Are funerals changing? (Spin off from church issues thread)

[disneyseniors]

We've opted for cremation, no service. Then scatter the ashes over places that are dear to us. I don't mean run off to WDW and scatter in POC, LOL. I mean in the countryside, for example.
I have never gotten any closure or relief from the traditional funeral services - the opposite was true for ME.
That doesn't mean it's for everyone.
It is a personal choice, always has been, and always should be. No judgement here.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I think funerals are changing primarily because people are isolating themselves from real life. They no longer have the capacity to deal with a body, they do not have enough friends in real life to actually get together and celebrate the life of the deceased etc. It is pretty sad really.

I can only speak to my own family's experience, but it's not this at all. Being in the room with a dead body of a very old person just does absolutely nothing to help celebrate their life. When my 92 year old FIL or 80 year old mother dies....it won't be a shock. They're both well within the "anything can happen" territory and nobody will feel as though they didn't get a nice long life.

I can understand this odd tradition more if it's someone who dies young, tragically or unexpectedly. Maybe in that case there are people who need to physically see the body in order to process their grief. But in the grand majority of cases, any of us who are still doing this are sitting in the room with an older dead parent or grandparent. It wasn't that long ago that the deceased was "viewed" in their home....in the "parlor", where family and friends came to pay respects. Anyone wanna go back to that?

I can also understand a 3 day "event" if it's someone who is a well known community leader, or someone who dies young....because they will draw a crowd. When it's the average person, you'll have the friends swing by, family...but not a huge amount of people.

Maybe the pandemic and the lockdowns made people realize that they had control over the these plans and that the funeral/viewings...etc, didn't need to take place immediately. Most people are cremated these days. That gives the immediate family time to grieve and then everyone can come together at a later date for a true "celebration of life". Makes so much more sense to me.

 

[ronandannette]

I think funerals are changing primarily because people are isolating themselves from real life. They no longer have the capacity to deal with a body, they do not have enough friends in real life to actually get together and celebrate the life of the deceased etc. It is pretty sad really.

Things change, personal values and community norms shift over time - Lord, don’t we know it? A major change in the area of death rituals is the result of fewer people holding to any type of religion, which used to dictate these things pretty decisively. I’ve worked in funeral service and by far, the most highly involved and inflexible rites and rituals are those of the adherents to Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhism. And they remain rigidly traditional still. Amongst their communities, regardless of age or location, the expectations and practices are uniform.

Here now, with our ingrained ethos of individualism, increasingly, anything (or nothing) goes. I also find it regrettable on a personal level, but one thing I learned for sure from my time in the industry is that the processes are for the living. They provide no benefit for the departed. I can’t judge harshly, but me and mine are all going out with a degree of pomp and ceremony, as have all our generations.

 

[BlueStarryHat]

There's always a viewing in my family. I have gotten used to it even though I don't really care for the practice. When my time comes, I want them to pin a button on my chest that reads, 'I don't look good, I'm dead.' My family is a little nuts so they'd find it hilarious. I told my sister I want her to play See Ya Later Alligator as people are filing past me, but I don't think that will happen.

After my viewing, I have it written down that I'm to be cremated and my ashes placed into the receptacle with my mother's. That's all I want, I don't even need a nameplate or anything to tell people I'm in there, although they can put one next to hers if they want to.

 

[Tink-osophy]

My family always had funny funerals because that's just the way we are, so I haven't noticed any new traditions. Except. When my Aunt Betty passed away recently, the funeral home that held the viewing did have an emotional support dog walking around for people to cuddle and pet. I loved that. That was the first time I had heard of such a thing.

I have it down that when I go, all I want is a viewing and then a cremation. I want most of my insurance money to go to my nieces and nephew instead of to paying for an elaborate funeral. I think most of all people have realized that you don't need to go out in style. I have noticed a trend towards the intimate with weddings as well.

And the dog is such a lovely idea.

 

[longboard55]

We had friends who son died at 50 from booze. They through the deluxe funeral with everything including pigeons, big after party dinner. Seemed like such a waste. He is not coming back, maybe you should have spent on rehab.

 

[Moliphino]

We had friends who son died at 50 from booze. They through the deluxe funeral with everything including pigeons, big after party dinner. Seemed like such a waste. He is not coming back, maybe you should have spent on rehab.

Unfortunately, rehab doesn't help if the person doesn't want it. You can't force someone to get sober.

 

[KayKayJS]

My dad died in 2020. We did not have a funeral. We considered it but I was completely in shock, it was the middle of the pandemic, and my dad really didn't believe in funerals ("You're already gone").

In the spring of the next year we did have a celebration of life for family at my house where we watched old home videos of him.

Death and grief are such a personal, painful time, I think it's good everyone can decide to do what's best for their situation.

 

[HopperFan]

Same here, told the DW and my kids if they put me on display, I'm coming back and haunt them all. Hate the viewings, "Oh they look so natural" no they don't, they look dead.

No viewing, no funeral and it's all in clear as a bell in writing that they can expect to be haunted if they do not honor my request. While it is nothing I want for myself at all, I also would never want my family to have to spend that much money. I have it written "if you have the need to piss away that much money, you all take your brother to Disney World for a wonderful memory of a trip." All in writing with my will.

I think funerals are changing primarily because people are isolating themselves from real life. They no longer have the capacity to deal with a body, they do not have enough friends in real life to actually get together and celebrate the life of the deceased etc. It is pretty sad really.

I disagree.

I think the halt to funerals during COVID allowed folks to sit back and think about their true thoughts and beliefs about funerals. And I think folks finally were brave enough, outspoken and clear about what they liked and didn't like. They were no longer afraid to tell the old school folks that they were not interested in the ritual. MANY folks for many years have not really supported the whole process but went along.

I don't think it has anything to do with bodies or not having friends. I think it is mostly because a very basic funeral complete costs around here are close to $25,000. And the guest of honor doesn't get to enjoy it like a wedding. My Mom died in 2020 so only the immediate family graveside. The cost was outrageous. The high price tags are driving more and more to cremate which is a fraction of the cost and therefore that is likely the reason there is no body to view, and a celebration can take place later. And that eliminates the thousands of dollars for a plot of land and marker.

I don't find it sad, I find it liberating. Celebrate the life, not the death.

 

[ronandannette]

I think this will come as a surprise to many, but I observed something very important during my time in funeral service. Many, many times, a family would be really struggling to stay true to the "wishes" of the departed. Whatever strongly asserted preferences the person had, whatever they were, for individual reasons caused a lot of angst amongst the survivors.

People who insisted on no service, when the widow or kids really, really felt the need for some sort of formality. Or people who had pre-planned formal services and the family just couldn't emotionally cope with the ordeal of it. Or the very real conundrum of burial vs cremation for survivors who find one or the other viscerally abhorrent. What to do with cremated remains? Lots of examples like this.

People think they're doing a kindness for their survivors by making all these pronouncements but often it is just a different kind of burden. My advice to everyone would be to at least discuss with your likely survivors what their feelings are and what they think they would want or be able to do. Do not demand full control. You will be dead and it really won't matter to you. Unless conditions are legally defined in a will, final wishes are moral imperatives only, not binding. I saw tons of times where families just went their own way and did what they could manage, emotionally and financially. I was secretly glad for them. Life is for the living.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I think this will come as a surprise to many, but I observed something very important during my time in funeral service. Many, many times, a family would be really struggling to stay true to the "wishes" of the departed. Whatever strongly asserted preferences the person had, whatever they were, for individual reasons caused a lot of angst amongst the survivors.

People who insisted on no service, when the widow or kids really, really felt the need for some sort of formality. Or people who had pre-planned formal services and the family just couldn't emotionally cope with the ordeal of it. Or the very real conundrum of burial vs cremation for survivors who find one or the other viscerally abhorrent. What to do with cremated remains? Lots of examples like this.

People think they're doing a kindness for their survivors by making all these pronouncements but often it is just a different kind of burden. My advice to everyone would be to at least discuss with your likely survivors what their feelings are and what they think they would want or be able to do. Do not demand full control. You will be dead and it really won't matter to you. Unless conditions are legally defined in a will, final wishes are moral imperatives only, not binding. I saw tons of times where families just went their own way and did what they could manage, emotionally and financially. I was secretly glad for them. Life is for the living.

That's a really good perspective. I think there is that thing that we think we're taking all of the decisions out of the mix for the survivors. I think a lot of that is very helpful when it comes to the actual religious service. What hymns....who does the readings....etc. And the pre-paying of the funeral makes things simple.

I know that when my MIL died, she did not want a viewing and so she was immediately cremated. It bothered my FIL a great deal that the "visitation" would have no casket in the room....because that's what he's used to I suppose. Just having her there in an urn didn't cut it, so we paid extra to have a casket in the room....had her ashes in there right up until the ashes were put in the slot in the wall at the cemetery. My MIL would have thought that was silly and a waste of money. But...she was no longer with us so decisions were made.

When it comes to him passing, as I've said....he wants the whole shebang. Multiple days of viewings (unnecessary), open casket then cremated, funeral mass, internment...etc. None of the remaining family will want or need the open casket.

I'd like to talk to him about it, but I will defer to my husband on this....that's his father. FIL has become more of a worrier in his 90s, and so probably best to just handle it when he passes. In the end, my husband will make the decision that he feels best about. I know we'll go through with the religious rituals because that would be unthinkable for his father....but the other stuff, as you said...is for the living.

 

[HopperFan]

That's a really good perspective. I think there is that thing that we think we're taking all of the decisions out of the mix for the survivors. I think a lot of that is very helpful when it comes to the actual religious service. What hymns....who does the readings....etc. And the pre-paying of the funeral makes things simple.

I know that when my MIL died, she did not want a viewing and so she was immediately cremated. It bothered my FIL a great deal that the "visitation" would have no casket in the room....because that's what he's used to I suppose. Just having her there in an urn didn't cut it, so we paid extra to have a casket in the room....had her ashes in there right up until the ashes were put in the slot in the wall at the cemetery. My MIL would have thought that was silly and a waste of money. But...she was no longer with us so decisions were made.

When it comes to him passing, as I've said....he wants the whole shebang. Multiple days of viewings (unnecessary), open casket then cremated, funeral mass, internment...etc. None of the remaining family will want or need the open casket.

I'd like to talk to him about it, but I will defer to my husband on this....that's his father. FIL has become more of a worrier in his 90s, and so probably best to just handle it when he passes. In the end, my husband will make the decision that he feels best about. I know we'll go through with the religious rituals because that would be unthinkable for his father....but the other stuff, as you said...is for the living.

Totally agree that funerals are for the living, and I go to those which I feel my presence would be supportive and important to them. And all that also hinges on if they have planned something that embraces people attending. Our goal always is, especially if they are sick, is visit them as often as possible while they are alive because that is more important.

We just lost a very important person. They lived out of state. We traveled to them several times in last few years as their health declined, and once they traveled and we met in between at beach. We got them out on the beach they loved, something they couldn't do anymore. We called regularly. Their children planned a last minute celebration (we were told it would be months out) and we could not go. But we were there for them when they were alive.

I see both sides and it's is a fuzzy line. The deceased wishes should always be respected unless they did not prepay or leave the resources to pay for their planned event. My grandmother actually prepaid everything to make sure she got what she wanted. That is probably the best route for those who want the whole big gathering.

My mother has prebought her plot (my Dad died before her) and had the money set aside to do whatever needed to be done. What if she didn't have a plot, wanted a viewing and big funeral. That would have cost $30,000 around here. So my siblings and I would have to pay for that? That is not a reasonable request.

It's hard but conversations must be had. Spent last week at our lawyer with our grown kids so that we are all on the same page going forward with our plans for everything, and our desires with healthcare and end of life decisions. We are still working out some final kinks (where do we go after cremation) but it's a tough conversation. Once you do it you feel so much better about the whole thing going forward.

Everyone grieves differently and there will never be a single decision that makes everyone happy, especially the deceased ... unless they prepay and arrange.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Totally agree that funerals are for the living, and I go to those which I feel my presence would be supportive and important to them. And all that also hinges on if they have planned something that embraces people attending. Our goal always is, especially if they are sick, is visit them as often as possible while they are alive because that is more important.

We just lost a very important person. They lived out of state. We traveled to them several times in last few years as their health declined, and once they traveled and we met in between at beach. We got them out on the beach they loved, something they couldn't do anymore. We called regularly. Their children planned a last minute celebration (we were told it would be months out) and we could not go. But we were there for them when they were alive.

I see both sides and it's is a fuzzy line. The deceased wishes should always be respected unless they did not prepay or leave the resources to pay for their planned event. My grandmother actually prepaid everything to make sure she got what she wanted. That is probably the best route for those who want the whole big gathering.

My mother has prebought her plot (my Dad died before her) and had the money set aside to do whatever needed to be done. What if she didn't have a plot, wanted a viewing and big funeral. That would have cost $30,000 around here. So my siblings and I would have to pay for that? That is not a reasonable request.

It's hard but conversations must be had. Spent last week at our lawyer with our grown kids so that we are all on the same page going forward with our plans for everything, and our desires with healthcare and end of life decisions. We are still working out some final kinks (where do we go after cremation) but it's a tough conversation. Once you do it you feel so much better about the whole thing going forward.

Everyone grieves differently and there will never be a single decision that makes everyone happy, especially the deceased ... unless they prepay and arrange.

Sorry for the friend that you lost. You focused on spending time when they were here....which is what is most important.

My in-laws pre-paid for everything as well. And both have detailed instructions for their funeral mass....readings, hymns, etc. I don't recall if MIL stipulated that she wanted multiple viewings, but my FIL has...at least in written instructions. However, when the final details came together for his wife, we settled on one viewing from 3-7pm....funeral mass and internment the next morning. That's all we'll need for FIL, and likely what we'll do. The only hitch in his plans is the open casket deal...which I will just leave to my husband. I'll support him in whatever decision he makes.

30K for a plot?! Wow. Completely agree that it shouldn't be left to the family.

As you've said, these family talks should go far beyond just funeral, but also get into who will care for aging parents, or at a minimum oversee care...etc. Trust me, that's another frequent topic around here as we're about to retire in our 50s. Best to figure out the details before a serious health event happens. We've had these tough talks with my FIL and my Mother....so expectations are set. Not fun...but absolutely necessary.

 

[HopperFan]

Sorry for the friend that you lost. You focused on spending time when they were here....which is what is most important.

My in-laws pre-paid for everything as well. And both have detailed instructions for their funeral mass....readings, hymns, etc. I don't recall if MIL stipulated that she wanted multiple viewings, but my FIL has...at least in written instructions. However, when the final details came together for his wife, we settled on one viewing from 3-7pm....funeral mass and internment the next morning. That's all we'll need for FIL, and likely what we'll do. The only hitch in his plans is the open casket deal...which I will just leave to my husband. I'll support him in whatever decision he makes.

30K for a plot?! Wow. Completely agree that it shouldn't be left to the family.

As you've said, these family talks should go far beyond just funeral, but also get into who will care for aging parents, or at a minimum oversee care...etc. Trust me, that's another frequent topic around here as we're about to retire in our 50s. Best to figure out the details before a serious health event happens. We've had these tough talks with my FIL and my Mother....so expectations are set. Not fun...but absolutely necessary.

No 30K would include the plot, the headstone, the casket, the vault, the body prep, the viewing and the funeral. I meant it as if we had to buy plot and do all the normal funeral stuff we didn't do. And this is assuming nothing special.

Mom had a plot (Dad passed many years ago). Due to COVID we did not have a viewing or funeral. We walked past the expensive caskets and got a rose gold metal that matched my Dad's grey metal. We got the basic vault because that is all that is needed. We did have her prepped because my siblings wanted their families to see her. The only plus in that was she was a shell of herself when she passed after a month in a hospital (COVID keeping out visitors). She looked like herself again and that was a good last memory. But it was only our immediately family who got 10 minutes with her before they took her to site. Funeral home was on cemetery property. Her minister, immediate family, 15 minute "service" and we all went home, no gathering.

So for my Mom's bare bones event ...
Body preparation for a 10 minute immediate family viewing
Casket
Vault
Internment
Headstone
Tent & Chairs for 15 minute graveside
$18,000
They said their worst plot in cemetery by road was around $6,000-8,000.
Then all the funeral and viewing costs ... adds up fast.


This just isn't sustainable except for the wealthy.

 

[dvcgirl67]

No 30K would include the plot, the headstone, the casket, the vault, the body prep, the viewing and the funeral. I meant it as if we had to buy plot and do all the normal funeral stuff we didn't do. And this is assuming nothing special.

Mom had a plot (Dad passed many years ago). Due to COVID we did not have a viewing or funeral. We walked past the expensive caskets and got a rose gold metal that matched my Dad's grey metal. We got the basic vault because that is all that is needed. We did have her prepped because my siblings wanted their families to see her. The only plus in that was she was a shell of herself when she passed after a month in a hospital (COVID keeping out visitors). She looked like herself again and that was a good last memory. But it was only our immediately family who got 10 minutes with her before they took her to site. Funeral home was on cemetery property. Her minister, immediate family, 15 minute "service" and we all went home, no gathering.

So for my Mom's bare bones event ...
Body preparation for a 10 minute immediate family viewing
Casket
Vault
Internment
Headstone
Tent & Chairs for 15 minute graveside
$18,000
They said their worst plot in cemetery by road was around $6,000-8,000.
Then all the funeral and viewing costs ... adds up fast.


This just isn't sustainable except for the wealthy.

View attachment 870261

Ahh, ok...30K for the works. But still...that's a big chunk of money. 18K for a bare bones event is nothing to sneeze at either. DH and I want next to nothing. We have no kids, so just cremation. We're not religious so nothing there either. Raise a glass to our memories. We'd also be clear that our ashes can just be disposed of....if that's an option. Nobody need scatter them or put them anywhere. We don't visit graveyards where relatives are buried or ashes are kept and we don't expect others to do that for us.

 

[ronandannette]

Ahh, ok...30K for the works. But still...that's a big chunk of money. 18K for a bare bones event is nothing to sneeze at either. DH and I want next to nothing. We have no kids, so just cremation. We're not religious so nothing there either. Raise a glass to our memories. We'd also be clear that our ashes can just be disposed of....if that's an option. Nobody need scatter them or put them anywhere. We don't visit graveyards where relatives are buried or ashes are kept and we don't expect others to do that for us.

Interesting!! Never once have I thought about this. Either personally or during my time in the industry, I never, ever heard anybody suggest "just throw them away". I wonder if there are any rules preventing it? I suppose there are probably some sort of bylaws that might specify you can't deposit human remains in municipal landfills or whatnot. I can't imagine a funeral service provider would ever agree to see to it. Unclaimed cremated remains is a BIG issue for funeral homes; they can end up warehousing them into perpetuity.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Interesting!! Never once have I thought about this. Either personally or during my time in the industry, I never, ever heard anybody suggest "just throw them away". I wonder if there are any rules preventing it? I suppose there are probably some sort of bylaws that might specify you can't deposit human remains in municipal landfills or whatnot. I can't imagine a funeral service provider would ever agree to see to it. Unclaimed cremated remains is a BIG issue for funeral homes; they can end up warehousing them into perpetuity.

Ha....we're oddballs on this for sure. We legit don't care what happens to our ashes. And we wouldn't want to ask our niece or nephews to have to deal with them...if that makes sense.

Maybe it would be easier to just say...."you guys can just sprinkle us in the ocean when you find the time?"

 

[ronandannette]

Ha....we're oddballs on this for sure. We legit don't care what happens to our ashes. And we wouldn't want to ask our niece or nephews to have to deal with them...if that makes sense.

Maybe it would be easier to just say...."you guys can just sprinkle us in the ocean when you find the time?"

That'll probably be the play, or formally write into your Wills that the executor of your estate is to do it. Safe journey - wherever you may end up.

 

[dvcgirl67]

That'll probably be the play, or formally write into your Wills that the executor of your estate is to do it. Safe journey - wherever you may end up.

Thank you!!

 

[DL1WDW2]

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