Are they kidding???

[Ohiodislover]

Maybe we should wait with this discussion until he really dies.

I would not be surprised if he recovered magical and lives happily ever after.

I said the same thing to DH last night at dinner. Now that he has better Drs. and better treatments, I wouldn't doubt a recovery.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

He should have been left in prison to die, not flown home to be with his family. No one on that plane had a chance to say goodbye to their families. He'll get pain killers and other palliative care, when who knows what pain the victims of his bomb went through before they died. This is too good for him. Some people should never be forgiven. Especially when they commit completely heinous acts and will go on to be a martyr and possibly fuel other terrorist acts.

He caused more emotional grief than physical pain. I was listening to a radio show yesterday that was recapping what was realized--the pilots needed at least 5 seconds to get oxygen masks on if they did it quickly. When they were found--there was no evidence of any attempt to get the masks. The bomb was too quick and too damaging.

As far as this forgiveness bit--one has to want to be forgiven truly be forgiven.

Forgiveness doesn't mean that you forget.

Forgiveness doesn't mean taking away accountability.

If I forgave my children for every little thing they do but not hold them accountable to their actions--what would they learn, really?


As for his illness--the survival rate for prostate cancer in the US is pretty high. Amazing that he was in prison for 8 years and he's been declared terminal.

 

[Andy B]

I have read this with interest.

There have been 23 out of 30 approved applications for this type of release in Scotland since they had their own determination over this.

I believe that it is the duty of a moral sociaty to set the standard of good behavior.

I do not believe that Scottish doctors have fabricated their diagnosis of the man or that Libian medicine is better to enable a miracle recovery.

I would rather live in a society which has new testiment principals setting standards rather than old testiment , an eye for an eye, type.

In Great Britain a life sentance has meant a period of time rather than to be in prison until death since Queen Victoria was on the throne.

With regards to the political aspects, all governments make decisons for a greater purpose not least the US but the UK governmentactually refused to give guidance to the Scottish justice mnister on this (well done the Scot Gordon Brown!) and so he had to make the judgement call himself. He may well have been influenced by the clamour surrounding the strength or lack of the conviction which seemed to be growing.

With regards to the flight there are not direct flights between Glasgow and Tripoli .

 

[DaParkers]

I wasn't aware you had someone on the plane that was blown up in 1988. I'm sorry to hear that.

My sentiment about forgiveness remains, however. It's a lesson Jesus taught that people who say they are followers can't seem to grasp.

It's amazing when people pull one of the many things Jesus taught to benefit their point. What did he teach about obeying the laws of the land? What else did Jesus teach?

 

[lillygator]

She DID NOT imply that a relative died in the bombing...You are just trying to stir...we can ALL SEE IT.

 

[rie'smom]

I have read this with interest.

There have been 23 out of 30 approved applications for this type of release in Scotland since they had their own determination over this.

I believe that it is the duty of a moral sociaty to set the standard of good behavior.

I do not believe that Scottish doctors have fabricated their diagnosis of the man or that Libian medicine is better to enable a miracle recovery.

I would rather live in a society which has new testiment principals setting standards rather than old testiment , an eye for an eye, type.

In Great Britain a life sentance has meant a period of time rather than to be in prison until death since Queen Victoria was on the throne.

With regards to the political aspects, all governments make decisons for a greater purpose not least the US but the UK governmentactually refused to give guidance to the Scottish justice mnister on this (well done the Scot Gordon Brown!) and so he had to make the judgement call himself. He may well have been influenced by the clamour surrounding the strength or lack of the conviction which seemed to be growing.

With regards to the flight there are not direct flights between Glasgow and Tripoli .

Heaven forbid the terrorist having to switch planes! Isn't Muammar al-Gaddafi just the most humanitarian man on Earth to step up to the plate and offer his plane? Someone who backs terrorists and whose government accepted responsibility for the Lockerbie tragedy offering his plane to the convicted terrorist says a lot to me. After all, "birds of a feather flock together."

 

[hentob]

Well all can note that it was ALL OVER our news here in the UK about the heroes welcome long before KJJs post.!!!

Not sure what you were trying to imply.

He is trying to imply that he was not wrong

You know the type that would NEVER admit they are wrong.

 

[Took]

Well, no, actually, we are paying for this bloke's healthcare regardless of whether he is in prison or not. Remember that our taxes pay the health service and it doesn't matter whether he's in prison or in the community. And I think they said that only 23 people had been released in our country on compassionate grounds, full-stop, so that sounds a very small proportion of people in prison. At the end of the day, if it's the law here, it's the law here and whilst you might disagree with it (and I'm not brilliantly happy about it either), I wouldn't be too happy if he was allowed to just be electrocuted or gassed in the States but I'd have to accept it as capital punishment is the law in your country. Not every terrorist is terminally ill and suddenly going to be compassionately released but to say it's simply due to cost is frankly illogical given we've been keeping this chap for several years and already paying for his cancer care - his last 3 months of life is hardly likely to dent our budget too much versus the rest of the money spent on keeping him already. There also seems to be serious concerns about the safety of his conviction in the first place which is glossed over on this forum. I don't know the specifics but it's quite clear that the people affected by the tragedy in the UK are in two minds as to his guilt.

My bad. I wasn't aware that the system still paid for his bills. In the States, if a prisoner is released, he or she is no longer eligible for the prison's health care (which, ironically, is much better than that given to average poorer citizens). I don't think, given my understanding of the U.S. system, however, that my point was "illogical"--thought is may have been wrong since I assumed untrue things about the system in the UK.

 

[crashbb]

Well, no, actually, we are paying for this bloke's healthcare regardless of whether he is in prison or not. Remember that our taxes pay the health service and it doesn't matter whether he's in prison or in the community. And I think they said that only 23 people had been released in our country on compassionate grounds, full-stop, so that sounds a very small proportion of people in prison. At the end of the day, if it's the law here, it's the law here and whilst you might disagree with it (and I'm not brilliantly happy about it either), I wouldn't be too happy if he was allowed to just be electrocuted or gassed in the States but I'd have to accept it as capital punishment is the law in your country. Not every terrorist is terminally ill and suddenly going to be compassionately released but to say it's simply due to cost is frankly illogical given we've been keeping this chap for several years and already paying for his cancer care - his last 3 months of life is hardly likely to dent our budget too much versus the rest of the money spent on keeping him already. There also seems to be serious concerns about the safety of his conviction in the first place which is glossed over on this forum. I don't know the specifics but it's quite clear that the people affected by the tragedy in the UK are in two minds as to his guilt.

You're paying for his care in Libya?? Really? Is he a UK citizen?

 

[sbell111]

:That is so true. In America, do dying prisoners get released to their family?

Sometimes.

Regarding "life sentences", I don't think in either of our countries - UK or US - does that necessarily equate to full life as opposed to say 20 yrs. ...

Good point. According to CNN yesterday morning, his sentence was life or something like 27 years.

Actually, I think the "compassionate" stuff was just spin on the Scots' part. I do think prisoners are let out when they're dying fairly frequently so that the justice system doesn't have to pay for their health care. My mom worked as an accountant in a prison, and she said the medical bills on prisoners could often be VERY high. Thus, the system "frees" them when the prisoner is so sick that he or she is a) not a danger to anyone and b) would otherwise cost taxpayers a great deal of money.

I'm not justifying the action, just explaining that I don't think mushy "compassion" (however noble the sentiment) is at the root of the decision.

took

I think that it's just an unfortunately named term.

Well, no, actually, we are paying for this bloke's healthcare regardless of whether he is in prison or not. Remember that our taxes pay the health service and it doesn't matter whether he's in prison or in the community. ...

He returned to Tripoli. He's no longer in teh UK, so the UK is no longer paying for his care.

Well all can note that it was ALL OVER our news here in the UK about the heroes welcome long before KJJs post.!!!

Not sure what you were trying to imply.

First, my request for a link from KJJ was not an accusation. It was a mere statement that I had not seen anything about a 'heros welcome' in the news and would like a link so I could read more about it. She replied in a way that made it crystal clear that she was working on assumption, not fact. The fact that he had not yet landed in Tripoli at the time of her post further showed this.

I never made the argument that he wasn't or wouldn't be welcomed back with open arms. That is a spin that you guys are putting on my posts, without basis.

 

[Scurvy]

As far as this forgiveness bit--one has to want to be forgiven truly be forgiven.

Forgiveness doesn't mean that you forget.

Forgiveness doesn't mean taking away accountability.

If I forgave my children for every little thing they do but not hold them accountable to their actions--what would they learn, really?

I'm appalled that this guy was released. He should have died behind bars. There's a difference between compassion and idiocy. Compassion would be treating him well behind bars despite his actions. Turning him loose was idiotic. He is a horrible person and now there is no guarantee that he won't do something else horrible - with the support of his country if the hero's welcome he received in any indication. The whole situation is just disgusting.

 

[Disneyadore]

I'm appalled that this guy was released. He should have died behind bars. There's a difference between compassion and idiocy. Compassion would be treating him well behind bars despite his actions. Turning him loose was idiotic. He is a horrible person and now there is no guarantee that he won't do something else horrible - with the support of his country if the hero's welcome he received in any indication. The whole situation is just disgusting.

What else could be expected from a country that already has 85 Sharia courts?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196165/Britain-85-sharia-courts-The-astonishing-spread-Islamic-justice-closed-doors.html#comments

 

[snapppyd]

Mohandas K. Gandhi:
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

Then why even have a justice system? Let's forgive all the rapists and murderers and give them a ticker tape parade down Broadway

I think this is about oil. When one of the Manson girls asked to be let out of prison to die at home she was denied.

 

[rie'smom]

Then why even have a justice system? Let's forgive all the rapists and murderers and give them a ticker tape parade down Broadway

I think this is about oil. When one of the Manson girls asked to be let out of prison to die at home she was denied.

Maybe some of our mass murderers will move there because they won't have to worry about spending their lives behind bars.

I wonder what happens to child molesters? Maybe when they're released they get to work in a nursery school. Wouldn't that be compassionate?

 

[snapppyd]

Maybe some of our mass murderers will move there because they won't have to worry about spending their lives behind bars.

I wonder what happens to child molesters? Maybe when they're released they get to work in a nursery school. Wouldn't that be compassionate?

Well of course, as long as they say they are sorry we should forgive them!

 

[Mickeyistheman]

For those of us that are US citizens our laws are not Church and State.

In Scotland it is quite possibly very different. As those from that country have stated. Their Life Sentence is based on years not until death.

Like when Madoff got sentenced to Life it was 150 years or something like that.

I am shocked and appalled at this state of affairs. It's not like he killed 1 person either. This was an airplane full of innocent people going home for the holidays. He served only 8 years of prison time and well he is terminally ill, let him be home with his family. I will never go to Scotland. You will never EVER get a penny of my money for what you have just done.

As a PP stated, prostate cancer has a high rate of remission so what happens if in 3 months he beats it. Is he free and clear now to commit more crimes or help others do so? That would be my question and yes crazier things have happened. I would not be surprised if he fully recovers. But then again I won't have to look at myself in the mirror and ask what have I done. That will be on someone else's mind.

So very very sad.

 

[snapppyd]

You go ahead and be embarassed. I'm of Scottish descent and applaud the compassion they showed even in the face of someone who showed no compassion.

Isn't this what Jesus taught, after all?

Jesus has no place in a criminal justice system. Not everyone believes in Jesus and we have the right to expect criminals to do the time to fit the crime.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Heaven forbid the terrorist having to switch planes!

This struck me funny, in a very sad and unfunny thread.

 

[sbell111]

I think this is about oil. When one of the Manson girls asked to be let out of prison to die at home she was denied.

• The Manson girl was not serving in a Scotish prison.
• Someone posted that Scotland already has oil.

 

[dismom2]

For those of us that are US citizens our laws are not Church and State.

In Scotland it is quite possibly very different. As those from that country have stated. Their Life Sentence is based on years not until death.

Like when Madoff got sentenced to Life it was 150 years or something like that.

I am shocked and appalled at this state of affairs. It's not like he killed 1 person either. This was an airplane full of innocent people going home for the holidays. He served only 8 years of prison time and well he is terminally ill, let him be home with his family. I will never go to Scotland. You will never EVER get a penny of my money for what you have just done.

As a PP stated, prostate cancer has a high rate of remission so what happens if in 3 months he beats it. Is he free and clear now to commit more crimes or help others do so? That would be my question and yes crazier things have happened. I would not be surprised if he fully recovers. But then again I won't have to look at myself in the mirror and ask what have I done. That will be on someone else's mind.

So very very sad.

I saw the parents of one of the victims on TV yesterday. The mother said her husband battled prostate cancer, but now it's 10 years later "and he's alive and kicking in the green room backstage".

They also said that 60-100 prisoners die of natural causes in the Scottland prisons each year. Wonder why they weren't all sent home to die with loved ones? The terrorist was a former Libyan intelligence officer.