AP sales…

[BeachClub2014]

If 32% of members sell, the resale market will crash, hard.

I can totally understand the frustration and respect anyone's decision to sell their DVC contracts. Having said that, I'm not sure that it really matters to DVC at all as for every sold contract, there is a buyer. Someone will own and use those points.

 

[kilik64]

32% is an insanely high amount of people. If 32% of members sell, the resale market will crash, hard.
But I don't think it'll happen, it's only a matter of when the AP will be back, not IF.

Thats a poll on here, Id bet some money that the percent of people who would sell because of no ap is way lower in the total dvc population.

We fall into the never buying an AP so this doesnt really effect us camp. We plan to go once a year give or take for the foreseeable future and at most go to the parks 5 days, if not less like 3-4. Vast majority of dvc is like that, not the small echo chamber we have here on it. Just a small sliver of DVC.

 

[zavandor]

Thats a poll on here, Id bet some money that the percent of people who would sell because of no ap is way lower in the total dvc population.

We fall into the never buying an AP so this doesnt really effect us camp. We plan to go once a year give or take for the foreseeable future and at most go to the parks 5 days, if not less like 3-4. Vast majority of dvc is like that, not the small echo chamber we have here on it. Just a small sliver of DVC.

We do not really know if the DIS members match the wider DVC membership community, however I'd say both include long term Disney fans who go to Disney often.
It is estimated that for a sold out resort, around 1% of contracts are sold every year (less when it's newer, then the percentage increases a bit). Even if not 32%, even just 5% would be a huge increase of contracts on the market, likely to severely affect price.
My point is: it's true the majority of DVC members may not be affected by the AP loss (me included), but still the poll showing 32% even thinking about selling because of it is huge.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[The Jackal]

Right now, they are stuck with current annual passholders and the spots they take. Ending current passholders (sunsetting) would be a hugely expensive proposition. If they do not allow new sales and cancel renewals it will still take more than a year -- because of the voucher and start at first visit situation. So, how they end the current situation and start something new is also a consideration.
Right now, "current passholder spots" are already taking more of the park spots than they want. So, they have to deal with that first.

On most sold out dates there is available for pass holders.

 

[RoseGold]

Just months ago, these boards were doing math with a decade worth of "discounts" on APs to justify buying direct and "break even." It was the most important perk. Now, everyone is acting like nobody wanted an AP anyway, and you don't care if it's completely gone.

If there's no AP, I'm out. I'm completely out on Disney. And I'm not the only one thinking like this. I'm planning multiple trips for the summer, because it might be our last at Disney. If they want full price ticket payers only, fine. Maybe I'll see you again in a few years at the Halloween party and I'll rent some points for a night at Poly tower.

Cool thing about buying resale is this is easy to reverse.

 

[Sandisw]

Just months ago, these boards were doing math with a decade worth of "discounts" on APs to justify buying direct and "break even." It was the most important perk. Now, everyone is acting like nobody wanted an AP anyway, and you don't care if it's completely gone.

If there's no AP, I'm out. I'm completely out on Disney. And I'm not the only one thinking like this. I'm planning multiple trips for the summer, because it might be our last at Disney. If they want full price ticket payers only, fine. Maybe I'll see you again in a few years at the Halloween party and I'll rent some points for a night at Poly tower.

I think these are two different things. People here are relating not having an AP to depressing sales and/or selling.

Its not the same thing as deciding if one exists if it can offset the additional price of direct for those who see it as something they would use.

So, I think you can have both be true. It’s just right now, since DPEP has suspended sales, it’s less of topic, not that it still cant Br part of the equation.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[SL6827]

That is currently an artificial situation. They are showing green lights for passholders in accordance with normal block-out dates as per the pass type purchased -- unless - and only unless - they have reached that park's capacity (not a Disney chosen bucket capacity). In fact, the current calendars show ticketed guests and resort guests have less availability than passholders (which is exactly opposite the guest type prioritization last October through November 23, 2021.) They are doing this because of the lawsuit; in order not to increase the number of people as plaintiffs in the class action lawsuit. Depending on Judicial rulings on various motions and the outcome of the lawsuit, this order of priority could change at any time. The availability for passholders is litigation driven. There is a rule in law that if a defendant has done something that allegedly caused an injury,. any correction they make to remedy the situation cannot be used as evidence. So, Disney is free to make the correction without fear that their correction will be used against them in the lawsuit.

Exactly. Disney is trying to back track now.

 

[RoseGold]

They are showing green lights for passholders in accordance with normal block-out dates as per the pass type purchased -- unless - and only unless - they have reached that park's capacity (not a Disney chosen bucket capacity). In fact, the current calendars show ticketed guests and resort guests have less availability than passholders (which is exactly opposite the guest type prioritization last October through November 23, 2021.) They are doing this because of the lawsuit; in order not to increase the number of people as plaintiffs in the class action lawsuit.

This is a very interesting wrinkle. Definitely not how the mouse wanted to use this system.

 

[Sandisw]

That is currently an artificial situation. They are showing green lights for passholders in accordance with normal block-out dates as per the pass type purchased -- unless - and only unless - they have reached that park's capacity (not a Disney chosen bucket capacity). In fact, the current calendars show ticketed guests and resort guests have less availability than passholders (which is exactly opposite the guest type prioritization last October through November 23, 2021.) They are doing this because of the lawsuit; in order not to increase the number of people as plaintiffs in the class action lawsuit. Depending on Judicial rulings on various motions and the outcome of the lawsuit, this order of priority could change at any time. The availability for passholders is litigation driven. There is a rule in law that if a defendant has done something that allegedly caused an injury,. any correction they make to remedy the situation cannot be used as evidence. So, Disney is free to make the correction without fear that their correction will be used against them in the lawsuit.

And, the correction is a good thing and the way it should be from the start…which, had it been, no lawsuit would have been needed.

I don’t mind the reservation system at all so it staying in existence is fine…honestly, if a park is sold out, I don’t want to be there, and at least now I have an idea ahead of time.

I do like the possibility though that this could cause Disney to come up with a different type of pass that has unlimited features within certain parameters, like the suggestion of an AP that functions like no expiration multi-day ticket when one is an onsite guest

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[mistysue]

While I don't have a crystal ball (no one does), my educated guess tells me even if they do sunset annual passes in their current form they will do something else for bulk price gate admissions. You might like it even more! Who knows? They will consider infrequent travelers, frequent locals, DVC owners, offsite avid Disney fans, the seniors or disabled who cannot tolerate a whole day in a park, special mobility needs, and many more groups. It is a complicated thing driven some by profit of the guest types, but also by more than that. Today's fans that buy DVC (often families) also raise tomorrow's fans. No better way to pass on family values and traditions. Not time to worry yet. They will tweak and adjust. It is an endless process.

There was a time I would have given anything for the tickets they sell international travelers- with 2-3 week ticket options as my first pick over APs. We used to be "once a year 14 day" travelers, and the 10 day tickets annoyed the crap out of me.

 

[AvidDisReader]

So APs go away permanently. How many people who own DVC for at least 8 years are going to want to sell their points, and pay rack rates or rent DVC points at today's prices? When I look at the current going rates it makes me ill. I guess if the decision is that it is no longer a desire to go to WDW at all, I could see selling off DVC points. Most of those that post on this forum are such big Disney fans, I just do not see it.

 

[sethschroeder]

Things have been removed and an alternative not given. Case in point…valet parking.

Except was that listed in the Membership Extras? From my understanding it sounded like Valet Parking was actually covered by MFs. Wasn't around back then though so not sure I would be interested in the language pre-2009 though.

 

[sethschroeder]

So APs go away permanently. How many people who own DVC for at least 8 years are going to want to sell their points, and pay rack rates or rent DVC points at today's prices? When I look at the current going rates it makes me ill. I guess if the decision is that it is no longer a desire to go to WDW at all, I could see selling off DVC points. Most of those that post on this forum are such big Disney fans, I just do not see it.

I don't think people are saying they will sell DVC and then go on cash. People are saying they will sell because the cost of Disney in general is too much at that point for what it is.

I would possibly just cut back to going every 4 or 5 years for a week and rent DVC Points from someone else at a discount. Might even just opt for Swan/Dolphin when the kids are older as well.

The exception is if WDW because much less busy and lightning lane was just included in the cost of the ticket and more in line with Universal. Otherwise tons of other options for vacations and I would likely use the money/time elsewhere.

 

[Sandisw]

Except was that listed in the Membership Extras? From my understanding it sounded like Valet Parking was actually covered by MFs. Wasn't around back then though so not sure I would be interested in the language pre-2009 though.

It was indeed a perk for DVC Owners and you showed your card when you took advantage of it. There one day and gone the next because some change with the vendor and costs DVD was paying.

 

[sethschroeder]

It was indeed a perk for DVC Owners and you showed your card when you took advantage of it. There one day and gone the next because the vendor changed.

I would want to see the contract language though. As an example Top of the World Lounge is a DVC benefit but not in the disclosure so removing access to it does not result in any of the membership extra language being impacted.

 

[Sandisw]

I would want to see the contract language though. As an example Top of the World Lounge is a DVC benefit but not in the disclosure so removing access to it does not result in any of the membership extra language being impacted.

TOTWL was never a membership extra. It’s commercial space so it’s not something paid for by DVD.

Let’s not go done the road again in this thread. Feel free to start a new one if you want to discuss whether or not any membership perk must exist for admission.

ETA. FL law prohibits the cost of any incidental benefit to be passed on to owners which is why valet parking cost was part of the extras.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

So APs go away permanently. How many people who own DVC for at least 8 years are going to want to sell their points, and pay rack rates or rent DVC points at today's prices? When I look at the current going rates it makes me ill. I guess if the decision is that it is no longer a desire to go to WDW at all, I could see selling off DVC points. Most of those that post on this forum are such big Disney fans, I just do not see it.

I had a great 20 year run. If it's over, it's over. I'll get over it. And make a good profit to spend doing something else.