AP Park Hopping Could Soon Be No More??

[TeddiBarra]

I love going to DLR (or at least, I *have* loved it for many years), but seriously...am I the only one who thinks it's beginning to turn into too much of a PITA to deal with??? I like going there, yes...but I'm not so addicted to it that I will adhere to any and all nonsense that Disney throws at consumers just to be able to go. It's a big country, and there are a LOT of other places to go (that are cheaper AND far easier to plan for).

Since we started going regularly again, in 2006, we've done three summer trips. I honestly have found that I dislike summer crowds and that they are distinct from other times of the year. I love the off season, but for me, I did see more problems during our trip in June. I do think prices have increased ALOT in the past three years (especially AP prices- ouch!). For me, I've decided to alter my expectations and/or just limit or not go at all during the summer. So for me, yes, it's a summer PITA.

I just got Gold passes to Great America. When it comes to guest behavior (except the alcohol thing, because Disney does CHOOSE to sell alcohol in DCA) I can't fault them for that- only the response to how they handle it. From the behavior that I've seen at Great America- I'd still give Disney guests a leg up.

It's just a rumor at this point. I would doubt they would restrict hopping to DAPs too. We'll have to see. If they change policies, and it adversely affects your family or the quality of you trips- tell them, tell them! They do put alot of time and effort into research (I always stop and give them my opinion with the survey folks and/or say yes when they ask if I will do a survey for them).

 

[Mugglemama]

Since we started going regularly again, in 2006, we've done three summer trips. I honestly have found that I dislike summer crowds and that they are distinct from other times of the year. I love the off season, but for me, I did see more problems during our trip in June. I do think prices have increased ALOT in the past three years (especially AP prices- ouch!). For me, I've decided to alter my expectations and/or just limit or not go at all during the summer. So for me, yes, it's a summer PITA.

I just got Gold passes to Great America. When it comes to guest behavior (except the alcohol thing, because Disney does CHOOSE to sell alcohol in DCA) I can't fault them for that- only the response to how they handle it. From the behavior that I've seen at Great America- I'd still give Disney guests a leg up.

It's just a rumor at this point. I would doubt they would restrict hopping to DAPs too. We'll have to see. If they change policies, and it adversely affects your family or the quality of you trips- tell them, tell them! They do put alot of time and effort into research (I always stop and give them my opinion with the survey folks and/or say yes when they ask if I will do a survey for them).

I do see what you're saying about Summer crowds vs. non-Summer crowds...ALTHOUGH, I must say that we've taken about 4 Summer trips to DLR in the last 6 years and last year was the first time I'd encountered ANY of those things I mentioned (the drunks, the people smoking pot openly in walkways, and full grown adults in ride lines who were about to conceive a baby right in front of us).

I would definitely be willing to take the time to communicate my opinion as a long-time DLR consumer...IF I thought it would actually be read by somebody who didn't just groan,"whatever" as they read it. I will follow your suggestion to tell them my thoughts... I wonder if they have an online submission form on their website??

 

[Greysword]

As an outsider (out of State visitor to DLR and WDW), I'm not sure how limiting APs to one park will really help the situation.

For one, Annual Passes allow you to enter any gate at any time, so there really isn't a "park hopper" component to it. Instead, the AP acts "like" a park hopper. Thus, an AP has the same effect regardless.

Second, if they attempt to limit AP holders to one park per day (once you enter a park, the AP won't work in the other park's gate), this still wouldn't effect the local visitor that is there for a few hours. I would think these guests will simply go into the park that holds the ride/show/event they want to see and remain in this park for a few hours before leaving. If they wanted to visit the other park, they simply return tomorrow. Thus, limiting AP usage to one park/day probably won't have the desired effect on local visitation patterns.

Such a limitation would effect visitation patterns by those from outside the local area. If a family traveling from out of State (or up-State) can not use their APs to move between parks, then it reduces their vacation value, since they will only have a limited amount of time within Anaheim. As such, these restriction would likely hurt the out of town guests more than locals, which is ironic, since the measures appear to be an attempt to make DLR more inviting to guests staying at the DLR (frequenting hotels and restaurants).

 

[EmmersIsTheMommy]

I love going to DLR (or at least, I *have* loved it for many years), but seriously...am I the only one who thinks it's beginning to turn into too much of a PITA to deal with??? I like going there, yes...but I'm not so addicted to it that I will adhere to any and all nonsense that Disney throws at consumers just to be able to go. It's a big country, and there are a LOT of other places to go (that are cheaper AND far easier to travel to, and plan for).

Sigh.

This is sorta how I'm starting to feel while planning this trip. The dollar signs are starting to quadruple and I'm 10 months away.

 

[Carmatts]

I don't think this rumor comes to fruition. They will probably raise the park hopper option price some next year with Carsland opening, but that is about it. When DCA opened they were practically giving it away to try and force people over there. Now that the park has some traction they will capitalize on it and make you pay more for park hopping.

With So Cal AP's blocked right now, the parks are bursting at the seams, so let's stop the AP bashing. TDA has pushed the AP's and as a result have greatly increased attendance, especially during off season times. They still have ads all around the resort encouraging people to upgrade and so anything they do in the future is going to try and increase those numbers not decrease them. The parks are crowded and we may complain about it, but you really think Disney is concerned about being too busy?

I can see them fine tuning the So Cal AP's, by making say the So Cal Select AP a pure off season pass, which keeps the parks busy during these times, but they will not discontinue a successful program by getting rid of the So Cal AP's.

Another rumor that's been around is variable pricing. Summer and busy times being one price and off season a cheaper price. I could also see that happen to try and spread out their business.

 

[FlameGirl]

With So Cal AP's blocked right now, the parks are bursting at the seams, so let's stop the AP bashing.

I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone has been "AP bashing".

 

[LavenderPeach]

I find this rumor interesting because the first time we got APs was back when DCA was fairly new and they had different APs based on weather or not you wanted a pass for both parks or just one. And then they also had different levels of blockout days like they do now. We opted to get the AP that let us go to both parks but had more blockout days. Not long after we bought our passes the changed it so that all the APs were for both parks and since we already had both parks on our AP they upgraded the APs to the higher level with less blockout days. If this rumor turns out to be true it seems like they're going back to something similar that they had before.

 

[Mugglemama]

This is sorta how I'm starting to feel while planning this trip. The dollar signs are starting to quadruple and I'm 10 months away.

Right...for the same amount of money I would spend on 5 days at DLR, I can take my kids to multiple CA amusement parks and other fun destinations throughout the state. Knott's is like $33 with my AAA discount, and both Six Flags parks seems to always be running a deal where you can get tix for $35 (and the Six Flags by my house - Northern CA - is a marine park as well!...with killer whales, dolphins etc. AND a zoo, with elephants, giraffes, lions, etc...NO extra charge for any of it - just the flat fee admission price). Definitely makes DLR seem like waaaaay too much hassle, if there are many more "surprise" changes - like no PH'ing with AP's, etc.

Planning these multi-day trips to DLR for multiple people (next year I'm bringing my in-laws and nieces again - so that's 10 people total for our group - 5 of whom I was planning to buy AP's for!) is just getting to be too much drama for me. With all of the price hikes and ride closures and drunks and horrific crowds...I'm seriously considering taking our group to multiple fun places that they've never been before, near my home, instead of going through all the trouble of a DLR trip.

Now, if nothing major changes between now and next Summer, I'll keep my original plans. But I'm seriously teetering on the fence at this point...any negative changes from Disney before my trip, and I'm gonna jump off the other side (lol), scrapping the DLR trip to do other stuff instead.

 

[Disney Dreams]

Before anyone panics (too late?) over anything written in that, umm, well, I'll call it a blog...

There is not ONE single source cited in the entire writing. Not one.

"I’ve been given some very interesting information..." Really, by whom? Ooops, not noted.

"...the Disneyland Resort is apparently looking into many options." Really? Who said?
Oooops, not noted.

"... they may go so far as to remove it [Premium pass] from the list of tickets on the board entirely." Really? According to...?
Oooops, not noted.

"...they are said to be seriously considering removing the option of Park Hopping..." Really? Who said?
Oooops, not, well, you know.

Maybe I should go report a bunch of stuff I've reportedly heard. You know... from people. At the market. In the bank. At the hairdresser. Or maybe, I'll just wait for Disney to make an announcement and go from there.

- Dreams

P.S. Also, perhaps they should hire a proofer. "Descend" and "decent" are two very different words.

 

[tinkermomma]

This doesn't even make logical sense. Park hopping is to Disney's ADVANTAGE because it relieves the crowd in Disneyland.A major part of DCA was to draw people away from Dland and split their time between the two parks. Obviously that didn't work well when DCA opened and was such a flop, but ideally that's still the goal (Cars Land, for example). Park hopping eases overcrowding. Make the second gate as awesome and appealing as possible and pull people out of Dland in droves, while still keeping them in the resort.

Every person in DCA is one fewer person in Dland. If the point is to ease overcrowding without losing revenue, the best plan of action is to get as many people as possible out of one park and into the other. Restricting park hopping to only those with more expensive APs does the complete opposite.

Disney makes their money on food and merchandise, not ticket prices. Once you're in the resort, it doesn't matter which park you eat at or which park you buy souvenirs from, it's all resort money. Splitting the crowd between two parks rather than one is a win-win for everyone. Restricting APs to one park a day doesn't even make sense.

I agree with all of that except I would Say DLR not just ticket prices. They make money on everything. Ticket prices is just one piece of the equation. If it wasn't they never would have invented AP in the first place.

 

[starry_solo]

I remember when California Adventure first opened and there was NO option of park hopping with an annual pass. You could either purchase an annual pass for Disneyland or an annual pass for California Adventure, but not one for both parks. I believe there were 3 passes at the time, Premium, Deluxe, and one level of So Cal.

Then, TPTB decided to combine the APs (probably because they weren't getting enough traffic to California Adventure).

If they do an AP that you can go to both parks, but not both on the same day, I suppose that might be okay...

 

[cmwade77]

I have the premium pass, as quite often Saturdays are my only option to go. That being said, I think they need to go back to only selling a maximum number of each level of annual pass, then stop until someone doesn't renew. This would enable them to control crowds much better.

Failing that, another option that I could see is to put black out dates on park hopping for all but the premium passes, as some days will still be less crowded than others.

 

[Armadillo4]

Screamscape reports news and rumors. This didn't just happen so it's only a rumor.

This is rumor as of now, and not only is it just a rumor, but it is a rumor of something that is being discussed as one of many possibilities, not even a rumor saying it will happen for sure.

I agree with the above. I think this is only a rumor with little chance of happening. Or at least not happening for a few years. If the DCA expansion and facelift really succeeds and brings in more guests for longer stays, then I could see things changing in the future.

But DLR creates this problem, and then they try fixing it (IF this change happens, that is) in a way that will be very annoying...

Discussions about crowd levels often refer to a "problem" that Disney has to fix. From our perspective as visitors or Disney fans, a crowded park with long wait times and queues may be a "problem." But from Disney's perspective, a crowded park may not be a "problem" at all, but a desired outcome. Just something to think about when we discuss the crowd level issue on any forum. It's fun to think of possible solutions to reduce crowds, but I'm not sure if Disney thinks about it in the same way.

Right...for the same amount of money I would spend on 5 days at DLR, I can take my kids to multiple CA amusement parks and other fun destinations throughout the state...

But I'm seriously teetering on the fence at this point...any negative changes from Disney before my trip, and I'm gonna jump off the other side (lol), scrapping the DLR trip to do other stuff instead.

I don't think anyone would blame you at all for trying other stuff! I have a co-worker who was a longtime Disneyland AP holder with his family of 6. But they did not renew their APs two years ago and are putting that money to fund vacations to other cities, national parks and other activities. The rising cost of annual passes and increased crowds were the two biggest reasons for their decision. Yes, he does admit to having Disney withdrawals from time to time (my reports of riding Star Tours and seeing the new parade have made him quite jealous this summer LOL). But as a family, they are enjoying their other trips and activities. I know it's difficult for us die-hards to think of not visiting Disneyland, but it is possible. Wait, did I just write that?

 

[Sherry E]

...Discussions about crowd levels often refer to a "problem" that Disney has to fix. From our perspective as visitors or Disney fans, a crowded park with long wait times and queues may be a "problem." But from Disney's perspective, a crowded park may not be a "problem" at all, but a desired outcome. Just something to think about when we discuss the crowd level issue on any forum. It's fun to think of possible solutions to reduce crowds, but I'm not sure if Disney thinks about it in the same way.

Armadillo4 -

You quoted me (though my name was not showing) when you posted the above comment. The only reason I referred to it as a "problem" is because, as I recall, it was referred to as a "problem" (supposedly a problem as viewed by Disney, though we don't know if this is true) in the Screamscape article/blog that Kristin shared with us. Unless I am remembering incorrectly, they used the word "problem" or some equivalent to it in that Screamscape piece to describe how Disney was looking at the Park Hopping situation, so that's why I said "But DLR creates this problem, and then they try fixing it (IF this change happens, that is) in a way that will be very annoying..." I was using their choice of wording or sentiment. I was not saying that I, personally, thought it was a problem.

I never suggested any solutions as to how to reduce crowds. I am not even sure this stuff is happening. I said that sometimes I wish they would leave well enough alone.

I just wanted to make sure you realized why I said what I said since you quoted me..

 

[Armadillo4]

I just wanted to make sure you realized why I said what I said since you quoted me..

Yes, I see now. I didn't make the connection that you were referring to the Screamscape article. My apologies if it appeared that I was critical of your post. That was not my intent! I was looking to make a point about online discussions regarding crowd issues in the park--as this thread was veering in that direction. It sounds like we're actually in agreement more than anything else.

Circular threads about heavy crowds come up periodically on Micechat and they frustrate me, because invariably, someone (and usually more than one person) will remark that Disney should fix the crowding issue by doing XYZ (insert solution here). I just don't know if Disney thinks of crowds the same way that we do as guests. LOL!

And again, my apologies if I sounded critical of your post. I saw the word 'problem' and jumped on that to raise a point. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[cyclenut]

I remember when California Adventure first opened and there was NO option of park hopping with an annual pass. You could either purchase an annual pass for Disneyland or an annual pass for California Adventure, but not one for both parks. I believe there were 3 passes at the time, Premium, Deluxe, and one level of So Cal.

Then, TPTB decided to combine the APs (probably because they weren't getting enough traffic to California Adventure).

If they do an AP that you can go to both parks, but not both on the same day, I suppose that might be okay...

You are absolutely correct and the second one in this thread to state it, although it seems to have been largely ignored.

When DCA first opened it was thought to be a separate and very different destination. It was actually targetted at a different demographic. Families with teens and tweens and even young adults. When this failed, and it was obvious very quickly that it had failed, they tried to add more attractions for younger kids. To boost attendance even further they added park hoppers and somewhere in there they renamed the area to DLR.

Once DCA can stand on its own, I would expect Disney to seriously consider restricting park hopper options again. I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen first on the lower-end AP. They may reserve the park hopper option as some sort of ultra-premium. They could even consider setting them up where you can only go to one park each day. So you could choose DL on Tuesday and then DCA on Wednesday but you can't go back and forth.

Remember, I said seriously consider and/or experiment. It is all about revenue generation and finding a balance between that and the best guest experience.

As for the Southern California APs. If you look carefully at the blackout days, those APs are really only good for off-peak times. It is a good strategy to help keep attendance up during those times as it helps the park run more efficiently. Many of those passholders spend money while in the park so it does generate revenue. I can't see how the Southern California APs are part of any crowd issue, given their restrictions. I can't even purchase one and I live 15 minutes away! My work and personal schedule means it would be very difficult for me to find a time when I could go to the park on a non-blackout day. Deluxe is better, but I've had to go to the Premium to really get any use out of the passes. That's the point of the Disney strategy. They look at attendance figures when determining blackout dates and they they try to smooth those out to make it more predictable for passholders.

As for the article. It is not much more than an opinion piece from someone who has a little bit of information. I don't see it as wrong to share and publish an opinion. For those reading it, consider it a "heads up" or "reminder" that Disney is constantly looking at its admission policies/prices and they are always subject to change.

 

[rramstad]

Random aside for emphasis:

I think the article makes a point that is a bit lost in some of the back and forth.

If Disney is seeing large groups of people going en masse from one park to the other at specific times of the day i.e. for WoC or similar, I can totally understand why they wouldn't want to see this happening, if it results in overcrowding.

These people are already in one park -- they've already paid for admission and presumably if they weren't allowed to hop, they would probably stay in the park and continue to buy food and souvenirs.

These people presumably could just as easily see that attraction at another time -- they just prefer to see it now by hopping.

Basically it's possible that by eliminating hopping, or perhaps only allowing it in the earlier part of the day, or by restricting it somewhat, they might actually improve the park experience while still keeping the overall attendance.

Again, I'm being very specific here, I hope. If they see a dramatic back and forth, another example would be if they see a lot of re-entry to Disneyland at 10 PM, from people who have been at DCA all day, again, this is something that they might want to take action on.

Personally, I think that's the #1 reason to hop, and the #1 thing they need to fix if they intend to curb hopping. DCA needs to have the same hours as DL. Period, end of story. I think a LOT of people hop back and forth precisely to take advantage of the different opening times and to maximize hours in the park while still allowing for a mid day break if desired. If both parks were open the same hours, it becomes much less necessary to hop.

 

[TeddiBarra]

DCA needs to have the same hours as DL. Period, end of story.

YEP!

Al Lutz reported in one recent column about that issue. You're very right- there is the 10 pm crush that heads over to DL. His rumor was that when Carsland opens up they will then extend DCA hours to match DL hours, and on the days DL doesn't have MM, DCA would. It would be lovely if this is the case! It agree 100% that in and of itself will curb hopping (esp the nightime hopping). HOWEVER, the numbers are going to have to match up, right? Because pretty much only Disney knows the answer- but each parks has a cost per hour to operate. Wonder just how much that is- and really- to JUSTIFY longer DCA hours they need what? More visits! So anyone who thinks Disney is really looking to see fewer visitors, IMO is wrong. They may just try to entice different habits.

I'll tell you one other reason we hopped out of DCA many times- lack of food options! Now that there are two new well reviewed places, I may not need to take my crew to DL for that "rather have that than this" dinner or lunch meal.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

Random aside for emphasis:

I think the article makes a point that is a bit lost in some of the back and forth.

If Disney is seeing large groups of people going en masse from one park to the other at specific times of the day i.e. for WoC or similar, I can totally understand why they wouldn't want to see this happening, if it results in overcrowding.

These people are already in one park -- they've already paid for admission and presumably if they weren't allowed to hop, they would probably stay in the park and continue to buy food and souvenirs.

These people presumably could just as easily see that attraction at another time -- they just prefer to see it now by hopping.

Basically it's possible that by eliminating hopping, or perhaps only allowing it in the earlier part of the day, or by restricting it somewhat, they might actually improve the park experience while still keeping the overall attendance.

Again, I'm being very specific here, I hope. If they see a dramatic back and forth, another example would be if they see a lot of re-entry to Disneyland at 10 PM, from people who have been at DCA all day, again, this is something that they might want to take action on.

Personally, I think that's the #1 reason to hop, and the #1 thing they need to fix if they intend to curb hopping. DCA needs to have the same hours as DL. Period, end of story. I think a LOT of people hop back and forth precisely to take advantage of the different opening times and to maximize hours in the park while still allowing for a mid day break if desired. If both parks were open the same hours, it becomes much less necessary to hop.

There was a time when parkhopping at a specific time caused some issues. When the ELP was running at DCA, lots of people were trying to catch that parade then run over to DL to catch the fireworks, which created a huge log jam at the DCA exit and DL entrance. So Disney switched the direction of the parade so that it ended near the DCA entrance, thus making it to late to hop for the fireworks. Problem solved.

I still fail to see parking hopping, in general, as a problem; I agree with others that it actually can help minimize crowd issues. I do believe that Disney sees park hopping as an opportunity for an add-on, however, just like in WDW.

This is already the case with most non-AP tickets. There is no reason to think that some AP holders will not choose to save money and not hop or pay more and hop.

Just, like parking, I would expect that this wlll be an option on the DAP. And like parking, it may not be an option on the PAP, but the PAP will then be priced at an even greater premium to the non-hopping DAP.

So next year, you might be able to buy a non-hopper DAP for $389, a hopper DAP for $419 and a hopper PAP for $539. -- Suzanne

 

[skiingfast]

Having DL and DCA have the same hours is a terrible idea and should never happen if TDA has any common sense.

If both parks open and close at the same time, it would cause the lines into the parking areas, parking shuttle/trams, security, and ticket booths to be far worse. It would also make, Ball Harbor and I-5 worse to drive on. Elevators in the Disney hotels more crowded. The Restaurants out of the parks more crowed. Compunding problems everywhere.

You may never have noticed, all the shows, parades, WoC, F! and Fireworks are all staggered, think it's a happy accident?