AP sales…

[RivShore]

Disney’s own data shows actual park attendance is down 17%.

When did they say that? I know they have said its down for all time highs just before the pandemic but don't remember seeing a number put to it.

 

[tim494]

"We didn’t have a reservation system and we didn’t control the number of annual passes ... the annual pass as a value was so great that people were literally coming all the time and the accessibility of the park was unlimited to them"

sounds like the real target are the FL resident APs. The APs are too cheap and make it easy for spontaneous drop-ins. I don’t see that has a “traveling AP” problem because those traveling AP holders can’t just drop-in so the park is not “unlimited” to them.

His statement also supports the idea locals on average don’t spend as much as infrequent visitors. If they did, he wouldn’t care about them coming all the time.

If he allows DeSantis to go through with changing the relationship with the State, does he gets to rewrite resident AP rules?

 

[RivShore]

Also, if they had any desire to provide a balanced AP product for DVC members and other guests that visit more than once a year, it would be simple for them to create an AP that is tied to resort stays, like so many have suggested. It would provide excellent flexibility for the guests, and guaranteed multiple level revenue stream for Disney.

It is a great idea, hopefully someday...

 

[Sandisw]

Yes, what you say is correct.

In his statement he says "But at the same time, we’ve got to make sure that there’s room in the park for the family from Denver that comes once every five years. We didn’t have a reservation system and we didn’t control the number of annual passes we distributed and frankly, the annual pass as a value was so great that people were literally coming all the time and the accessibility of the park was unlimited to them and that family from Denver would get to the park and not be let in."

He is saying that the reason that the family cannot get into the park is because there is not enough room in the park... in other words the park is at FULL capacity based solely on attendance.
But that is not the case at all, by their own data.

When you say "they like that the park reservations system is allowing them to control attendance differently than before they had it", you are correct, it is about control.
Now, we all love it when the lines are shorter.
For the guest, it means they get on the ride quicker.
For Disney, it means the guests get off the rides quicker, allowing more time for in park shopping and eating.

When you say "the goal is to keep crowds at a lower level than before", you are correct.
So when that family cannot get in, it is because Disney has lowered the level of access, not that demand maxed out the park capacity.

You are correct when you say "that revenue is still up as prices are now higher than before, so they have what they see as system that allows them to do things they couldn’t before..."
What they have done is lower the supply, which artificially increases the demand, thus allowing them to increase the prices.
So even if the family can get in, they have to pay a higher price. They may have to change from once every 5 years to once every 7 or 8 years.

When you say "The statement at the end says it all. When demand goes down, then they will know they need to change things." you are correct.
But in the context of his statement, the "demand" is purposely implied to be about attendance.
The actual "demand" is about the guests who are willing to pay more for less.
When the guests stop paying, "then they will know they need to change things."

So, just a long way of saying that everything he said was correct, except the narrative that the problem is that there is no room in the park.
Under the current system, if anyone cannot get into the park, that is solely because Disney is controlling the access and lowering the supply.

I fully understand it from a business perspective, but not from a customer service perspective.

.

No worries! But remember they have redefined capacity based on new measures they want in place.

What they allowed before isn’t what they appear to want now that the reservation system is in place.

So, from their standpoint, the only way to ensure that family can get in is to limit the number of AP tickets out there at one time.

As you said, they are controlling the capacity because they feel that having a lower number of spots in the park is in the best interest of customer satisfaction.

 

[RivShore]

He is saying that the reason that the family cannot get into the park is because there is not enough room in the park... in other words the park is at FULL capacity based solely on attendance.
But that is not the case at all, by their own data.

I would think he was referring to pre-reservation times when parks around the holidays would shut down. I thought that only happened a few times a year though.

 

[ironz]

sounds like the real target are the FL resident APs. The APs are too cheap and make it easy for spontaneous drop-ins. I don’t see that has a “traveling AP” problem because those traveling AP holders can’t just drop-in so the park is not “unlimited” to them.

His statement also supports the idea locals on average don’t spend as much as infrequent visitors. If they did, he wouldn’t care about them coming all the time.

If he allows DeSantis to go through with changing the relationship with the State, does he gets to rewrite resident AP rules?

Then they need to make a distinction between DVC/hotel using AP holders and the locals who drive in all the time, so I think we're in agreement on that.
I feel like the reservation system, the limited hopping, and the relatively (in our experience) limited availability of Genie+ have really reduced what we can do in the parks, which means we don't want to go as often, which means we're not spending as much money there.

I did some back of a napkin math on ILL revenue when it first came out, based on my own (albeit) limited observations, and there is $$$$$ rolling into Disney's coffers.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

When did they say that? I know they have said its down for all time highs just before the pandemic but don't remember seeing a number put to it.

"Recent price hikes at Disney's theme parks have seen the company's profits surge despite a slump in visitors - leading many to accuse the parks of ripping off loyal customers in order to bolster their bottom line.

Since reopening in April of last year, the company has made a host of changes to its preeminent parks in Florida and California, nixing free perks and ramping up prices, causing the cost of a visit to a Disney resort to rise dramatically.

Visitor numbers at the park have plunged by 17 per cent - but the profit Disney makes on each guest has increased by 17 per cent in a year, helping turbocharge the firm's profits."
[Emphasis added.] (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-park-profits-jump-five-fold-2-2-billion.html, Daily Mail, pub. 28 August 2022, accessed 29 August 2022.)

 

[lowlight]

It's the lying and the greed together that bother me so much. I can take a liar who isn't trying to fleece me, or a greedy person who is fleecing me and tells me exactly why, but I can't take the combination of someone who fleeces me and paints a story about why it's necessary that is offensively and patently untrue. AP's have never, ever been a problem until Disney decided they weren't valuable enough. The family from Denver story is basically a euphemistic middle finger to the "legacy" fans. Disney was making a ton of money, regular visitors were having a great time, and then Disney decided "we want more money" and made up a laughably insulting reason to justify it. This isn't a story of a down and out company that needed to up revenue to keep the lights on, this is pure greed and absolute disdain for their most loyal customers. Disney is up there right now with companies that absolutely deserve to be in the trashbin of history like Nestle and Comcast.

 

[RivShore]

"Recent price hikes at Disney's theme parks have seen the company's profits surge despite a slump in visitors - leading many to accuse the parks of ripping off loyal customers in order to bolster their bottom line.

Since reopening in April of last year, the company has made a host of changes to its preeminent parks in Florida and California, nixing free perks and ramping up prices, causing the cost of a visit to a Disney resort to rise dramatically.

Visitor numbers at the park have plunged by 17 per cent - but the profit Disney makes on each guest has increased by 17 per cent in a year, helping turbocharge the firm's profits."
[Emphasis added.] (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-park-profits-jump-five-fold-2-2-billion.html, Daily Mail, pub. 28 August 2022, accessed 29 August 2022.)

Thanks.

I can't tell from that article what year they are comparing to though. Can you? A 17% drop from when is my question.

 

[RivShore]

Then they need to make a distinction between DVC/hotel using AP holders and the locals who drive in all the time, so I think we're in agreement on that.
I feel like the reservation system, the limited hopping, and the relatively (in our experience) limited availability of Genie+ have really reduced what we can do in the parks, which means we don't want to go as often, which means we're not spending as much money there.

I did some back of a napkin math on ILL revenue when it first came out, based on my own (albeit) limited observations, and there is $$$$$ rolling into Disney's coffers.

You can have a good time without the extras especially for us DVC'ers where it's not the end of the world if you don't get on a ride this trip. We survived fine last week of Aug. without paying a penny extra for G+ or ILL. The crowds were a bit less than the summer and it made for a much much better overall trip.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Thanks.

I can't tell from that article what year they are comparing to though. Can you? A 17% drop from when is my question.

Just prior the “normal” attendance figures were 2019.

 

[RoseGold]

Has nothing to do with IT, though. Showing ID along with proof of eligibility is part of the rules.

Take DVC out of it…it’s the requirement of an AP as well.

Right. Sure, you show your ID.

But my point is your MB just says DVC. There are like six categories of DVC points, but only two current categories of member (blue or white). And yet the MB, and their system in general, can't tell if you are white or blue. It's how non-blue people got sorcerer passes last year.

 

[Pinnochio]

Then they need to make a distinction between DVC/hotel AP holders and the locals who drive in all the time

exactly.....link the purchase of an AP to an actual resort stay.....level the playing field.....

 

[Miffy]

exactly.....link the purchase of an AP to an actual resort stay.....level the playing field.....

As an out-of-state non-DVC AP holder, I like this idea, since I always stay onsite at WDW, however, there are certainly a lot of local FL residents for whom being near WDW was a major motivation in their moving to FL.

Maybe these people don't spend as much as the mythical family from Denver, however, they do spend money in the parks. I'm sure lots of local residents eat at WDW restaurants, which I would certainly do if I lived nearby.

Also, companies do live and die from their reputations. To think otherwise is shortsighted.

 

[Sandisw]

But my point is your MB just says DVC. There are like six categories of DVC points, but only two current categories of member (blue or white). And yet the MB, and their system in general, can't tell if you are white or blue. It's how non-blue people got sorcerer passes last year.

Which is why we now have a digital card that shows status.

Those that got the pass had to show the card..and the CMs took the white card as proof when they should not have.

So, one doesn’t need to have the MB show anything because you have a way to prove you are eligible.

Just don’t see what the issue is or why it’s a big deal to simply show your digital card and ID when asked.

 

[Debbie Jean]

Just renewed my Sorcerer's Pass... first day eligible to renew because who the heck knows what Disney has planned for AP's including renewals

Took two CM's a total of 8 minutes...midday call, I was very pleased with the service!

 

[RoseGold]

What on earth is Dear Leader talking about??? He's saying the family from Denver couldn't get in because Disney didn't have reservations to protect them and all of those APs were stinking up the joint, so pre-Covid. That would have to be something like Christmas, right? I think that's the only time MK actually didn't let ticketed guests in pre-Covid.

And now, after Covid, hope that Denver family booked their reservations ahead of time because stuff fills up all the time, clearly those gross APs causing the issue.

 

[Debbie Jean]

But what I don’t understand with all this ridiculous talk about the “family from Denver” is that with the reservation system you select which group you belong to… AP are counted separately. If this is such a “problem” then limit AP reservations… not the sale of AP’s.

I must be missing something.

 

[lowlight]

But what I don’t understand with all this ridiculous talk about the “family from Denver” is that with the reservation system you select which group you belong to… AP are counted separately. If this is such a “problem” then limit AP reservations… not the sale of AP’s.

I must be missing something.

I believe that’s what got them sued. This is basically Disney creating a problem (reservations and limited spots) and selling the fix (higher ticket cost and limited AP to drive down attendance but increase profits).

 

[ars13]

If I create and wear a “Family from Denver” shirt will they sell me an AP? lol