AP sales…

[RoseGold]

If I create and wear a “Family from Denver” shirt will they sell me an AP? lol

Just wear what you are with pride: "Favorable Attendance Mix"

 

[lowlight]

Just wear what you are with pride: "Favorable Attendance Mix"

Ok, that’s awesome. Can we please make this a Dis thing? Thousands of people wearing “Legacy fan” or “Unfavorable attendee” t shirts To Disney would be awesome. We could have bearded Chapek on the back with dollar bill sign eyeballs.

 

[Sandisw]

But what I don’t understand with all this ridiculous talk about the “family from Denver” is that with the reservation system you select which group you belong to… AP are counted separately. If this is such a “problem” then limit AP reservations… not the sale of AP’s.

I must be missing something.

First, I don’t think the story was meant to be taken as there was an actual family it happened to but the concept that before they has the reservations it was a possible because they didn’t do anything to track which guests were taking up the spots.

Second, when you sell an AP, you are in essence, selling a spot in the park. and you can’t sell more passes than what you are willing to accommodate each day.

So, right now, they don’t want any more AP holders than they have because they have enough guests paying for multi day tickets and they are reaching the capacity they want…and it’s obvious that reaching the pre pandemic attendance levels is not something they currently care about because they are making more money.

And, who knows…maybe the extra money is coming in because the guests visiting are the ones spending more and not the AP holders whom they say don’t spend enough.

So, to me, it sounds like they believe they have found a way to keep the parks a little less crowded which makes for a better experience but at the same time, continue to increase profits

 

[Miffy]

First, I don’t think the story was meant to be taken as there was an actual family it happened to but the concept that before they has the reservations it was a possible because they didn’t do anything to track which guests were taking up the spots.

Second, when you sell an AP, you are in essence, selling a spot in the park. and you can’t sell more passes than what you are willing to accommodate each day.

So, right now, they don’t want any more AP holders than they have because they have enough guests paying for multi day tickets and they are reaching the capacity they want…and it’s obvious that reaching the pre pandemic attendance levels is not something they currently care about because they are making more money.

And, who knows…maybe the extra money is coming in because the guests visiting are the ones spending more and not the AP holders whom they say don’t spend enough.

So, to me, it sounds like they believe they have found a way to keep the parks a little less crowded which makes for a better experience but at the same time, continue to increase profits!

@Sandisw: I agree with your analysis except for one thing: I've been to WDW three times now since the reservation system was put in place and I've experienced impossible-to-navigate crowds in MK, Epcot, and DHS on more than one occasion. I've left out DAK because there are fewer attractions there and it's more understandable that even on an ordinary-attendance day there'd be a line for KS, for example.

So are the WDW parks less crowded? It doesn't feel that way to me, but that's just my own opinion and experience. I realize that's not everyone's experience. For reference, I've been in December 2021, March 2022, and May 2022.

And--btw, this is not at all related to your post--I'd like to point out that the "level the playing field" line that I keep hearing as a reason for G+ and the park reservation system seems like a fantasy to me. As usual, the people who know how to work these systems well are the ones with the most WDW knowledge--like people on the DIS--and, just like FP+, people get to WDW and have no idea how to use G+ and, worse, many don't realize they need a park reservation.

And, yes, the people who don't realize they need a park reservation should've done their research. After all, it's a very expensive enterprise to go to WDW, however, I'm merely pointing out that the playing field is still as unlevel as it's ever been. Those in the know (and those with the bucks) have a huge advantage over that family from Denver. And because of the financial factor, one might even think that the playing field has been made even more unlevel, since it favors those with more money to spend.

Rant over!

I'm just glad that I kept renewing my AP even though I didn't go to WDW for 15 months.

And thank you for all your informative posts, @Sandisw. I always enjoy your take on things.

 

[New Mouse]

First, I don’t think the story was meant to be taken as there was an actual family it happened to but the concept that before they has the reservations it was a possible because they didn’t do anything to track which guests were taking up the spots.

Second, when you sell an AP, you are in essence, selling a spot in the park. and you can’t sell more passes than what you are willing to accommodate each day.

So, right now, they don’t want any more AP holders than they have because they have enough guests paying for multi day tickets and they are reaching the capacity they want…and it’s obvious that reaching the pre pandemic attendance levels is not something they currently care about because they are making more money.

And, who knows…maybe the extra money is coming in because the guests visiting are the ones spending more and not the AP holders whom they say don’t spend enough.

So, to me, it sounds like they believe they have found a way to keep the parks a little less crowded which makes for a better experience but at the same time, continue to increase profits

What makes you think they feel the parks are less crowded? If anything I'd say they have found a way to cut services and pay less for staffing while still hitting their profit level. If anything the parks "feel" more crowded than ever even though attendance is down.

 

[DeeBee3]

So are the WDW parks less crowded? It doesn't feel that way to me, but that's just my own opinion and experience. I realize that's not everyone's experience. For reference, I've been in December 2021, March 2022, and May 2022.

Agree with this 100%. The least crowded I saw was August 2021. Things were still building up and less people traveling. It was great. Can't say I've experienced that since.

 

[Sandisw]

@Sandisw: I agree with your analysis except for one thing: I've been to WDW three times now since the reservation system was put in place and I've experienced impossible-to-navigate crowds in MK, Epcot, and DHS on more than one occasion. I've left out DAK because there are fewer attractions there and it's more understandable that even on an ordinary-attendance day there'd be a line for KS, for example.

So are the WDW parks less crowded? It doesn't feel that way to me, but that's just my own opinion and experience. I realize that's not everyone's experience. For reference, I've been in December 2021, March 2022, and May 2022.

And--btw, this is not at all related to your post--I'd like to point out that the "level the playing field" line that I keep hearing as a reason for G+ and the park reservation system seems like a fantasy to me. As usual, the people who know how to work these systems well are the ones with the most WDW knowledge--like people on the DIS--and, just like FP+, people get to WDW and have no idea how to use G+ and, worse, many don't realize they need a park reservation.

And, yes, the people who don't realize they need a park reservation should've done their research. After all, it's a very expensive enterprise to go to WDW, however, I'm merely pointing out that the playing field is still as unlevel as it's ever been. Those in the know (and those with the bucks) have a huge advantage over that family from Denver. And because of the financial factor, one might even think that the playing field has been made even more unlevel, since it favors those with more money to spend.

Rant over!

I'm just glad that I kept renewing my AP even though I didn't go to WDW for 15 months.

And thank you for all your informative posts, @Sandisw. I always enjoy your take on things.

We do know, based on what was shared is that they are saying attendance is down, so somehow there are less people

I haven’t run into higher crowds in all the times I have visited…been 8 times this last year..but we also don’t do a ton of rides either so have been strategic in not waiting too long.

Walking around though, it has not seemed crazy when we were there. DHS has always been crazy and it was when we visited but can’t say it was worse than before.

It certainly is a unique approach in what they are doing and for those of us who have been through changes, we can see it. But, for those new families? They simply have no frame of reference and that is what they count on.

It does stink for those who are DVC who are really more than multi ticket guests but not the same as your FL resident, especially those local.

But, unfortunately, they have not yet come out with a product for us that works into their plan. And we all know here they could….make it a pass that works when you use your membership staying on site.

My guess is they have not because they simply dont want to deal with the backlash that would create amongst other groups.

 

[New Mouse]

We do know, based on what was shared is that they are saying attendance is down, so somehow there are less people

I haven’t run into higher crowds in all the times I have visited…been 8 times this last year..but we also don’t do a ton of rides either so have been strategic in not waiting too long.

Walking around though, it has not seemed crazy when we were there. DHS has always been crazy and it was when we visited but can’t say it was worse than before.

It certainly is a unique approach in what they are doing and for those of us who have been through changes, we can see it. But, for those new families? They simply have no frame of reference and that is what they count on.

It does stink for those who are DVC who are really more than multi ticket guests but not the same as your FL resident, especially those local.

But, unfortunately, they have not yet come out with a product for us that works into their plan. And we all know here they could….make it a pass that works when you use your membership staying on site.

My guess is they have not because they simply dont want to deal with the backlash that would create amongst other groups.

They already have a product for golden oaks and club 33 so its not going to anger anyone. The real answer is chapek knows dvc is locked in and by eliminating ap he increases profits every time they visit by about 75 per person per park on a dvc stay without an ap. It really is that simple. Thanks for your $30k investment in us. There's the door if you don't like it.

 

[Debbie Jean]

First, I don’t think the story was meant to be taken as there was an actual family it happened to but the concept that before they has the reservations it was a possible because they didn’t do anything to track which guests were taking up the spots.

Second, when you sell an AP, you are in essence, selling a spot in the park. and you can’t sell more passes than what you are willing to accommodate each day.

So, right now, they don’t want any more AP holders than they have because they have enough guests paying for multi day tickets and they are reaching the capacity they want…and it’s obvious that reaching the pre pandemic attendance levels is not something they currently care about because they are making more money.

And, who knows…maybe the extra money is coming in because the guests visiting are the ones spending more and not the AP holders whom they say don’t spend enough.

So, to me, it sounds like they believe they have found a way to keep the parks a little less crowded which makes for a better experience but at the same time, continue to increase profits

Nope never thought the family was real but a rather clumsy disingenuous method to justify policy… which would have been more honestly expressed as “these people are a more lucrative market than AP holders… or for that matter DVC”, both of whom tend to be more knowledgeable and savvy about their visits… which I think they believe, rightly or not, translates to less money spent.

When that policy ceases to drive profit, I think they figure us folks will still be there so they can always come back to that well to draw from.

 

[Pinnochio]

When that policy ceases to drive profit, I think they'll figure us folks will still be there so they can always come back to that well to draw from.

But will we still be there?.....Time will tell....

 

[Sandisw]

They already have a product for golden oaks and club 33 so its not going to anger anyone. The real answer is chapek knows dvc is locked in and by eliminating ap he increases profits every time they visit by about 75 per person per park on a dvc stay without an ap. It really is that simple. Thanks for your $30k investment in us. There's the door if you don't like it.

You don’t think if they brought back the Sorcerer Pass for DVC and not FL residents, there would be no backlash?

 

[aka Charles]

I would like to take a moment to try to define a couple terms...

1. Capacity - "The Total Amount or number of things or people that something can hold". (from the Cambridge Dictionary web site)
2. Attendance - "The number of people who go to an event, meeting, etc". (from the Cambridge Dictionary web site)

A park's capacity is the total amount of guests that the park can hold. That total is limited only by law or physical space, as in the fire marshal can close the entrance down, by law, when capacity is reached. As far as I know, that has been the only situation that has stopped guests from entering in the past. If the "family from Denver" could not get in, it was only because they showed up too late in the day, when the park was already full. And it didn't matter what kind of ticket or AP that someone had, show up too late, they cannot get in.

What Disney is doing now is controlling the attendance, not the capacity.
If a park can hold 500,000 but Disney only lets in 400,000... they have limited the attendance, but the capacity did not change.

(us, waiting to get in, lol)

 

[Sandisw]

But will we still be there?.....Time will tell....

Plenty will but all it will take is to offer a special deal to entice some on the fence.

 

[New Mouse]

You don’t think if they brought back the Sorcerer Pass for DVC and not FL residents, there would be no backlash?

No the products exist now for new in certain cases(uber rich) and renewal for any that have kept it up. Use it as a dvc sales tool. Want an ap? Buy DVC direct.

 

[Sandisw]

No the products exist now for new in certain cases(uber rich) and renewal for any that have kept it up. Use it as a dvc sales tool. Want an ap? Buy DVC direct.

I still think it would cause an uproar with FL residents to offer something to DVC that used to be for FL residents and leave them with the restricted pixie pass.

Can’t compare to the gold oaks and club 33 crowd getting them.

 

[CarolMN]

You don’t think if they brought back the Sorcerer Pass for DVC and not FL residents, there would be no backlash?

Almost all DVC Members who want an AP would be satisfied with an AP valid only on the days they have an on-site reservation. That product doesn't need to be exclusive to DVC. My guess is that there would be quite a few non-Florida, non-DVC Members who would be happy with that product, too.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

You don’t think if they brought back the Sorcerer Pass for DVC and not FL residents, there would be no backlash?

They distinctively categorize us differently anyway.

 

[Sandisw]

They distinctively categorize us differently anyway.

I know they do and we are not any more important to them than anyone else. But, my point was more that even though they could offer DVC something if they wanted to, one of the reasons they probably would not is so that they don't need to worry or deal with potential backlash they would get.

 

[lowlight]

Almost all DVC Members who want an AP would be satisfied with an AP valid only on the days they have an on-site reservation. That product doesn't need to be exclusive to DVC. My guess is that there would be quite a few non-Florida, non-DVC Members who would be happy with that product, too.

Likely, but it’s a principle issue. I don’t absolve Disney of being a terrible company because they gave me something that works for me while screwing over everyone else.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

IMHO there should be ONE annual pass:
A full park hopper
It includes water parks, photo pass
It includes theme park parking and resort parking
Same discounts we have now
Tables in Wonderland
No blockout dates,
Park hopping is allowed after 11 a.m.
Park entry at any park after 11 a.m. without clicking into first park
No tiers — just one level,
No residency categories, or DVC membership blue card restrictions
No monthly payment plan
First come first serve — no separate buckets
Up to 14 reservation holds
Guaranteed renewable annually at new rates for 10 years
$3,000 per year for everyone — not free up to age 3