declining maintenance or sub-par service, but rather that special little things that Disney does/did as surprises for some guests may have become unfeasible due to them becoming common knowledge and folks expecting it, rather than being surprised by it.

I have to say I'm kind of shocked by some of the folks who aren't even willing to entertain this notion. It just seems like simple logic to me, but maybe I'm forgetting something or over-simplifying.

There clearly IS an element of this in play as seen in this very thread. The story about the young man who wanted to wake Tinkerbell is a great example. Now, thankfully, the parents handled the situation well, but that doesn't change the fact that this kid was disappointed by not being chosen for something that was never advertised in the first place. Had he not known about it, he would have instead felt lucky to be there when something special happened, instead of disappointed that it wasn't him doing it himself. And that is a direct result of us all sharing these moments and everyone knowing about the "secrets" of Disney.

Entitlement has ruined everything anymore. As people spend lots of money to go to WDW, they feel entitled to the "special things". Why? I paid for it, make it happen. When the honest truth is, regardless of who you are, where you stay, what you do for a living, when you pay money to go to Disney World, you are paying for a room to hold your belongings and sleep in as well as park gates to walk through. That's it.

Am I saying that Disney hasn't gone the way of other businesses and trying to squeeze the most out of very little? Nope. It's unfortunately looking like today's business model. Getting the best results out of the fewest amount of people possible. This in turn is causing all the other debates on the thread. If there aren't enough CMs to keep the park clean, how are there going to be "magical" moments outside of just basic housekeeping?

This.

I know this isn't a popular attitude either, but there are also little things we can do to help the situation. For example; yes it is an "automatic" toilet, but how 'bout turning round in the stall before you leave and make sure it flushes? If you have to pick up your dropped paper towel from the ground; grab a clean one and grab the other one someone else dropped while you grab yours.

After all, some of the best Pixie Dust comes from other guests. No, it isn't my job, but it can be my privilege. We all have "off days" and we are not supposed to do anything but mind our own manners, and keep from exploding , but on the good days, I can have fun in the parks and maybe make someone's day a bit brighter even if they don't ever know what I did, or that it was me.

BINGO. Sometimes you'll even have some extra magic if a CM sees you and takes notice of what you did. You have to remember, at ANY turn in ANY of the parks, you'll never know who you could bump into. You could bump into CM's that are in the park on an off day, it could be high brass in plain clothes observing things, a face character could be en route to somewhere and guess what... it all gets noticed and magic can/could ensue. I've read the stories before where someone was in line for something and they were talking with this "guy" and after their conversation, the guy pulled out paper fastpasses, introduced who he exactly was (pretty big brass at the time, I don't remember who exactly) and made someones day, all for a conversation in a line.

 

[SyracuseWolvrine]

Again, no disrespect, ARE YOU KIDDING ME! When I invite people to my house for a party I do not EXPECT them to clean up after themselves, I invited them and when everyone leaves I, and my wife, clean up.

Yes, but do your party guests feel that it's ok to urinate on the floor outside the bathroom if someone else is in there? Or to change their baby's diaper on your dining room table, and then just leave the dirty diaper lying there? What about throwing cigarette butts all over your kitchen floor? Take a whole roll of toilet paper and try to flush it down the toilet, cardboard tube and all?

None of these is acceptable for a guest in your home, but by your logic, it's perfectly acceptable for people to do at Disney, because they have people that are paid to clean up after them. (Side note: I've seen all of the above examples at WDW) Well, if the guests are this messy and disrespectful, then the custodial crew can't keep the bathroom at the same standard, because they have to spend so much time cleaning all the other stuff.

 

[MrInfinity]

I think that my initial post is specifically about the ease of information available through guides and these very forums. I don't think it is inherently bad, as I've stated repeatedly, but I do think that it leads to situations where Disney is unable to continue something. I don't know how people discovered it in the first place, I know I read about it on the forums and though I was never able to find one, was happy to know about it. I'm not trying to say I'm above this at all, just wondering if our community here is part of the issue.

I agree w you Fractal, including your OP. The internet, and particularly facebook, makes for the instant dissemination of news. If Disney does any secret gems to be found, the first Dis'er to find them will facebook it, it'll show up here, and w/in a few weeks there will be crowds trying to find what was meant to be a gem that can only be effectively show to a handful of ppl by surprise. So, such gems (like PUSH) are cut. It's not budget. I'm guessing PUSH turned into a mob more often than they wanted, and just wasn't very doable with a crowd of 100 mobbing him and shouting questions at him, then not making way as he tries to retreat to safety.

Thus, PUSH is only good if he comes out for 2 minutes, surprises 10 people, and retreats to hiding. But then you'll get parents who learn this... and so now they know he'll come out for 2 min every 30 min, so they'll stalk the shop where he comes out, hanging out right by the door. They'll "shop" around but the instant their eye catches someone else lining up, they'll nudge back over to their spot and plant, asserting the glare that says "My kid was here before you, back off".

Heh... I'm being deliberately over dramatic to make the point, but I'm sure everyone out here gets it.

Once PUSH is something you have to see, he's no longer the magical surprise that caught a guest completely off-guard.

 

[ellie05]

I don't think it is the forum the problem. I think the internet is the major difference. Many people planning Disney trips might never even heard about the Dis, but I bet you they have gone to trip advisor and other similar sites.

I can speak for my self I always read reviews before I book any vacation. However I think the service in WDW has declined since our trip in 2009. Our last trip was not a good one. We had housekeeping problems that were unacceptable and the hotel staff didn't seem to care. The parks felt different I don't really know why. I don't think my expectations of Disney are high or that I never have an issue. I worked in the hospitality industry I get mistakes happen no one is perfect, but I do expect a clean room and when it is not I expect the manager to at least apologize.

We go to Disney for the experience. For us until this last trip was friendly CMs and the "legendary" Disney service (this doesn't mean we expected pixie dust). We didn't get that experience our last trip we encountered many rude CMs. Some look plain miserable to be there. Our whole experience was just so different that we just decided we needed a break from Disney.

It is very easy in the hospitality industry to know who is trying to make a scene to get something and who truly does have a problem. Sadly I think our society has a problem of entitlement, just read a few threads here.

 

[mousehockey37]

I don't think it is the forum the problem. I think the internet is the major difference. Many people planning Disney trips might never even heard about the Dis, but I bet you they have gone to trip advisor and other similar sites.

I can speak for my self I always read reviews before I book any vacation. However I think the service in WDW has declined since our trip in 2009. Our last trip was not a good one. We had housekeeping problems that were unacceptable and the hotel staff didn't seem to care. The parks felt different I don't really know why. I don't think my expectations of Disney are high or that I never have an issue. I worked in the hospitality industry I get mistakes happen no one is perfect, but I do expect a clean room and when it is not I expect the manager to at least apologize.

We go to Disney for the experience. For us until this last trip was friendly CMs and the "legendary" Disney service (this doesn't mean we expected pixie dust). We didn't get that experience our last trip we encountered many rude CMs. Some look plain miserable to be there. Our whole experience was just so different that we just decided we needed a break from Disney.

It is very easy in the hospitality industry to know who is trying to make a scene to get something and who truly does have a problem. Sadly I think our society has a problem of entitlement, just read a few threads here.

I think the part that I bolded and underlined are important. The legendary service may be a thing of the past. As society and the world of business has changed, the trickle down effect from the top is now being seen and felt by the people you interact with daily at the parks.

In this case, yes, this starts at the top. If you bring in someone to run WDW that says, we're going back to the beginning and doing it the way Walt wanted it done, you'd probably see the CM's being put through the school without cutting the courses and people seeing smiling faces throughout the park with all the unpleasantness saved for "off-stage".

To look at the other side however, if everyone goes in demanding or expecting that they'll be selected as an Indiana Jones audience choice or they're going to force an action to be done by a face character to make something magical happen, you're going to see that the CMs are not going to necessarily be happy about it. Managers and supervisors are probably being constantly hounded about "this magical thing didn't happen" that they just don't want to hear it anymore.

 

[Momtomouselover]

My opinion is that there is a bit less magic than in the past and I think that is fueled by the cuts in personnel and the general feel of anxiety, change in culture, etc. as a result of said cuts and stresses of the new systems, crowds and new management style. However, it does make sense that certain things such as Miyuki and the paintbrushes at Tom Sawyer, waking Tink, etc. are gone due to guest expectations and in some cases rudeness. I certainly don't think all the magic is gone but with crowds and short staffing and problems (FP+, MDE problems) it is not as prevalent. I honestly think the extra magic and the atmosphere and customer service is a huge part of making Disney special and without it, it is a really nice theme park. Of course these special moments don't out weigh the necessity to keep the parks, bathrooms, rooms and public areas clean or the CMs smiling and happy.

Ironically I'm going to share a bit of magic we received from an unexpected source. My son was made an honorary janitor one evening. It was very late and one night we passed a janitor who gave my son a special pin, a janitor sticker and let him help sweep the sidewalk. Who knew?? Now, let's not all go mob the cleaning staff. Haha! Or maybe if guests were made honorary CMs we could help with the staffing problem, lol.

 

[FLchick415]

Something else I just remembered about one of our trips (and I don't even know if they do it anymore) but my nieces got to be Guest Conductors on the WDWRR. Just another one of those things we weren't expecting but it was a wonderful surprise as we just just wanted to take a ride on the train. So, for me, it's all about expectations (or lack thereof). If you go to Disney with just the mindset of having a fun day with your family, than anything extra that you just happen to encounter makes the day even MORE special. It shouldn't be demanded.

 

[mousehockey37]

If you go to Disney with just the mindset of having a fun day with your family, than anything extra that you just happen to encounter makes the day even MORE special. It shouldn't be demanded.

 

[emilyindisney]

Very interesting thought, OP! There definitely are people around DIS (and other internet forums) who read pixie dust stories and raise their baseline expectations of Disney. However, there are also people who read those stories, take them with a grain of salt and still enjoy their vacations all the same. I guess it's hard to pin down whether the 'Disney Difference' has decreased, or our expectations have increased. Maybe a little of both?

 

[BrianL]

I think the part that I bolded and underlined are important. The legendary service may be a thing of the past. As society and the world of business has changed, the trickle down effect from the top is now being seen and felt by the people you interact with daily at the parks.

In this case, yes, this starts at the top. If you bring in someone to run WDW that says, we're going back to the beginning and doing it the way Walt wanted it done, you'd probably see the CM's being put through the school without cutting the courses and people seeing smiling faces throughout the park with all the unpleasantness saved for "off-stage".

To look at the other side however, if everyone goes in demanding or expecting that they'll be selected as an Indiana Jones audience choice or they're going to force an action to be done by a face character to make something magical happen, you're going to see that the CMs are not going to necessarily be happy about it. Managers and supervisors are probably being constantly hounded about "this magical thing didn't happen" that they just don't want to hear it anymore.

But what about all the people who still receive Legendary Service? I have still experienced it on recent trips. Bad experience/service happens too; it always has. Is it just that more of the bad gets reported on the Internet? I don't know, but those saying that all the cast members are miserable hasn't been talking to the same ones I have been. That's the problem with anecdotal evidence though, it doesn't really prove anything (including my own stance).

 

[BrianL]

Ironically I'm going to share a bit of magic we received from an unexpected source. My son was made an honorary janitor one evening. It was very late and one night we passed a janitor who gave my son a special pin, a janitor sticker and let him help sweep the sidewalk. Who knew?? Now, let's not all go mob the cleaning staff. Haha! Or maybe if guests were made honorary CMs we could help with the staffing problem, lol.

Honorary Janitor? Disney can make ANYTHING sound great!

 

[luv2sleep]

Honorary Janitor? Disney can make ANYTHING sound great!

Um yeah that's what I was thinking. We would have passed on that I think!

Eta: nothing wrong with being a janitor but it would likely be late and I'd be too tired to watch. If it was early on then yeah maybe. It's a cute thought though!