I'm not wanting to start a big brewhaha here, but I'm trying to understand why the public is so outraged about these current "abuse" photos.
After 9/11, we all blamed faulty intelligence. "Why didn't we know beforehand?" was the public outcry. "Our hands were tied. Intel is a messy business and we couldn't do it effectively based on the restraints we had placed on us," was the reply. "Restraints be damned!! Don't let us be sucker punched like this EVER again!!" we cried. But we forgot to add (in our best Scarlett O'Hare persuasive breath), "But, I declare, don't let us know how messy it really is. Fiddle de de."
So how exactly do we Americans expect to gain knowledge of future attacks from apprehended suspects ? Remember these were not ordinary Iraqi citizens and this didn't happen at a refugee camp. It happened at a prison, where terrorists (and those suspected of having information about the terrorists) were being questioned about future plans. Where information gained about the terrorist organization could help protect us "Infidels" from experiencing another 9/11. Where the prisoners were more afraid of what the terrorists would do to them and their family if they talked, than of what our Intel forces were allowed to do to make them talk.
We weren't going to behead them and show it all over the news. We weren't going to electrocute them or put a bullet in their head, although it might be effective if they thought we might.
What we COULD do is strip them of their honor. Dishonor them by making them be naked in public. Dishonor them by making them subservient to a female. Make them fear for their lives by making it look as though they are homosexual -- for which they'd likely be stoned to death by their own people once let out of the prison. Better yet, take photos for blackmail purposes. "If you don't cooperate, I'll be sure these get sent to the media." Or to break down subsequent prisoners. "Do you want this to be you? How would that affect your family to see pictures of you like this?"
Based on the culture they come from, I can see this being pretty effective. And isn't that the point of all this? To be able to predict and prevent another 9/11?? Were these prisoners humiliated and subjected to mind games? Duh. That's the point -- breaking their spirit so they'll talk. Abused? No. Not based on the pictures that have so far been released. Tortured? Not even close! Some college campus Greek Weeks get worse than this!
Face it, we can't have it both ways. We either want the information and are willing to do what it takes to get it, or we want to be complacent and victimized once again.
I, for one, appreciate that there are Americans willing to give up at least part of their own spirit to help protect me. It cannot be easy to be an interrogator. It cannot be easy to purposefully create in another human being such mental anguish as to break their resolve. I would dare to say that these Reservists put in this position came home VERY different people than when they left.
But it has to be done. We've got to get the infomation. We've got to protect ourselves. We've got to do whatever is necessary, And if you say it can't or shouldn't be done, then don't you dare say, "How did this happen?" when terror strikes us again.
JMO.
edited to fix "O'Hara"
After 9/11, we all blamed faulty intelligence. "Why didn't we know beforehand?" was the public outcry. "Our hands were tied. Intel is a messy business and we couldn't do it effectively based on the restraints we had placed on us," was the reply. "Restraints be damned!! Don't let us be sucker punched like this EVER again!!" we cried. But we forgot to add (in our best Scarlett O'Hare persuasive breath), "But, I declare, don't let us know how messy it really is. Fiddle de de."
So how exactly do we Americans expect to gain knowledge of future attacks from apprehended suspects ? Remember these were not ordinary Iraqi citizens and this didn't happen at a refugee camp. It happened at a prison, where terrorists (and those suspected of having information about the terrorists) were being questioned about future plans. Where information gained about the terrorist organization could help protect us "Infidels" from experiencing another 9/11. Where the prisoners were more afraid of what the terrorists would do to them and their family if they talked, than of what our Intel forces were allowed to do to make them talk.
We weren't going to behead them and show it all over the news. We weren't going to electrocute them or put a bullet in their head, although it might be effective if they thought we might.
What we COULD do is strip them of their honor. Dishonor them by making them be naked in public. Dishonor them by making them subservient to a female. Make them fear for their lives by making it look as though they are homosexual -- for which they'd likely be stoned to death by their own people once let out of the prison. Better yet, take photos for blackmail purposes. "If you don't cooperate, I'll be sure these get sent to the media." Or to break down subsequent prisoners. "Do you want this to be you? How would that affect your family to see pictures of you like this?"
Based on the culture they come from, I can see this being pretty effective. And isn't that the point of all this? To be able to predict and prevent another 9/11?? Were these prisoners humiliated and subjected to mind games? Duh. That's the point -- breaking their spirit so they'll talk. Abused? No. Not based on the pictures that have so far been released. Tortured? Not even close! Some college campus Greek Weeks get worse than this!
Face it, we can't have it both ways. We either want the information and are willing to do what it takes to get it, or we want to be complacent and victimized once again.
I, for one, appreciate that there are Americans willing to give up at least part of their own spirit to help protect me. It cannot be easy to be an interrogator. It cannot be easy to purposefully create in another human being such mental anguish as to break their resolve. I would dare to say that these Reservists put in this position came home VERY different people than when they left.
But it has to be done. We've got to get the infomation. We've got to protect ourselves. We've got to do whatever is necessary, And if you say it can't or shouldn't be done, then don't you dare say, "How did this happen?" when terror strikes us again.
JMO.
edited to fix "O'Hara"
