Are ADR cancellation coordinations really fair?

[kath1210]

No flames please. But to point out if the cancellation had not been coordinated another family unknown to you would probably been equally as happy. I am not saying it is wrong to give an advantage to a member of a cyber community but I do understand the view point that it does give DISer's a leg up over someone else.

Like I said the more I think about it a wait list of sort at least for the character meals and maybe some of the more popular places would be a good idea.

I have no problem with a waiting list. If there was one, we would have had that CRT reservation a lot sooner!

 

[Amyg]

If people don't do thier research then that is thier fault.

There are some people that no matter how much they want to may not be able to do the quick dialing at 7:00 AM eastern time. They could work the night shift or have just been slow in hitting the buttons. I do think they should get the next shot at a cancellation if one comes up. They made the effort but just were not quite quick enough.

I'm one of these people! I'll have to get up at 3:00 a.m. to make my ADR! Ugh! And to have to do this on a weeknight, that'll make me nervous enought not to be able to fall asleep that I might have to take that day off from work!

 

[HaleyB]

I doubt it matters to the overall system one bit.

The older I get, the less I care how anyone else judges me. It is my favorite thing about getting older.

 

[lucincia]

All the ADRs and cancellations - Three words - All Disney's Fault.

If Disney would just get their act together and post the hours and EMH prior to the 90 and 90+10 days, you will not have so many people making multiple ADRs and waiting for the hours to come out to fine tune the vacation plan.

 

[Tjaleks]

All the ADRs and cancellations - Three words - All Disney's Fault.

If Disney would just get their act together and post the hours and EMH prior to the 90 and 90+10 days, you will not have so many people making multiple ADRs and waiting for the hours to come out to fine tune the vacation plan.

ditto

 

[It's A Happy Day]

The way I look at this is: would you rather give up something to someone you don't know or a friend...Anytime I have something that I am willing to give up either because I have extra or because I cannot use it any longer I check with family and friends first to see if anyone wants/needs it...I view the DISboard as a place for people with mutual likes to congregate and give each other a hand, a shoulder, a heart etc. in plain english: "a friend"

I agree with previous posters that if you are randomly making reservations and then selling them or doing it for the primary purpose of only a certain group of people like those on the DISboards to use them then that is wrong - and I doubt alot of people do this with places like CRT that require a deposit 1st. But if you legitamately need to cancel one then by all means offer it to your friends and family 1st - then if no go then cancel it. I have done this 2x - given up a reservation for a fellow diser and gotten a preferred time slot from another diser. It made 3 parties (mine incl) very happy to know that they can now get the reservation they have been trying for 2 months to get and yes I did call every morning starting at 5:50am to get the much coveted CRT breakfast only to be told sorry earliest is 12:30PM. A waiting list is a great idea but I doubt it will ever get off the ground - too many people would be on it and too few seats.

 

[Nancyg56]

All the ADRs and cancellations - Three words - All Disney's Fault.

If Disney would just get their act together and post the hours and EMH prior to the 90 and 90+10 days, you will not have so many people making multiple ADRs and waiting for the hours to come out to fine tune the vacation plan.

I soooooo agree! I have been looking at last years hours and trying to plan ADR"s for my family based on those hours. I know that I may need to make changes, and whose fault is that? I would be opposed to using a credit card to gaurantee a ressie if Disney cannot gaurantee their hours of operation for the time frame that they have imposed for the ADR's. It is difficult enouf to try to plan meals so far in advance without having ot worry about canceling if necessary. As for fellow DIS'ers knowing about a "prime" restaurant cancellation, what is the problem? These calls go into a massive call center, and the calls to each CM are random. Very unlikely that this practice tips the scales in any way. Possible, but not probable.

 

[Pedler]

As for fellow DIS'ers knowing about a "prime" restaurant cancellation, what is the problem? These calls go into a massive call center, and the calls to each CM are random. Very unlikely that this practice tips the scales in any way. Possible, but not probable.

I don't have a problem with alert DISers to the cancellation but it does tip the scales signifigantly in thier favor.

Take for example if you were to cancel Chef Mickeys at 5:30 for October 15th. Once you cancel that ressie it is put back into the system. The next person that calls and asks for Chef Mickey's on that day at that time will be able to get that ressie. The advantage that the DISer would have is that they would know when to call to most likely be the first one to call after you cancel. While I am sure that hey get several calls a day for the popular places just knowing when to call in after a cancellation provides a signifigant advantage over others.

Like I said I don'thave a problem with letting DISer's know about cancellations but if it didn't provide some sort of signifigant advantage it wouldn't be as popular to coordinate cancellations.

Lets face it one of the primary reasons that places like the DIS exist is to provide an exchange of information to gain an advantage over the blissfully unaware. There is nothing wrong with that but it is what DISers and others do.

 

[Hodder]

There are so many points that I agree with and some I don't agree with. I do agree that the reservation system at Disney could use a change such as not being able to book multiple ADRs (if you want to change then you would have to cancel provious ones) and if you no show without 48 hours cancellation then you should be charged.

Not everyone has credit cards though, so not sure how that would work. I made a reservation without one (much begging). I will have to call 48 hours prior to confirm or my reservation will be cancelled and a charge put on my hotel (POP Century).

I definately agree about hours coming out and ADRs, but they aren't going to put the hours out 90 days in advance so maybe ADRs shouldn't be untill 60 days same as hours. As for the most popular characters yes I agree a wait list would be better.

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't have a problem with alert DISers to the cancellation but it does tip the scales signifigantly in thier favor.

Take for example if you were to cancel Chef Mickeys at 5:30 for October 15th. Once you cancel that ressie it is put back into the system. The next person that calls and asks for Chef Mickey's on that day at that time will be able to get that ressie. The advantage that the DISer would have is that they would know when to call to most likely be the first one to call after you cancel. While I am sure that hey get several calls a day for the popular places just knowing when to call in after a cancellation provides a signifigant advantage over others.

Like I said I don'thave a problem with letting DISer's know about cancellations but if it didn't provide some sort of signifigant advantage it wouldn't be as popular to coordinate cancellations.

Lets face it one of the primary reasons that places like the DIS exist is to provide an exchange of information to gain an advantage over the blissfully unaware. There is nothing wrong with that but it is what DISers and others do.

You're right, Pedlar, that there is an advantage knowing the time to call for a certain cancellation. My point was that in a call center, it is impossible to gaurantee that your call will be the call that secures that ressie. Nice advantage, and if it works, I also have no problem with it.

 

[erikthewise]

Give me a break! Why is it that there is NOTHING that can be done on these boards without someone appointing themselves the "morality police" and finding something wrong with it?

Someone was just trying to have a discussion. Why is that whenever people raise a morality issue, some people freak out and accuse them of being "morality police"? There are plenty of good points to make on both sides without resorting to that.

Jeez - some people just need to chill out!

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Lizzybee]

This is an interesting question. On the one hand I don't think I would worry about a cancelled ADR going unused at any of the popular places even during the slow times. I think there are a lot of unaware guests that try to make day of ressies at these places and wonder why they are fully booked.

On the other hand I guess the question is that if you are cancelling an ADR is it appropriate to give another person or community a leg up on getting it as opposed to giving everyone an equal chance? I can see the argument for not giving an advantage but as someone mentioned the mere existance of these boards and other sources provides an advantage over others.

I am not sure that it is any more of an unfair advantage than all of the postings and all that has been written on how to get a breakfast ADR for CRT. The unaware are just going to have a big time disadvantage over people here.

I will say that it is a fine line. Its one thing to legitimately change plans and offer up the info here that you are cancelling an ADR. It would be an entirely different thing if people started tying up ADR's solely for the purpose of giving them to DISer's. That I would object to.

Of course my thought is that Disney could just establish some sort of wait list with a credit card guarantee. That would help them avoid the endless phone calls checking over and over again for availability. Then all this ADR coordination stuff would go away and the poor person that started dialing late for Breakfast at CRT would get the next spot as opposed to someone in a seperate Internet community. Of course I also think they should have a credit card guarantee for all ADR's and have a no show penalty.

Just my .02.

This sounds like good sound reasoning to me, however until (or if) they change things, I see nothing wrong with people trying to spread some pixie dust by coordinating ADR cancellation/booking. Keep in mind, the person isn't selling the ADR or benefitting personally other than the good feeling of making someone happy and doing the "right" thing (cancelling if you can't make it so someone else can enjoy). Also, trying to coordinate doesn't mean that you'll definitely get the ADR, sure you have a better chance than someone who has no idea an opening is coming, but just as easily another CM on another line with another WDW-lover could snap up the ADR before the person coordinating gets it.

 

[maggiew]

I am all amazement with this thread. I would have never in a million years thought that coordinating ADR cancellations would be "wrong" (and I like to think I am an honest person.) I do agree that booking CRT and selling it on eBay or something is wrong.

But I see no problem with coordinating times with a fellow DISer. I am sure that the number of people who might do this is a FRACTION of the people who go to WDW. I do not think it has a big impact to the "average joe" at all. Do you know how many people show up at a restaurant at WDW trying to get in because they do not know about making advance reservations??? Personally I do not know how this is possible with all the information available, but I have seen it with my own eyes at nearly every restaurant we went to.

I agree that just by reading the DIS boards you have an "unfair" advantage. What about the tips on getting CRT? What about the tips on going to LTT before MVMCP to get into the park a little early without regular admission ticket? What about the special deals on tickets we find out about? etc. I do not see coordinating ADR cancellation times as anything different.

Maggie

 

[LIFERBABE]

I approached this subject, because right now it is a small occurrence to coordinate cancellations on the DIS, and I asked the question is it fair. I don't think I made it a morality issue if I did, that was not my intent.

My point is, that being a Diser for many years, I have seen the effects and yes benefitted tremendously from being a part of this community. I too, did not have an issue with ADR coordinations initially (and still don't), but it will continue to grow like all good things and then we will have a significant impact on the system.

Yes we do have an advantage, a powerhouse advantage over most WDW planners.

But it is like the stock market, as long as everyone has equal access to the information it is fair. But when the head of IMCLONE calls you and tells you to sell tomorrow at 9am that is an unfair advantage.

I've spread my share of Pixie Dust and received it tenfold but to say this community has little impact on WDW policies is a bit misleading. Meal Vouchers, Best Rate, Akershus, Garden Grill, Star Taxi and Limo, are just a few examples of our influence positive and negative.

Many people complained that the Free Diners were taking up the TS ADR's. With the 90+10 system, it is possible that more and more of us will have to rely on cancellation coordinations to get preferred ressies as they will be booked long before we are able to call.

I don't question anyone's motives, but there are thousands of people that read these boards and never post and what will they do with this information?

And I agree with Erik, there are plenty of good points on both sides.

IMHO, An ADR is like a place in line, if you decide to get out of line, do you get to pick a family not in line to take your place?

 

[NCombs]

I don't question anyone's motives, but there are thousands of people that read these boards and never post and what will they do with this information?

I don't get what this means. Could explain what you are talking about?

 

[crisi]

Give me a break! Why is it that there is NOTHING that can be done on these boards without someone appointing themselves the "morality police" and finding something wrong with it?

We are a community, a "family" of sorts, so why not help each other out? It is true that Disney makes it tough on us, allowing ADRs 90 days out, but only posting hours 60 days out or less in many cases.

While I don't think there is anything wrong with coordinating cancellations, I do think that our little "community" is only part of a bigger, larger community of Disney vacationers. There is also the matter of me not necessarily liking everyone in this "family" or knowing everyone - there are many posters here who I don't know (its ok, I'm sure not everyone likes me either - and more don't know me). So I'm really putting my reservation up for grabs to someone that "hangs on the same board I do that I may or may not actually know or like" which to me is no better or worse that letting my reservation go to "random stranger going to Disney."

This board provides a lot of advantages in terms of knowledge. But I won't post cancellations. I don't find anyone here any more deserving than the random stranger. If anything, anyone here who has been paying attention in most cases (there are exceptions) has very little excuse for not knowing that they need to make their plans months in advance. I do feel sorry for the "oops, its three weeks out and I didn't make reservations and now can't get in" posts. I feel more sorry for the people that really weren't informed because they weren't here getting up to the minute updates on how competative ADRs have become and three years ago got everything they wanted booking three weeks out.

 

[Hodder]

There are so many good points here. I guess you just do what you feel is best. If you want to post your cancellation then go ahead.

I booked all of mine without the hours being posted and even though some of mine aren't at the best times and I could have scheduled better with the hours out it didn't impact me that much.

Also I don't think of it as morality police anywhere, just differing opinions.

 

[kath1210]

Main Entry: 1mor·al
1 a : of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ETHICAL <moral judgments> b : expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior <a moral poem> c : conforming to a standard of right behavior d : sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment <a moral obligation> e : capable of right and wrong action <a moral agent>
2 : probable though not proved : VIRTUAL <a moral certainty>
3 : having the effects of such on the mind, confidence, or will <a moral victory> <moral support>
- mor·al·ly /-&-lE/ adverb
synonyms MORAL, ETHICAL, VIRTUOUS, RIGHTEOUS, NOBLE mean conforming to a standard of what is right and good. MORAL implies conformity to established sanctioned codes or accepted notions of right and wrong <the basic moral values of a community>. ETHICAL may suggest the involvement of more difficult or subtle questions of rightness, fairness, or equity <committed to the highest ethical principles>. VIRTUOUS implies the possession or manifestation of moral excellence in character <not a religious person, but virtuous nevertheless>. RIGHTEOUS stresses guiltlessness or blamelessness and often suggests the sanctimonious <wished to be righteous before God and the world>. NOBLE implies moral eminence and freedom from anything petty, mean, or dubious in conduct and character <had the noblest of reasons for seeking office>.

 

[kymberwolf]

I approached this subject, because right now it is a small occurrence to coordinate cancellations on the DIS, and I asked the question is it fair. I don't think I made it a morality issue if I did, that was not my intent.

My point is, that being a Diser for many years, I have seen the effects and yes benefitted tremendously from being a part of this community. I too, did not have an issue with ADR coordinations initially (and still don't), but it will continue to grow like all good things and then we will have a significant impact on the system.

Yes we do have an advantage, a powerhouse advantage over most WDW planners.

But it is like the stock market, as long as everyone has equal access to the information it is fair. But when the head of IMCLONE calls you and tells you to sell tomorrow at 9am that is an unfair advantage.

I've spread my share of Pixie Dust and received it tenfold but to say this community has little impact on WDW policies is a bit misleading. Meal Vouchers, Best Rate, Akershus, Garden Grill, Star Taxi and Limo, are just a few examples of our influence positive and negative.

Many people complained that the Free Diners were taking up the TS ADR's. With the 90+10 system, it is possible that more and more of us will have to rely on cancellation coordinations to get preferred ressies as they will be booked long before we are able to call.

I don't question anyone's motives, but there are thousands of people that read these boards and never post and what will they do with this information?

And I agree with Erik, there are plenty of good points on both sides.

IMHO, An ADR is like a place in line, if you decide to get out of line, do you get to pick a family not in line to take your place?

... your analogy of "picking a family not in line to take your place," is the most precise description of the issue. It could be considered a morality issue (heaven forbid we be accused of being moral for fear of being labeled "the morality police"), but it certainly IS an ethical issue. IMNSHO, giving ANYone an advantage over another is unethical and ultimately, immoral.

 

[tlbwriter]

... your analogy of "picking a family not in line to take your place," is the most precise description of the issue. It could be considered a morality issue (heaven forbid we be accused of being moral for fear of being labeled "the morality police"), but it certainly IS an ethical issue. IMNSHO, giving ANYone an advantage over another is unethical and ultimately, immoral.

I don't think coordinating the "transfer" of an ADR that I made in good faith is any more unethical or immoral than offering my daughter's outgrown clothing to my friends before I put them in a garage sale. Now, if I were to make tons of ADRs that I had no intention of using just so I could pass them on to my buddies, that would be different.