AP sales…

[4StringerBass]

It's still there if you're signed in as a FL resident or qualified DVC. member. It disappears if I log out.

Yep that is what happened. Wifey logged me out. Thank you!

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Same! DH just picked us up - he dropped us at 9 for opening (we’re at SSR now) and we rode Gringott’s, HP Express and Hagrid’s (got some merchandise with a discount). The parks are so clean and the TMs soooo much more upbeat. Very happy

I’m not surprised the TM’s are more upbeat, by all accounts Universal pays better, has better benefits, and overall treats their employees better.

 

[Miffy]

Re APs in general: Despite the fears that they're going away at WDW, I don't think they are. They're still allowing renewals, they still have AP benefits that they advertise to AP holders, there's an increase in the AP discounts for part of the fall, and they just released AP discount rates for resorts--albeit not what they used to be but still better than nothing--for the fall.

And they just sent me another magnet.

Even though we're not using the fall AP discount since it didn't work for our dates at POFQ in December, we could've switched to GDT water view for about the same price as POFQ rack. We just decided to stay put--and I'm checking the discounts daily to make see if POFQ turns up for our dates. It may, and then we'll apply the discount.

I'm feeling optimistic.

 

[Llama mama]

So we are out of state Incredible pass annual pass holders. Going during a very busy holiday week but cannot renew till Sept 20 th .
1.If AP were released for purchase, could I purchase 4 and add to my existing MDE account to book reservations.
I know I would lose the renewal discount but securing park reservations is more important to me .
2. Also , is the only way to upgrade from park hoppers to an AP to call?
3. Or can I upgrade just online if I want to apply the ticket cost or can I unassign those tickets and they just hang on my MDE till reassigned?

 

[Sandisw]

So we are out of state Incredible pass annual pass holders. Going during a very busy holiday week but cannot renew till Sept 20 th .
1.If AP were released for purchase, could I purchase 4 and add to my existing MDE account to book reservations.
I know I would lose the renewal discount but securing park reservations is more important to me .
2. Also , is the only way to upgrade from park hoppers to an AP to call?
3. Or can I upgrade just online if I want to apply the ticket cost or can I unassign those tickets and they just hang on my MDE till reassigned?

Yes, if sales start again, you can buy a new ticket to get your park reservations.

I have only be able to upgrade tickets to my renewal AP in person. I don’t know if it can be done by phone but definitely not by MS.

If you decide not to use tickets you buy to go toward a renewal cost, then yes, reassign them and the value will stay until you put them toward something else.

Since they would be date based, they will disappear after those dates pass, but will be there behind the scenes for ticketing to see

 

[WilsonFlyer]

In the category, 'You just can't make this stuff up" today...

WDW announced a 30% discount at Disney owned merchandise locations throughout WDW resort (resort-wide) from Sept 14-Oct 14.

New AP sales? Mute.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

The AP pause I’m sure did start because of the lawsuit. However, now? They’re hitting their own artificial attendance caps nearly every day even in low times. They make a lot more money selling day tickets than AP’s. I don’t think we should expect to see AP’s any time soon

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

The AP pause I’m sure did start because of the lawsuit. However, now? They’re hitting their own artificial attendance caps nearly every day even in low times. They make a lot more money selling day tickets than AP’s. I don’t think we should expect to see AP’s any time soon

Warning: This post may contain speculation, conjecture or opinion.

I think you are right about the lawsuit starting the AP pause. The way they were using buckets to manipulate availability among types of guests was a concern to their lawyers. That is not entirely concluded. But, I also agree with your view that they have been hitting their own reduced attendance caps. It is all green right now for both buckets, but they still are not restarting new sales of annual passes. So, that says something. New sales of annual passes are a longer term commitment. Offering magnets, discounts on merch, ticket deals to foreign markets and discounts on rooms are all short term manipulation. So are the "bonus days" for APs. (Although the last two were on Saturday and Sunday and Pixie was blocked from using those bonus days.)

I saw this information and it is new. I haven't seen it discussed on the DisBoards or in any other forum.

"Recent price hikes at Disney's theme parks have seen the company's profits surge despite a slump in visitors - leading many to accuse the parks of ripping off loyal customers in order to bolster their bottom line.​

Since reopening in April of last year, the company has made a host of changes to its preeminent parks in Florida and California, nixing free perks and ramping up prices, causing the cost of a visit to a Disney resort to rise dramatically.​

Visitor numbers at the park have plunged by 17 per cent - but the profit Disney makes on each guest has increased by 17 per cent in a year, helping turbocharge the firm's profits."​

[Emphasis added.] (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-park-profits-jump-five-fold-2-2-billion.html, Daily Mail, pub. 28 August 2022, accessed 29 August 2022.)​

​

Remember, Ms. McCarthy, CFO, said in the Q3 22 earnings call that attendance numbers were a little below 2019. We didn't know how much. Now it appears 17% lower -- possibly.

IIRC in 2019 WDW had 58,000,000 guests. So, 17% of 58,000,000 is 9,860,000 fewer visits. Assume for a moment for purposes of calculation that they are all passholders. If you average 20 visits per AP holder per year, that's 493,000 fewer outstanding APs to sell. I did a previous calculation based on previously published information of about 33% to 35% of the WDW crowd were annual passholders. It looks like it is possible that Disney capped AP sales to about half of what they usually sold as of about 2019. There are your missing AP slots!

Now combine that with the additional fact that when they opened up new sales again on September 8, 2021, that 40% of the new sales were new AP holders. If they wanted a goal of reducing outstanding APs in the crowd by reducing new AP sales, they probably have a long way to go to have enough AP inventory from people not renewing to open new AP sales again.

Earlier, in about late November 2021 when Disney first paused sales of new annual passes, a Disney representative said the pause would be until sometime in 2022. Of course, that was right after the lawsuit was filed and Disney probably thought they would get it dismissed based on their language in the terms and conditions. As we know, the Judge ruled on that in May 2022 and that did not happen. The bloggers thought the pause was due to the holiday crowds or difficulty in hiring employees. That didn't account for the long pause either. But, a combination of the lawsuit removing the two buckets as a manipulation, capping the attendance capacity at 17% lower and capping annual pass sales does account for the lack of new sales of APs. Based on all of this, I agree with you. I don't expect new annual pass sales to re-open any time soon. The tea leaves indicate otherwise.

 

[MalorieA]

I actually got a flash of hope last night when I randomly checked my cart and saw 3 sorcerer passes that I had added back when there was that glitch a couple of months ago. They had disappeared after that glitch. I tried to purchase like 3 times last night and it kept giving an error message. At about 4 this morning I tried again (haha), and it actually went through (it made me do something different like enter each of our birthdays). I immediately got an email with the subject “Walt Disney World Confirmation!” but the actual email said it was still processing. Then 2 hours later another email saying the order couldn’t be processed. So I’m guessing IT was at it again. It was a wild ride though

 

[Mexacajun]

I actually got a flash of hope last night when I randomly checked my cart and saw 3 sorcerer passes that I had added back when there was that glitch a couple of months ago. They had disappeared after that glitch. I tried to purchase like 3 times last night and it kept giving an error message. At about 4 this morning I tried again (haha), and it actually went through (it made me do something different like enter each of our birthdays). I immediately got an email with the subject “Walt Disney World Confirmation!” but the actual email said it was still processing. Then 2 hours later another email saying the order couldn’t be processed. So I’m guessing IT was at it again. It was a wild ride though

Whoa! You should definitely call and plead your case!

 

[MalorieA]

Whoa! You should definitely call and plead your case!

Well I definitely would call if I had gotten an actual confirmation number or if the credit card had been charged. I’d probably just get the canned response from them about new APs not being offered at this time.
I’m just going to stay hopeful. I read a post on another forum from a supposed “insider” that said they’re still planning on restarting new sales “as far as he knows” at the end of the year. So

 

[MalorieA]

Whoa! You should definitely call and plead your case!

Ok so I ended up emailing Josh d’amaro, Jeff vahle, and bob with my situation, screenshots of the emails, and how I purchased another contract thinking that APs would be returning etc. Just throwing darts…. I’ll let y’all know if I get a response.
Oh and I spoke with chat and they did give me the canned response. “Sorry for the false hope. No communication on when APs would be returning”

 

[CarolynFH]

I think some of us were wondering what would happen when the white-card members who bought and activated APs last year went to renew them. This afternoon, DH reported a FB post from someone in that situation - who was not allowed to renew.

 

[Sandisw]

I think some of us were wondering what would happen when the white-card members who bought and activated APs last year went to renew them. This afternoon, DH reported a FB post from someone in that situation - who was not allowed to renew.

Thanks for sharing. I had a feeling.

 

[SL6827]

I think some of us were wondering what would happen when the white-card members who bought and activated APs last year went to renew them. This afternoon, DH reported a FB post from someone in that situation - who was not allowed to renew.

Why weren't they? I must be missing something.

 

[PolyRob]

Why weren't they? I must be missing something.

White card DVC members purchased resale contracts after 4/4/16 that are no longer eligible for membership extras or fall below the new direct minimum purchase threshold of 150 and aren't grandfathered.

Only blue card DVC members with direct purchases of varying amounts (it's changed a few times) or grandfathered resale contracts (purchased prior to 4/4/16) are eligible for membership extras including the discounted DVC Sorcerer's Pass.

 

[SL6827]

White card DVC members purchased resale contracts after 4/4/16 that are no longer eligible for membership extras. Only blue card DVC members with direct purchases of varying amounts (it's changed a few times) or grandfathered DVC resale contracts (purchased prior to 4/4/16) are eligible for membership extras including the discounted DVC Sorcerer's Pass.

Oh, I think I remember now.

 

[corpcomp]

Warning: This post may contain speculation, conjecture or opinion.

I think you are right about the lawsuit starting the AP pause. The way they were using buckets to manipulate availability among types of guests was a concern to their lawyers. That is not entirely concluded. But, I also agree with your view that they have been hitting their own reduced attendance caps. It is all green right now for both buckets, but they still are not restarting new sales of annual passes. So, that says something. New sales of annual passes are a longer term commitment. Offering magnets, discounts on merch, ticket deals to foreign markets and discounts on rooms are all short term manipulation. So are the "bonus days" for APs. (Although the last two were on Saturday and Sunday and Pixie was blocked from using those bonus days.)

I saw this information and it is new. I haven't seen it discussed on the DisBoards or in any other forum.

"Recent price hikes at Disney's theme parks have seen the company's profits surge despite a slump in visitors - leading many to accuse the parks of ripping off loyal customers in order to bolster their bottom line.​

Since reopening in April of last year, the company has made a host of changes to its preeminent parks in Florida and California, nixing free perks and ramping up prices, causing the cost of a visit to a Disney resort to rise dramatically.​

Visitor numbers at the park have plunged by 17 per cent - but the profit Disney makes on each guest has increased by 17 per cent in a year, helping turbocharge the firm's profits."​

[Emphasis added.] (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-park-profits-jump-five-fold-2-2-billion.html, Daily Mail, pub. 28 August 2022, accessed 29 August 2022.)​

​

Remember, Ms. McCarthy, CFO, said in the Q3 22 earnings call that attendance numbers were a little below 2019. We didn't know how much. Now it appears 17% lower -- possibly.

IIRC in 2019 WDW had 58,000,000 guests. So, 17% of 58,000,000 is 9,860,000 fewer visits. Assume for a moment for purposes of calculation that they are all passholders. If you average 20 visits per AP holder per year, that's 493,000 fewer outstanding APs to sell. I did a previous calculation based on previously published information of about 33% to 35% of the WDW crowd were annual passholders. It looks like it is possible that Disney capped AP sales to about half of what they usually sold as of about 2019. There are your missing AP slots!

Now combine that with the additional fact that when they opened up new sales again on September 8, 2021, that 40% of the new sales were new AP holders. If they wanted a goal of reducing outstanding APs in the crowd by reducing new AP sales, they probably have a long way to go to have enough AP inventory from people not renewing to open new AP sales again.

Earlier, in about late November 2021 when Disney first paused sales of new annual passes, a Disney representative said the pause would be until sometime in 2022. Of course, that was right after the lawsuit was filed and Disney probably thought they would get it dismissed based on their language in the terms and conditions. As we know, the Judge ruled on that in May 2022 and that did not happen. The bloggers thought the pause was due to the holiday crowds or difficulty in hiring employees. That didn't account for the long pause either. But, a combination of the lawsuit removing the two buckets as a manipulation, capping the attendance capacity at 17% lower and capping annual pass sales does account for the lack of new sales of APs. Based on all of this, I agree with you. I don't expect new annual pass sales to re-open any time soon. The tea leaves indicate otherwise.

It still is packed to the gills every time I go

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

It still is packed to the gills every time I go

I do not know if you have ever been in a Disney park, prior to 2020, when they refused further entry. (“Fire Marshall capacity.”) Generally, the 2019 crowds were less than that even on very busy days. I understand MK was like that on Christmas and NYE. But the current cap is 83% of a 2019 generally very busy day. Just taking 17% crowd reduction has changed the emotional stress component enough so even though there are fewer people, they are more relaxed and spending 17% more. “Packed to the gills” could have a lot of variance.

 

[corpcomp]

I do not know if you have ever been in a Disney park, prior to 2020, when they refused further entry. (“Fire Marshall capacity.”) Generally, the 2019 crowds were less than that even on very busy days. I understand MK was like that on Christmas and NYE. But the current cap is 83% of a 2019 generally very busy day. Just taking 17% crowd reduction has changed the emotional stress component enough so even though there are fewer people, they are more relaxed and spending 17% more. “Packed to the gills” could have a lot of variance.

My definition of packed to the gills during F&W last time I was there. If the pic violates some rule, please remove.