AP's to get 20 FP+ per quarter

[bcrook]

This newspaper story might also give a hint about the future.

If dynamic pricing is instituted, wouldn't that make non expiration tickets obsolete? Any connection to the non-expiration tickets being taken off the web page?

And what would dynamic pricing mean for Annual passes?

 

[doconeill]

This newspaper story might also give a hint about the future.

If dynamic pricing is instituted, wouldn't that make non expiration tickets obsolete? Any connection to the non-expiration tickets being taken off the web page?

And what would dynamic pricing mean for Annual passes?

Speculation, but I can see how No Expiration tickets might be a complication when it comes to FP+/RFID.

 

[boBQuincy]

Dynamic pricing (per park) could provide load leveling. If Disney knows that MK is busy on Saturday but Epcot is quiet they could offer reduced price park passes for Epcot that day. A $20 savings (or free dining at the selected park) might entice a decent number of guests to go to a different park that day.

The downside is that no park will be exceptionally quiet and our touring plan websites will be about useless. I see some potential benefits from FP+/Next Gen and think it will be a good thing for most park guests overall.
As usual, until WDW actually announces anything all of these speculations are about useless too.

 

[Laketravis]

After reading several articles on this, you have to be right on yield management. This does reinforce the idea that none of this FP + is about providing a new and exciting attraction or experience for guests. It is about changing the management model. Marketing may be able to spin it, but it is what is.

Can you suggest any good articles on yield management in the theme park industry?

It looks like you found some of the same ones that I ran across. It also appears that this isn't Disney's first rodeo with the concept. Devout golfers are probably familiar with "OpenTee". OpenTees yield management functionality was developed as a joint project with WDW, and was designed to support Disneys extensive revenue management requirements at the five championship courses.

So now they are going to apply it to the parks. Makes sense - Disney is as aware of anyone how ridiculous wait times have become, the level of crowd hysteria that mad dashes for FP's creates, etc....

$1 billion can only construct a few whiz-bang attractions in one or more parks and tend to aggravate a situation they were intended to address - more headliners to reduce pressure on other headliners only increase demand for all headliners. So it's better spent developing a dynamic technology that manages reservation/booking/crowd/revenue/experience control over a fixed amount of assets with known capacity limits.

Now what they are doing makes sense to me, and it's getting easier to anticipate what the true options are with higher accuracy. RFID readers outside HOP? You bet - everything becomes an experience that can be presented as an option, in a controlled manner of time, at an elastic price based on demand. It's how airlines manage to put a butt in almost every seat regardless of departure time or city.

Whether or not Disney implements some or all of the abilities they create and how is a function of management, who may decide to try them all on a limited basis so they can cherry pick the best results.

From a technology standpoint, what they are doing is fascinating and will no doubt be adopted (licensed?) to other industries as well.

 

[bcrook]

Dynamic pricing (per park) could provide load leveling. If Disney knows that MK is busy on Saturday but Epcot is quiet they could offer reduced price park passes for Epcot that day. A $20 savings (or free dining at the selected park) might entice a decent number of guests to go to a different park that day.

The downside is that no park will be exceptionally quiet and our touring plan websites will be about useless. I see some potential benefits from FP+/Next Gen and think it will be a good thing for most park guests overall.
As usual, until WDW actually announces anything all of these speculations are about useless too.

I think that the FP+ is designed to nullify touring plans (bad for us, but smart for management). For example, if some knowledgeable veterans like you and I have figured out a way to use the system to our advantage, why not market this to all guests. If a certain ride is usually a walk on at a certain time, then it is underutilized. FP+ can get people to that ride and balance out demand. Same thing with times throughout the day. The one guarantee for me is at DAK. After 3:00 the park starts emptying. It is easy to walk on most rides two hours before closing. With FP+, there will be a mechanism to get people to stay later at DAK or at least show up later and take advantage of the under utilized rides and attractions at that time.

 

[doconeill]

Rather than tiered pricing, they could use FP+ as incentive to draw people to other parks, by offering more experiences.

Low crowd day at Epcot? Add a couple more FP+ in each group...

 

[Cinderumbrella]

I think that the FP+ is designed to nullify touring plans (bad for us, but smart for management). For example, if some knowledgeable veterans like you and I have figured out a way to use the system to our advantage, why not market this to all guests. If a certain ride is usually a walk on at a certain time, then it is underutilized. FP+ can get people to that ride and balance out demand. Same thing with times throughout the day. The one guarantee for me is at DAK. After 3:00 the park starts emptying. It is easy to walk on most rides two hours before closing. With FP+, there will be a mechanism to get people to stay later at DAK or at least show up later and take advantage of the under utilized rides and attractions at that time.

Perhaps, but they are going to have to offer a lot more than 4 per day to achieve that balance. I can't imagine anyone with any vague knowledge of the park picking Hall of Presidents as one of their 4 vs PotC or Jungle Cruise (much less one of the Mountains)

 

[mesaboy2]

I think that is a very real possiility.

A certain subset of the population will be easily manipulated. But I don't think it's a large enough subset.

Oh, the responses I could come up with here. I'll pass.

 

[larryz]

Dynamic pricing (per park) could provide load leveling. If Disney knows that MK is busy on Saturday but Epcot is quiet they could offer reduced price park passes for Epcot that day. A $20 savings (or free dining at the selected park) might entice a decent number of guests to go to a different park that day.

Yeah, you might as well just give them your bank account number right now. Anyone who hasn't done that already, raise your hand...

 

[Laketravis]

Do you really think WDW put wifi in the parks so we could all access Facebook?

Nope. It's just one of many building blocks that need to be in place for the ultimate program.

Many of the questions on the survey they sent me after participating in the FP+ test had to do with if and what mobile device I carried, whether I used it to check websites or relied on it for text alerts, whether I preferred websites, text messages, or email.......etc.

The emphasis on whether or not I'm "plugged in" and how while at a park plays into a real-time queue prompt. Meaning, software is calculating attraction advertising geared towards my preferences and current park conditions.

We are all assuming that we will have to go online days or weeks ahead of time and only be able to reserve NN number of attractions. Maybe. But that might just be a temporary element constructed to collect data points. It doesn't mean it will be the final result or the sole method.

Instead, based on a database of past experiences and solicited preferences, WDW knows I'm a big fan of __________ attraction. It also knows I'm in the park that day, and the current standby time is under 5 minutes for that attraction.

I get a text. I accept or decline the FP. It's a push, not a pull.

"But not everybody carries a smartphone!". Of course not, but many do and more are every day. And for the diminishing minority that don't, they might be handed a device at the turnstyle much like a coaster pager.

"But what about groups and families? Everbody would be getting different solicitations for different things at different times". Not really - software can do some pretty slick stuff, and the FP+ website introduced a group/friend concept that linked people together.

 

[bcrook]

Perhaps, but they are going to have to offer a lot more than 4 per day to achieve that balance. I can't imagine anyone with any vague knowledge of the park picking Hall of Presidents as one of their 4 vs PotC or Jungle Cruise (much less one of the Mountains)

I think Laketravis just answered that question.

Oh, the responses I could come up with here. I'll pass.

Can you send some in a PM? I bet they are good!

Rather than tiered pricing, they could use FP+ as incentive to draw people to other parks, by offering more experiences.

Low crowd day at Epcot? Add a couple more FP+ in each group...

And we already know those days don't we. The crowd planning calendars are very good. Is this another bad sign for EMH? Those calendars are based on EMH.

 

[larryz]

It can also be pointed out that the rumors have said just about everything.

They haven't said this (yet, that I've seen)...

This is just a testing phase. Perhaps they're keeping the available set of FP+s down to just four per day to test the data flow and network infrastructure?

Has anyone give hard evidence that they won't expand the set of FP+s available to one per hour, or 8 per day? After all, if EVERY attraction is FP+, then they'll need to expand the pool of available FP+s for each guest beyond four.

Remember, this is Disney, and they'll do what they want/can to keep the guests happy. And it's still too early to make any kind of a SWAG on how this will work.

More insight from true insiders would be helpful.

Leave. Fastpass. Alone (!!!!)

Too. Late.

 

[bcrook]

They haven't said this (yet, that I've seen)...

This is just a testing phase. Perhaps they're keeping the available set of FP+s down to just four per day to test the data flow and network infrastructure?

Has anyone give hard evidence that they won't expand the set of FP+s available to one per hour, or 8 per day? After all, if EVERY attraction is FP+, then they'll need to expand the pool of available FP+s for each guest beyond four.

Remember, this is Disney, and they'll do what they want/can to keep the guests happy. And it's still too early to make any kind of a SWAG on how this will work.

More insight from true insiders would be helpful.

. Yes they will. But they are also quite confident in making changes that won't make people happy, like cutting an hour of EMH, lowering pap store discounts, or raising the price of TIW, Charging $45.00 for a buffet in June, and any number of other changes people could list. People absorb it and move on.

 

[MichiganDVC]

True! And maybe assigned times.

Some have mentioned that Disney wants people to spend extra time shopping and dining and just "smelling the roses". That might be fine for some visitors but we don't all tour the same. We all have preferences as to how (and when) we want to enjoy WDW activities and sights.

Besides wasn't there some mention of some dining and parades and so on being included in the Fastpass+ system too? If that comes to pass we might all end up running into each other in the Emporium for much of the day.

Another thing, I can't see leaving those who stay offsite out of this or charging them a fortune to participate. Many who visit WDW stay offsite for budget reasons or size of family reasons or whatever. It seems bizarre to expect many of these people to fork over even more dollars to potentially get fastpasses for four rides each day with some of them not even being headliners. If any in fact. Offsite visitors already have the potential to spend more on passes and dining and certainly extras such as parking. I bet that Disney makes a good bit on them already and I can't see them wanting to potentially cause them to possibly spend their vacation dollars elsewhere.

All conjecture, I know.

Perhaps, Disney is realizing that if they can get a few more people to stay at their resorts ($$$ for them) despite losing a few people who will now "spend their dollars elsewhere," they'll win in the end. What's the cost of a ticket? Anywhere from $60-$90 a day, based on the number of days you bought. Well, if they lose a family of 5 from buying park tickets because they are furious with the FP+ system, then they're out $375. But if they can get another family of 5 to stay on-site, that's anywhere from $100-$300 a night. So in 2-3 nights, they've made up the money they've lost from the family that chose to "spend their dollars elsewhere."

Since I only stay in Deluxe, as DVC and then on cash when my points inevitably run out, I cannot say they are as crappy as everyone else does. To be able to walk to Epcot and HS from Boardwalk area resorts, or take quick monorail/boat from MK hotels, is worth WAY more than staying at the Waldorf-Astoria!! JMO I guess...

 

[Cinderumbrella]

They haven't said this (yet, that I've seen)...

This is just a testing phase. Perhaps they're keeping the available set of FP+s down to just four per day to test the data flow and network infrastructure?

Has anyone give hard evidence that they won't expand the set of FP+s available to one per hour, or 8 per day? After all, if EVERY attraction is FP+, then they'll need to expand the pool of available FP+s for each guest beyond four.

As I continue to say, I truly hope 4 is NOT the final number and is just a manageable number for collecting data.

4 may work fine in January when the parks are open for 12 hours or less but not in the peak seasons when they are open 15+


FWIW, even a text from My Disney Experience that Stitch has a zero minute wait on Christmas Day isn't enough to make me go sit through that again

 

[larryz]

FWIW, even a text from My Disney Experience that Stitch has a zero minute wait on Christmas Day isn't enough to make me go sit through that again

I would guess that Stitch will be the one exception to the rule about multiple FP+'s...

 

[Laketravis]

"Accept this FP for Stitch now and get a free Mickey Pretzel....."

 

[Cinderumbrella]

"Accept this FP for Stitch now and get a free Mickey Pretzel....."

No thanks

I will buy my own pretzel and not have to suffer through Stitch and vomit breath...

 

[awoogala]

Why are we not on equal footing before we arrive... now?

We cannot guarantee equality of OUTCOME.
We can only try to provide equality of OPPORTUNITY.

I do doubt this. Rumors coming down the line say that deluxe hotels will most likely get more fp+ selections, or earlier selections, then moderate or value hotels. off site guests may get even less, or none.
So we are all equal, but some of us are more equal than others.
So Toy story might be gone by the time you get to pick.

Another problem is "fake" fp selections. No one needed Haunted Mansion FP before this new system- now, the regular line will be longer, because they will distribute fp+ to it.
Also, they have dining selections and parade selections as fp+ selections. Now those 4 or 5 e-tickets you may have used fp for are down to you picking 1 or 2 e tickets, and a dining and parade.

 

[bauer1168]

They haven't said this (yet, that I've seen)...

This is just a testing phase. Perhaps they're keeping the available set of FP+s down to just four per day to test the data flow and network infrastructure?

Has anyone give hard evidence that they won't expand the set of FP+s available to one per hour, or 8 per day? After all, if EVERY attraction is FP+, then they'll need to expand the pool of available FP+s for each guest beyond four.

Remember, this is Disney, and they'll do what they want/can to keep the guests happy. And it's still too early to make any kind of a SWAG on how this will work.

More insight from true insiders would be helpful.

Too. Late.

Great point, ill keep my fingers crossed!