Apparently I dislike FP+...alot

[wisblue]

OK, Suavado, I'll answer your question if you'll answer mine.

Keep in mind that my statements were not made as absolutes. I did not say that ALL first time or infrequent guests want the same thing. But, my statement that MANY of these guests want to do many things once is based largely on the messages posted on these boards by these guests asking posters to comment on their agendas. Many of them wonder if they can fit in all of the rides, shows, and character greetings they want to do and don't talk about doing anything multiple times. By contrast, a higher percentage of frequent visitors refer to some of the parks as half day parks because all they want to do in them is a small handful of attractions, and they would like to do those more than once. A lot of these posters are the ones who are upset that FP+ makes it more difficult to do that.

So, with that explanation are you ready to tell me if you really believe that FP+ only allows guests to do 3-4 attractions a day without waiting in long lines, or are you still going to duck that? First time and infrequent guests can figure out for themselves what they want to do, but they may want to know if they have to pick out their 3 or 4 favorites and forget everything else because they don't want to wait in long lines.

BTW, you might want to figure out how to quote a post. With this last one it came out looking like you were responding to your own post.

 

[tj4disney]

I haven't read either article because, quite frankly, none of it really matters to me. No amount of data will have any impact on the real time experience. Way too many variables to really predict what will happen at any given moment. I can say that every posted wait time we experienced was very exaggerated. Posted times of 15 minutes were literally walk on in most cases (Figment, Journey Under the Sea). In most cases, the actual wait time was dependent on how quickly you could walk from the queue entrance to the seat. This was the case for almost everything at EPCOT, and many things at MK. Star Tours routinely had a wait time of 10-15 minutes, but was 5 or less in reality.

Seems like this isn't the first report of wait times being exaggerated, but does anybody else find that a bit disturbing? I guess on the rides (and times) quoted above maybe it's not that big of a deal, but weren't there reports of the same thing with some of the bigger rides? Just feels like more uncertainty.

My co-worker had the opposite experience at TSMM in Sept...SB time listed at 35 minutes, and it took well over an hour as the FP+ line was being given extreme preferential treatment.

Guess the main point is that generally unreliable SB times don't seem like a good idea.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Seems like this isn't the first report of wait times being exaggerated, but does anybody else find that a bit disturbing? I guess on the rides (and times) quoted above maybe it's not that big of a deal, but weren't there reports of the same thing with some of the bigger rides? Just feels like more uncertainty.

My co-worker had the opposite experience at TSMM in Sept...SB time listed at 35 minutes, and it took well over an hour as the FP+ line was being given extreme preferential treatment.

Guess the main point is that generally unreliable SB times don't seem like a good idea.

This morning I happened to check out that new disneywaittimes.com site that a DISer created...it pulls both the "posted" and "actual" *(which aren't the same as posted) times from Disney somehow. The posted for 7DMT was 120min actual was listed at 13 min. About 15 mins later, it moved to a posted time of 75 mins but still an actual of 13 min. Like I said, supposedly this pulls from MDE coding. I have no way of knowing how accurate that was, and I'm not claiming it was accurate. I would have been interested in being in the park and seeing if it was accurate. If it was, and Disney is really beginning to post SB times that are *that* far off? That would not be a great trend to start, imo.

I'll definitely be checking that website's info out next week to get an idea of how accurate it is.

 

[Planogirl]

This morning I happened to check out that new disneywaittimes.com site that a DISer created...it pulls both the "posted" and "actual" *(which aren't the same as posted) times from Disney somehow. The posted for 7DMT was 120min actual was listed at 13 min. About 15 mins later, it moved to a posted time of 75 mins but still an actual of 13 min. Like I said, supposedly this pulls from MDE coding. I have no way of knowing how accurate that was, and I'm not claiming it was accurate. I would have been interested in being in the park and seeing if it was accurate. If it was, and Disney is really beginning to post SB times that are *that* far off? That would not be a great trend to start, imo.

I'll definitely be checking that website's info out next week to get an idea of how accurate it is.

What I wonder is WHY they post times so far off. There is no way that they would be that clueless.

 

[Luckybee]

This morning I happened to check out that new disneywaittimes.com site that a DISer created...it pulls both the "posted" and "actual" *(which aren't the same as posted) times from Disney somehow. The posted for 7DMT was 120min actual was listed at 13 min. About 15 mins later, it moved to a posted time of 75 mins but still an actual of 13 min. Like I said, supposedly this pulls from MDE coding. I have no way of knowing how accurate that was, and I'm not claiming it was accurate. I would have been interested in being in the park and seeing if it was accurate. If it was, and Disney is really beginning to post SB times that are *that* far off? That would not be a great trend to start, imo.

I'll definitely be checking that website's info out next week to get an idea of how accurate it is.

Whether that was happening when we saw very long wait times for standby I cant say for most rides because we wouldn't wait to find out. Why that would be happening is a whole other question. I can say the standby line for potc was ridiculously long and something we had never seen before

 

[Luckybee]

OK, Suavado, I'll answer your question if you'll answer mine.

Keep in mind that my statements were not made as absolutes. I did not say that ALL first time or infrequent guests want the same thing. But, my statement that MANY of these guests want to do many things once is based largely on the messages posted on these boards by these guests asking posters to comment on their agendas. Many of them wonder if they can fit in all of the rides, shows, and character greetings they want to do and don't talk about doing anything multiple times. By contrast, a higher percentage of frequent visitors refer to some of the parks as half day parks because all they want to do in them is a small handful of attractions, and they would like to do those more than once. A lot of these posters are the ones who are upset that FP+ makes it more difficult to do that.

So, with that explanation are you ready to tell me if you really believe that FP+ only allows guests to do 3-4 attractions a day without waiting in long lines, or are you still going to duck that? First time and infrequent guests can figure out for themselves what they want to do, but they may want to know if they have to pick out their 3 or 4 favorites and forget everything else because they don't want to wait in long lines.

BTW, you might want to figure out how to quote a post. With this last one it came out looking like you were responding to your own post.

Perhaps you missed my earlier post. For us fp+ did mean 3 or 4 then done because of standby lines. It doesn't mean it would be for someone else.
We are not going to do rope drop, nor are we willing to hang around a park for 8 or 9 hours to do 1 ride per hour.
In the past we could arrive around 10 , grab a fp for something, do 3 or 4 attractions without fp, go back for our fp ride, grab another fp have lunch, do a little bit of shopping,do another 3 or 4 rides, do our fp and leave by 2ish. We could get through 8-10 attractions in about 4 hours. In that same time frame, same hours, we could only do half as much. Sure we could have stayed longer, or done rope drop, or constantly been checking for short lines on the app etc. etc. We don't want to do that. That just doesn't work for us. Im glad it does for you, and for others who like the new system.
Im sure there are both repeat guests as well as newbies who enjoy the new way of touring. I can recognize that. I cannot however for the life of me understand why you and a couple of others cannot understand why people who once loved everything Disney are now disappointed that Disney no longer works for them.
So yes for some of us, fp+ absolutely does mean 3 or 4 then done. Why cant you accept that not everyone wants to tour the way you do?

 

[Nancyg56]

I was in Disney oct 27 to oct 31 rode what I wanted when i wanted without fastpass+ because I think fastpass+ is a waste of time. Had a great vacation.

I was there Oct 21 to 28. The crowds were very heavy during my stay, but I will say that most attractions had manageable standby lines. The attractions that have always had long standby lines still did, but we were able to experience many attractions, using FP as well as not. I missed my window a few time, and that was because we chose other attractions. I will say that it was nice to have the FP in my schedule before entering a park. No FP runners needed!

 

[wisblue]

Perhaps you missed my earlier post. For us fp+ did mean 3 or 4 then done because of standby lines. It doesn't mean it would be for someone else.
We are not going to do rope drop, nor are we willing to hang around a park for 8 or 9 hours to do 1 ride per hour.
In the past we could arrive around 10 , grab a fp for something, do 3 or 4 attractions without fp, go back for our fp ride, grab another fp have lunch, do a little bit of shopping,do another 3 or 4 rides, do our fp and leave by 2ish. We could get through 8-10 attractions in about 4 hours. In that same time frame, same hours, we could only do half as much. Sure we could have stayed longer, or done rope drop, or constantly been checking for short lines on the app etc. etc. We don't want to do that. That just doesn't work for us. Im glad it does for you, and for others who like the new system.
Im sure there are both repeat guests as well as newbies who enjoy the new way of touring. I can recognize that. I cannot however for the life of me understand why you and a couple of others cannot understand why people who once loved everything Disney are now disappointed that Disney no longer works for them.
So yes for some of us, fp+ absolutely does mean 3 or 4 then done. Why cant you accept that not everyone wants to tour the way you do?

No, I saw your earlier post, but I chose not to respond to it. But, since you are specifically asking, I will give you the courtesy of explaining why I didn't.

It goes without saying that individual experiences are going to vary based on things like overall crowd size, what time of day someone enters and leaves the park, what attractions they want to enjoy, etc., etc., etc. And it also should be understood that how one likes to tour the parks and whether someone likes to plan anything in advance is going to determine how they react to FP+ and whether or not they prefer it to the paper FP system.

And I understand that not everyone tours the way we do. People who frequent these boards know that our approach to touring WDW over the last 20 plus years has been to arrive early, take a break in the middle,of the day when the parks are most crowded and go to a second park later in the day. FP+ works great for that approach because we can use our FPs in the evening to do things we couldn't have done otherwise. I don't even own a smartphone, so I am not one who uses that to help our touring.

That is why I try to encourage infrequent and first time guests to try to pay attention to how their preferences compare to those of someone who posts on boards like this. And why I hate these broad statements like "FP+ only allows you to do 3 or 4 attractions without long waits". Some guests who are planning their first trip, or their first trips in several years, see things like that and wonder if it is actually true. Then they start wondering if they are going to enjoy their trips.

When I saw your post I wondered how you were only able to do 3-4 attractions without long waits, so thank you for answering that. I can understand how it could be more difficult to do as many attractions as before if you arrive at a park at 10 AM and leave at 2 PM, whether that be because longer lines are caused by FP+ or by a larger crowd that you are used to on the day you visit. But, I would hope you can understand how people who plan to arrive earlier and/or stay later, and use at least the 3 FPs they can get in advance or when they enter the park, would be able to do significantly more than 3-4 attractions in a day.

 

[wisblue]

This morning I happened to check out that new disneywaittimes.com site that a DISer created...it pulls both the "posted" and "actual" *(which aren't the same as posted) times from Disney somehow. The posted for 7DMT was 120min actual was listed at 13 min. About 15 mins later, it moved to a posted time of 75 mins but still an actual of 13 min. Like I said, supposedly this pulls from MDE coding. I have no way of knowing how accurate that was, and I'm not claiming it was accurate. I would have been interested in being in the park and seeing if it was accurate. If it was, and Disney is really beginning to post SB times that are *that* far off? That would not be a great trend to start, imo.

I'll definitely be checking that website's info out next week to get an idea of how accurate it is.

The obvious question with this (and you also raised it) is how the actual wait time is determined. This would seem to be hard to gather unless someone had a steady stream of testers going through lines.

Out of curiosity, exactly what time were you looking at this when you said "this morning"? Was it just after park opening or just before an EMH closing or somewhere in between?

If it's just after opening, it could be one of those tricks that Disney has pulled for as long as we can remember for the very most desirable attractions in the parks. They post a very long wait time right after the park opens, presumably to try to encourage guests to move on to other attractions and spread the crowds out.

 

[Suvadoo]

OK, Suavado, I'll answer your question if you'll answer mine.

Keep in mind that my statements were not made as absolutes. I did not say that ALL first time or infrequent guests want the same thing. But, my statement that MANY of these guests want to do many things once is based largely on the messages posted on these boards by these guests asking posters to comment on their agendas. Many of them wonder if they can fit in all of the rides, shows, and character greetings they want to do and don't talk about doing anything multiple times. By contrast, a higher percentage of frequent visitors refer to some of the parks as half day parks because all they want to do in them is a small handful of attractions, and they would like to do those more than once. A lot of these posters are the ones who are upset that FP+ makes it more difficult to do that.

So, with that explanation are you ready to tell me if you really believe that FP+ only allows guests to do 3-4 attractions a day without waiting in long lines, or are you still going to duck that? First time and infrequent guests can figure out for themselves what they want to do, but they may want to know if they have to pick out their 3 or 4 favorites and forget everything else because they don't want to wait in long lines.

BTW, you might want to figure out how to quote a post. With this last one it came out looking like you were responding to your own post.

Actually I didn’t say FP+ only allows guests to ride 3-4 attractions in a day. You took what I sad and interpreted to suite your argument. What I actually said,” If FP+ only allows me to ride 3-4 attractions without a long wait, then the cost of each attraction increases to $19.” Kind of changes things a bit doesn’t it? I was referring directly to myself in this statement, not to anyone else.

Also, I was commenting on LuckyBee’s post. She was saying that on her trip she did her FP attractions and then left the park.

Honestly, I can't figure out how my name came up when I pushed the quote button. It's never happened before. Perhaps it was a computer glitch? But maybe you would benefit from some remedial calsses yourself, my name is not Suavado.

 

[Suvadoo]

No, I saw your earlier post, but I chose not to respond to it. But, since you are specifically asking, I will give you the courtesy of explaining why I didn't.

It goes without saying that individual experiences are going to vary based on things like overall crowd size, what time of day someone enters and leaves the park, what attractions they want to enjoy, etc., etc., etc. And it also should be understood that how one likes to tour the parks and whether someone likes to plan anything in advance is going to determine how they react to FP+ and whether or not they prefer it to the paper FP system.

And I understand that not everyone tours the way we do. People who frequent these boards know that our approach to touring WDW over the last 20 plus years has been to arrive early, take a break in the middle,of the day when the parks are most crowded and go to a second park later in the day. FP+ works great for that approach because we can use our FPs in the evening to do things we couldn't have done otherwise. I don't even own a smartphone, so I am not one who uses that to help our touring.

That is why I try to encourage infrequent and first time guests to try to pay attention to how their preferences compare to those of someone who posts on boards like this. And why I hate these broad statements like "FP+ only allows you to do 3 or 4 attractions without long waits". Some guests who are planning their first trip, or their first trips in several years, see things like that and wonder if it is actually true. Then they start wondering if they are going to enjoy their trips.

When I saw your post I wondered how you were only able to do 3-4 attractions without long waits, so thank you for answering that. I can understand how it could be more difficult to do as many attractions as before if you arrive at a park at 10 AM and leave at 2 PM, whether that be because longer lines are caused by FP+ or by a larger crowd that you are used to on the day you visit. But, I would hope you can understand how people who plan to arrive earlier and/or stay later, and use at least the 3 FPs they can get in advance or when they enter the park, would be able to do significantly more than 3-4 attractions in a day.

Do you honestly believe that people who frequent the boards know or care how anyone else tours the parks? The only reason I would pay attention to this is if I was traveling with someone else and we had to blend touring styles.

 

[Suvadoo]

This morning I happened to check out that new disneywaittimes.com site that a DISer created...it pulls both the "posted" and "actual" *(which aren't the same as posted) times from Disney somehow. The posted for 7DMT was 120min actual was listed at 13 min. About 15 mins later, it moved to a posted time of 75 mins but still an actual of 13 min. Like I said, supposedly this pulls from MDE coding. I have no way of knowing how accurate that was, and I'm not claiming it was accurate. I would have been interested in being in the park and seeing if it was accurate. If it was, and Disney is really beginning to post SB times that are *that* far off? That would not be a great trend to start, imo.

I'll definitely be checking that website's info out next week to get an idea of how accurate it is.

Maybe disney is posting these wait times to encourage guests to use FP+ to book 7DMT in the future rather than standing in a 2 hour line.
Is this the only attraction with a posted wait time that is considerably longer the actual wait? IMO this is really crappy!

 

[Angel Ariel]

The obvious question with this (and you also raised it) is how the actual wait time is determined. This would seem to be hard to gather unless someone had a steady stream of testers going through lines.

The person who created the site claims it pulls from Disney in the same way that Josh pulls the posted wait time from Disney for his own wait time site. That this "actual" is within the coding as well, just not something MDE shows guests.

Out of curiosity, exactly what time were you looking at this when you said "this morning"? Was it just after park opening or just before an EMH closing or somewhere in between?

I'd say it was around 9:30-9:45am yesterday...not right at park opening.

If it's just after opening, it could be one of those tricks that Disney has pulled for as long as we can remember for the very most desirable attractions in the parks. They post a very long wait time right after the park opens, presumably to try to encourage guests to move on to other attractions and spread the crowds out.

I could see that for when it said 75 mins and actual claimed 13....but posting a 2 hr wait when it is only 10 mins would be excessive, imo, regardless of the reason why.

 

[flatlandcycle]

The obvious question with this (and you also raised it) is how the actual wait time is determined. This would seem to be hard to gather unless someone had a steady stream of testers going through lines...

This is exactly what the long range part of the Magic Band does best. Magic Band passes pointA at time1 then the same Magic Band crosses pointB at time2. Nothing a Junior High Schooler with a Raspberry Pi couldn't figure out.

 

[mom2rtk]

Maybe disney is posting these wait times to encourage guests to use FP+ to book 7DMT in the future rather than standing in a 2 hour line.
Is this the only attraction with a posted wait time that is considerably longer the actual wait? IMO this is really crappy!

I believe Disney has monkeyed with posted wait times for a long time. I'm quite sure they inflate them when it gets close to closing time to discourage people from getting in line. But I am betting they are monkeying with them more now than ever to nudge people toward using FP+.

I know when we made a one day stop in the MK a couple summers ago, we wanted to ride Space Mountain about 20 minutes before closing. The wait time posted was 2 hours, but I couldn't tell from outside the building whether that was total BS. We passed because my daughter also wanted to ride the People Mover (it had been down earlier). But I would have loved to go in and see what the actual Space wait was. I bet it was only 15-20 minutes.

 

[Suvadoo]

I believe Disney has monkeyed with posted wait times for a long time. I'm quite sure they inflate them when it gets close to closing time to discourage people from getting in line. But I am betting they are monkeying with them more now than ever to nudge people toward using FP+.

I know when we made a one day stop in the MK a couple summers ago, we wanted to ride Space Mountain about 20 minutes before closing. The wait time posted was 2 hours, but I couldn't tell from outside the building whether that was total BS. We passed because my daughter also wanted to ride the People Mover (it had been down earlier). But I would have loved to go in and see what the actual Space wait was. I bet it was only 15-20 minutes.

I think that really stinks, but I'll bet you're right about the closing time wait. It sounds like something they would do to make sure they can close on time.

 

[tj4disney]

Yeah, the practice of jacking up the SB times at end of day for big rides has been a staple for Disney. And actually that makes sense to me. Just feels like these more recent reports are occurring throughout the day, which is indeed really crappy. With enough reports of "I was at 7DMT at 10:00 in the morning and the posted time said 60 minutes, but it was less than 15", that's going to be a problem when it really is 60 minutes. It just creates more uncertainty, and points to the fact that they want to control your vacation...not you.

 

[wisblue]

This is exactly what the long range part of the Magic Band does best. Magic Band passes pointA at time1 then the same Magic Band crosses pointB at time2. Nothing a Junior High Schooler with a Raspberry Pi couldn't figure out.

Yes, but, even if they can figure out how long it takes a person to get from point A (entering the line) to point B (reaching a boarding point) something they have done for years with those red cards, that provides a backward looking piece of data. The posted wait time is obviously an estimation of how long it would take a person entering the line now.

If they have all the data about posted wait times and actual wait times they can figure out in hindsight how accurate the posted time was. But they wouldn't know exactly how long the current wait time is, especially when you throw in the uncertainty about how many FP users are going to be entering.

 

[mom2rtk]

Yeah, the practice of jacking up the SB times at end of day for big rides has been a staple for Disney. And actually that makes sense to me. Just feels like these more recent reports are occurring throughout the day, which is indeed really crappy. With enough reports of "I was at 7DMT at 10:00 in the morning and the posted time said 60 minutes, but it was less than 15", that's going to be a problem when it really is 60 minutes. It just creates more uncertainty, and points to the fact that they want to control your vacation...not you.

I call it "propaganda +".

 

[wisblue]

Do you honestly believe that people who frequent the boards know or care how anyone else tours the parks? The only reason I would pay attention to this is if I was traveling with someone else and we had to blend touring styles.

I don't think people care about me personally and how we tour. But, I think it is important to know how someone tours when they post opinions relating to strategies. If I just say I prefer FP+ to paper FP that is pretty useless information. But, if I explain how we tour and how FP+ fits into that style, I think it is more useful, especially for people who may want to do things the same way.

I do pay attention to how people say they tour. If they say that they used to get 8-10 FPs a day, it helps to know that they arrived at the park at opening at stayed until closing.

Similarly, if someone says "we were only able to do 3-4 attractions in the same amount of time in which we did 8-10 attractions before", I think it's helpful to know how much time and what time of day was involved. If that person's approach was a lot different than yours, you can expect that your total experience will be different too.