are the guide books "slow days" accurate

ohMom

Kids Get Arthritis Too!
Joined
Oct 8, 2001
Messages
7,363
I have been reading a couple different guide books, Birnbaums, Unofficial, etc and have come across days of the week listed as either a parks "Busy" or "Slow" days.

Just wondering..........does everyone else read these too and then the "Slow" days actually become "Busy"??? seriously. Has anyone else planned their park days according to this and been burnt?

I noticed whatever is EE that morning is usually a "Busy" day, and I had heard that trick too. Does anyone else avoid the EE park of the day for crowds??

We are going the first week of Dec - which shouldn't be tooo much of a problem, but i'm all about avoiding the crowds as much as I can!!
 
I think the books and even the website recommendations take into account the WHOLE day. The key to me is to go to Early Entry and then leave before lunch, maybe even by 10:30. There is a website with updated busy days. It's from the people who do the Unofficial Guide. They have changed the days they are saying are the busiest. I think it's Tourguide.com, but I'm not sure. Does anyone else know?
 
does everyone else read these too and then the "Slow" days actually become "Busy"???
It's not a problem, ohMom. Although we DISers seem like a large community, in reality the number of people who research and plan like we do is quite small compared to the number of people who attend the parks.

And the Unofficial update page is here

Good luck,
Erick
 
Interestingly, <A href="http://www.tourguidemike.com">Tour Guide Mike</A> and <A href="http://www.touringplans.com">The Unofficial guide</A> have confliciting information about this on certain days. I've consulted both and have to go with my gut. I'm going to take Mike's advice, and I'll let you know when I get back in August how it worked. Some of his advice is unconventional, so I'll either REALLY beat the crowds or I'll REALLY get burned. I can't wait to find out.
 

The only thing I know that no matter what season I went I use to LOVE MK on Sundays! It was not crowded what so ever and even though in the summer the crowds would grow over the day it was never too crowded! Now that they have made my sacred Sunday an EE day they have ruined it, there is alot more people for the first two hours, not unbearable just alot more than it was last year. And then by 11:00 it was BAD! So even though I always thought maybe Sundays was least crowded because of locals going to church and tourist traveling I was wrong! People do flock to EE morning! Hope you have a great time!
 
I have the same concerns about TourGuide Mike and the other guide books. It's frustrating that I have spent the money on these guides, and the information varies so much.

Also, the touring plans are so different. The Unofficial Guide says it uses some sort of computer program to do the plans, and Mike goes from personal experience.

My gut tells me to go with Mike. He takes into account the new fast pass rules and seems to use the FP more efficiently in his plans.

Does anyone have some advice about this?
 
I wouldn't worry too much about which 'guide' to use - the fact that you are using either one will put you ahead of most everybody else. I am curious about the day-of-the-week differences; I can see why seasonal predictions are off, but I'd have guessed that daily behavior wouldn't change.

I'm firmly in the 'Unofficial' camp, but even then I don't follow it to the extreme. I do think that touring plans help, but I'm not sure how much additional benefit they give once you know the basics: what days to go, EMH park vs. non-EMH parks, parade/show tips and what attractions to hit first - if you know these things, you're in good shape. After that, IMO, you are at the point of diminishing returns; and it's not like we don't already have enough planning to worry about. :p

Given the thread subject, I wouldn't be surprised if Len Testa - an Unofficial touring plan software guy - pops in with his sage advice.
 
It seems like most people, especially we planners and those staying on site, don't do just one park in one day. It would be nice if the guides, books and websites, would break it down to the best mornings, afternoons, and evenings. Len, are you listening??:smooth:
 
SwilPhil - I don't mean to sound like an infomercial for Tourguide Mike, but he does just that (break down best mornings and best evenings seperately). They do mirror each other, but not completely.
 
Hey folks,

Yes, I'm here. DrTomorrow, thanks for posting the link to the Guide's "Best Days to Visit Each Park" page.

Swilphil, I'm interested. Give me an example of the morning/afternoon/evening thing and I'll see what I can do.

I'm not sure how TourGuideMike does his touring plans or collects his data. I'd guess he's making his touring plans by hand. As we note in the 2003 edition of the Guide, the number of possible touring plan permutations is so large that it's virtually impossible for hand-made touring plans to be efficient. For example, the 21 attractions in the Guide's MK One Day plan for adults has 51,090,942,171,709,440,000 possible permutations. There's no way any person can sort through those.

Nothing against TGM - I subscribed; it's got potential - but unless they're parroting the Unofficial Guide (something not unheard of in the world of online Disney touring plans), I doubt serously their plans are as efficient as the Guide's.

To suggest the best days to visit each park, and to do touring plans, Unofficial Guide researchers spent about a week in each park, at least three or four times per year, for the past three years. This includes holidays, peak and off-peak times. In total, I'd estimate we spent more than two months in the parks over the past couple of years. You can imagine how much money this cost.

Every day in the park, researchers recorded the wait times at every ride, show, FASTPASS booth and restaurant every thirty minutes, from park open to park close. We collected literally thousands of pieces of data every day. Each researcher walked up to 30 miles per day. It was hard work.

We sent this data to our professional statistician for analysis. He helped us create "wait time" templates for each park and time of the year. This took the better part of three months. We've verified their accuracy in separate testing.

Lastly, we created some specialized touring plan software. As I noted before, this came out of my grad school research into scheduling problems. It took five years to create. Many university professors, almost all Ph.Ds, and experts in their fields, contributed research and ideas to the software. It's been described in two (soon to be three) peer-reviewed academic journals. We've got two patents pending on the technology. It's also been mentioned in some mass-market publications, the most recent being the May 26 edition of U.S. News and World Report.

On a not-too-powerful desktop PC (a 700 Mhz P-3), the software can analyze in the neighborhood of about a million touring plans per second, assuming around 21 attractions in the plan. For reasons I won't get into here, it's the *right* million touring plans, too. The software can suggest the best places to eat lunch, and include multiple breaks in the day.

On a reasonably busy day, the "Adult One-Day" touring plan in the Guide can save up to five hours of standing in line in the Magic Kingdom. This is an improvement of 90 minutes from the 2002 edition, which used an alternate technology that Bob helped create (mixed integer linear programming, for those of you with Ops Research backgrounds).

So, in summary, the Guide bases its recommendations on extensive research, performed by recognized experts and using state-of-the-art technology. I don't think any other Disney guide does this. And given the difficulty in putting all those pieces in place, you can understand why.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask questions!

Sincerely,

Len
 
Hey Slartibartfast, I'm lobbying to have the words "Don't panic." on the inside cover of the 2005 edition of the Guide. Not sure whether the DA estate would have issue with it .

Len
 
I love the guide. Even though usually we go in "off peak" times, we still use it. When we first used it in Jan, we got fast passes and everything, then we realized we didn't really need fast passes. They make fun souveniers anyway..


My dilemma, we're going this year in Aug (16-23) and then in Jan for two weeks(starting mlk weekend) Do I buy the 2003 edition now or wait for 2004?/ How much will change?? I'd like to not have to buy two. ( I already have a 1999 and 2001 in our camper)
 
Hey Camping Griswalds,

Thanks very much. For you next trip, I'd suggest the 2003 edition of the Guide - I don't think the 2004 edition will be out by August. The touring plans in the 2003 edition are much improved from 2001.

Let me know if you get the 2003 edition, and I'll provide you with a list of what's changed for 2004.

Sincerely,

Len
 
thanks for all that great info you guys! I really didn't realize how much was put into making those touring plans, guess I'll have to make some notes from them :) I just usually plan out what park and than we decide when we get there where to go. I'll make a better plan for our Dec trip I believe!
 
ohmom...just have to share a little story that I hope you find humerous!:)

My first visit to WDW was a 5-day/4-night visit in Sept. of 1991. I devoured the Birnbaum guide and meticulously planned our vacation. Since the guide said Friday was the slowest day of the week at MK, we made that our MK day.

Our visit to MK was fun, but we were awed by the crowds and the wait times. We went in the off-season, we were there the slowest day, and I remember saying to my husband that if these were the off-season crowds, I'd never want to see the summer ones! I can't tell you how many times I said to my husband "but Birnbaum's said Friday was the SLOWEST day"! By the end of the day, we were whipped. even though it was a few hours away from parade time, the parade route was packed with people. We later found out the MK was packed due to it being the final weekend for the Main Street Electrical Parade!!!! When I say packed, I mean MK parking lots filled to the brim and cars parked under the Epcot Monorail line!!!!

Moral of the story: Guidebooks are wonderful tools but can't always take into account the unexpected events that will turn their advice topsy turvy!;)
 
I was really impressed when I read how the plans in the Unofficial Guide were formulated, being a math kind of geek myself.:p

The one thing I wish they included, however, was more efficient use of the fastpass, AND updated information concerning the time required before a second pass can be issued. I believe it has changed to 45 minutes (please correct me if I am wrong).

That is the one thing about TGM that I like the most in his plans. He includes fast pass for planning ahead.

Otherwise, I really have gotten a lot from Unofficial.
 
I have a question about EMH during the first week in Dec. Since the parks close early, I wanted to use EMH to get more park time in. There is alot of advice to leave the EMH park @11ish and park hop since the EMH park draws alot of people. The hour park hopping (this is the time generally given to allot for hopping)seems to negate the extra hour gained!! So- am I better off going to the EMH park and staying, or going to the non-EMH park and staying. (Can you see I'm not into hopping?). Advise, PLEASE!!
 
Hey GinB,

I don't think the rules for FASTPASS have changed in general - it's either two hours or the time your FP window starts until you can get a new FP. The exceptions that I know of are Haunted Mansion (5 minutes), Jungle Cruise (5 minutes) and Tower of Terror (60 minutes). The software knows about these exceptions. It's also ready for the day that "Unlimited FASTPASS" comes to WDW.

Because of the backtracking involved, we generally don't recommend FP unless you're going to save around 30 minutes of standing in line. Those kinds of waits are unusual if you're using the touring plans in the Guide, so that's why you don't see it more there.

Sincerely,

Len
 
Len, your explanation of the analysis behind the touring plans absolutely convinced DH and I to go out and buy the 2003 guide. We have the 2000 "Mini-Mickey" which I love (and it shows in its condition!), but now I know it's worth getting the updated version.

Thanks for the explanation! I'll be visiting the bookstore tomorrow!
 
Originally posted by lentesta

The exceptions that I know of are Haunted Mansion (5 minutes), Jungle Cruise (5 minutes) and Tower of Terror (60 minutes).

I must be really out of the loop and I can't do a search to try to find the answer.
Can someone explain what this means?:confused:
 













Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE














DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Back
Top