Anyone regret buying DVC?

[Greg K.]

Our circumstances were different. We did Disney several times over several years, and spent tens of thousands of dollars on vacations before finally taking the DVC plunge. We paid cash for our points (selling some stock I'd inherited, that had dwindled significantly in value after 9/11).

The result? By essentially paying for all our lodging in advance, our vacations are now costing us about HALF what they did BEFORE DVC.

Like the others have said: Our only regret is that we didn't do it sooner...!



Think of it more as a pre-paid vacation, and NOT as an investment, and you'll appreciate the value more with every passing year. Also, if you want, you can pass it on to your kids or grandkids, or even give a few days as as gift, for a wedding or retirement or just a nice "thank you."

 

[sssteele]

We will forever want more DVC points! That's because we could be at WDW sixty days a year, and enjoy it for a long, long time. We have only stayed at three DVC resorts so far (Own BCV; stayed also at OKW and VWL), but we love them all! The exchange points seem very high for some trades (including other Disney parks and WDW "non-DVC properties), but we love WDW twice a year so we think we're getting a deal. We've never yet ventured "off-site", including other WDW resorts for points. We may someday do a Disney cruise or stay at Disneyland "on Disney property", but the cost doesn't seem too attractive. If you don't "LOVE" WDW and intend to vacation there or Hilton Head or Vero Beach, it's probably not a wise ......timeshare" choice. We own 300 points, and want to purchase 150-300 more upon retirement. We have one son, one DIL and two grandchildren, but primarily we are intending to "do our own thing" (babyboomer expression) during our post retirement years (Both 55; 2-3 years to go). If we buy too many points, we could regret it, but we would just say "Oh well", and let our son and grandchildren enjoy the "Magic that is Disney." Consider carefully - if you are a WDW fanatic, it seem like a "no-brainer", (at least to us).

 

[paulh]

if you want to still try outher disney resorts use them at weekends saving on points as we only get in to disney late 8 ish in evening we usaly stay on cash someware first couple of nights we have stayed in every disney hotel apart from the monorail hotels
Paulh

 

[disneycrazed139]

They liked getting bargains on codes and deals. Whenever Disney has a good deal (like free dining or the Fairytale package) some DVC members feel they are getting the short end of the stick.

I admittedly loved getting bargains on codes and deals. I just felt DVC was a better deal and could count on it long-term.

That said, who doesn't wish DVCers who used to be "hotelstayers" couldn't get in on the meal deals and other advantages that are offered to the public?

I don't think this is a black or white issue. I am very happy with DVC....but wouldn't justify the package deals now for myself....and, being the bargain hunter that I am, get a little frustrated that it now doesn't make sense to take advantage of the deals!

That doesn't mean I am dissatisfied. I just feel my bargain shopper bug come on every now and then.

 

[JR]

[ When you buy the DVC, it's not worth much and then it goes down in value every day. It is neither an investment nor a wise place to tie up your money.[/QUOTE]

We bought 210 OKW points on a resale from an owner about 5 years ago at 54 dollars a point with no closing costs. Please tell me how, after using these points for the past several years for vacations at WDW, they have gone down in value. Check the timeshare resale site.

JR

 

[SonicLogic]

I disagree with your comments about no savings, not a wise place to tie up your money, and daily declining value.

We have spent less dollars after several years. Our points and maintenance fees cost us less than any discounted rate we could have gotten at the resorts. Same vacationing patterns except now we are in one bedroom villas instead of deulxe and moderate resort rooms. Compare the costs of each. DVC is less money than not. So at least for us, and I suspect for many others it may be a reasonable undertaking.

Eventually the market value of the resorts will decline as you get closer to the end of the contract term. But that has not happened yet. The value has been increasing. Most of what I read says that around 10-12 years left in the contract is the tipping point (although none of us really know for sure).

You have to prepay the DVC and that is the main problem. Instead you could take that chunk of money and invest it in a no-load mutual fund (as just one example) and make enought money to pay for your annual WDW vacations and still have a lot of money left over.

Sonic- Do the math and see who is being foolish.

Say you knew you wanted to spend 1 week each spring in a deluxe. For this purpose say April 10 - April 17 each year.

BWI rack + taxes per night = 532.80 x 7 nights = $ 3729.60

vs DVC ownership of 181 points (based on pts needed in '06 and pts bot resale at $81)

181 pts x 81 + assumuptions for closing costs = $ 15,000.
37 years remaining in plan. 15K divided by 37 = $ 405.41 divided by 7 nights = $ 57.92 per night.



Annual fees (based on current) 181pts x $ 4.41 = $798.21
$798.21 divided by 7 nights = $ 114.03 per night

Purchase + Fees per night costs = $ 171.95, or $ 1203.65 per the week

Rack + taxes for that same week = $ 3729.60

Cost savings per year = $ 2525.95 - about a 67% savings over rack.

In my best Mr. T voice: I Pity the Fool!

You overlooked an important point. I can rent DVC points from a member. Asking price is usually about $10.00 per point but it's not hard to find points for $5.50 or $6.00. Why buy the contract when I can rent for far less money? However, if you want to buy the contract so you can rent to me, that's fine with me. DVC rental points are ubiquitous. I can rent anytime I wish without the hassles of buying that very expensive contract. I can make my money work for me in a sound investment that will compound my net worth and still have plenty of money to vacation at WDW at the DVC or other resorts of my choice.

I think it is a very wise choice to be able to vacation each year making family memories that will last a lifetime! Quite an investment in your family's future if you ask me!

You're right and I can't disagree with your logic. It's just an expensive way to go.

This is overstating it a smidge. You never save money by spending money, but if you are going to spend money on deluxe accomodations ANYWAY, DVC is the way to go.

If the only way you can get IN is by financing, it will be more expensive because of the interest, but up to this point, DVC has NOT gone down in value. Our 502 points cost us an average of $62 a point. What are they going for now?

It is NOT an investment, whether it is a wise place to tie up your money is up to you and what you want to do with your life.

Your points have gone down in value, see post below.

I have to reply to Sonic. Way off base on the value going down. We bought in 1995 for ~$59 per point. Disney has kept the value up with their ROFR. I
expect that we could sell our points for $70 - $80.

I am not saying that a DVC purchase is the best investment of all time. However, owners know pretty close what a WDW vacation will cost 20 years in the future. There is no option to invest that would allow us to take the kinds of vacation that we have had the last 10 years.

Yes, it expires in 2042, but in the interim we, our children, our grandchildren, our great grandchildren will have enjoyed many great vacations at WDW and other resorts.

I would be happy to show you our past vacations. Perhaps in hind sight, you could show me where we should have invested the $15,000 plus ~$880 annual fees and been able to duplicate the experiences.

The normal annual rate of inflation is 3%. Since 1995 your points purchased at $59.00 per point are now at $79.29 based upon inflation alone! So, your points have remained static and if you financed those points, then you're in the hole big time! Disney has not kept the value up with right of first refusal (ROFR). Also, your maintenance fees are just a financial drain.

Wow, with $15,000 plus $880 per year over 10 years, you could have stayed at all the WDW resorts you wanted and had a nice chunk of change left over!

 

[Lisa P.]

Laura12581, by your sig, you stayed at the ASMu in 1996, then offsite, then stayed onsite for 7 more visits - all at value and moderate hotels except for your honeymoon. You've enjoyed your vacations this way and don't indicate a plan to switch to deluxe hotel rooms from here on out. You would be financing a DVC purchase at today's prices. You have also not indicated whether you would be comfortable with using your points only for DVC stays during the lower cost Sun-Thu nights and staying elsewhere for cash on weekend nights (this makes it more cost effective).

Given your individual vacationing style, I would discourage you from buy with DVC. I may be in the minority here but I personally think that you'd probably end up spending more with DVC than without it, especially since you'd be financing at today's prices. This is JMHO of course.

We sold our DVC. I didn't regret buying but I bought with a CM discount and I sold without a broker (no commission) so selling cost me "nothing" (~$11, IIRC). This would not be your situation.

My recommendation would be to continue to go for the discount deals when possible. Enjoy your vacations with the full flexibility that cash permits. Consider renting points from an owner for a Sun-Thu stay if you want to try a DVC resort.

There are lots of ways to enjoy WDW!!!

 

[THEDISFANS]

If you have been 11 times, you will love dvc. You get to go more often. I wish we would have joined the first time we went.

 

[GrimGhost]

You have to prepay the DVC and that is the main problem. Instead you could take that chunk of money and invest it in a no-load mutual fund (as just one example) and make enought money to pay for your annual WDW vacations and still have a lot of money left over.

...Funny you didn't include exact figures and list fund names here. I find this very hard to believe.

 

[SonicLogic]

...Funny you didn't include exact figures and list fund names here. I find this very hard to believe.

Easy, any S&P 500 no-load fund would have paid about 11.99% during that period. Some more and some a little less, but 12% is the average. Hope this helps!

 

[princesses2]

I agree with Lisa P. and suggest that you try renting points first to see how you feel about DVC. It's good that you are not rushing into this and doing research before you decide. We don't regret buying into DVC but it was an impulsive purchase and only afterwards I found out resales. If we do add-ons in the future, I'd definitely look into those first. Good luck with your decision!

 

[JimC]

Easy, any S&P 500 no-load fund would have paid about 11.99% during that period. Some more and some a little less, but 12% is the average. Hope this helps!

The top rated low cost 500 index fund is Vanguard's Investor shares (Admiral shares which incur even lower costs did not exist ten years ago). It averaged annual returns of 9.87% over the last ten years and only if you reinvested all income. Over the same period the 500 index had average annual returns of 9.94%. Annual performance ranged from a single year high of 37.45% to a single year low of -28.62%. And those returns are not adjusted for inflation.

When I compare my costs of DVC vs no DVC I use an opportunity cost of 8% on the prepaid money which is a more balanced investment portfolio return. And DVC still comes out ahead.

 

[bwvBound]

Well said!

The people who regret it don't post here. Sometimes we get a glimmer:

1. They were happy offsite or in values or moderates. So DVC doesn't save them money, ends up costing more, and doesn't add value for them.

2. They liked getting bargains on codes and deals. Whenever Disney has a good deal (like free dining or the Fairytale package) some DVC members feel they are getting the short end of the stick.

3. They miss their regular resort and the "hotel." DVC IS A TIMESHARE. Its a nice timeshare, but it isn't a hotel. The hotel based DVCs (BCV/VWL/BWVs) are more hotel-like, and most DVC members like the rooms more than a hotel room - regardless of DVC resort, but some people like daily maid service, two beds in a studio (instead of the pullout) and staying at the Poly or GF. I'm actually a little divided on this one myself. If it weren't for the kids, I'd rather stay at a regular resort and not a timeshare - its the additional rooms with kids that make DVC attractive to me.

4. Their financial circumstances change (or they bought spur of the moment while on vacation), and they can't afford it. Or their vacation habits change, or.....

5. They can't plan several months out. DVC works best if you book your home resort 7-11 months out and switch at seven. People looking now for rooms in early December are waitlisting for parts of their stay. That's unusual, but not unheard of.

6. They bought a large resort and hoped to stay at a small resort (or get BW Standard View rooms without owning there or Grand Villas at OKW). DVC says you can stay at any DVC resort, and you can. Based on availablity. We think there isn't and won't be huge problems for those that call right at seven months to switch, but it may be more of a hassle than you are looking for.

7. People who bought looking for perks. DVC perks are subject to change. Currently we get a great AP discount, but no other major park pass discount. There are some dining discounts, limited pool hopping privledges, sometimes a special pin. Disney does not reward DVCers loyalty with copious discounts and lots of pixie dust.

 

[SonicLogic]

The top rated low cost 500 index fund is Vanguard's Investor shares (Admiral shares which incur even lower costs did not exist ten years ago). It averaged annual returns of 9.87% over the last ten years and only if you reinvested all income. Over the same period the 500 index had average annual returns of 9.94%. Annual performance ranged from a single year high of 37.45% to a single year low of -28.62%. And those returns are not adjusted for inflation.

When I compare my costs of DVC vs no DVC I use an opportunity cost of 8% on the prepaid money which is a more balanced investment portfolio return. And DVC still comes out ahead.

Well, various S&P 500 index funds have been around since 1957, so they're not exactly new kids on the block. Certainly Vanguard's offerings have been among the best, but still not the best. The Vanguard S&P 500 expense ratio is 0.19% (i.e. rather high IMHO).

The Barclays Equity Index Fund holds primarily shares of the Barclays Equity Index Master Fund. They charge .06 (basis points) per $1,000 of account balance. Since its inception on January 29, 1988 it has been a very good investment. During the period I mentioned, it earned 12.4% (without deductions) and 12.1% after expenses. It has outpaced inflation 4 times over! You can buy it without a broker. It's a very conservative and safe index fund. However, I no longer invest in that fund.

I have always been a proponent of the idea that every individual should take the time to manage their own money rather than rely upon a "certified financial planner". After all, it's your money and you should manage every penny yourself. It doesn't take a great deal of skill or time to find profitable investments.

 

[gscott8075]

We originally bought DVC in order to provide quality vacations for my family at WDW.


We had never thought of going to HH or VB. We tried both of them and fell in love with HH and enjoy Vero immensely.

We have not been to WDW in three years - but have had 5 vacations at HH and VB. We ask our kids year after year where they want to go (ages 10 and 12) and they choose the beach resorts because they are more intimate and they enjoy the kids programs.

I can tell you - you would be hard pressed to find a better value at either place - especially HH. The condos on either side of the Disney resort are selling for 400-500K.

So, I would say DVC has opened our horizons to other wonderful destinations.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

After all, it's your money and you should manage every penny yourself.

I actually agree with this quote. Its your money and you should do with it whatever makes you feel comfortable. I have a family member who has millions of dollars in the bank, but refuses to carry a mortgage for any kind of tax benefit. They grew up poor, and the emotional benefits of knowing that he owns his huge house, instead of doing the financially smart thing and investing that money elsewhere is worth it to him. If he put that money somewhere else, the stress would prob. give him ulcers. The OP asked if people regretted buying DVC. Are you a DVC member? If everyone on this board is happy to spend even $100,000 of their money on DVC, and it were a poor investment (which I don't think it is) its their money and they are happy with it. There are psychological benefits to owning things that don't show up on paper.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

We originally bought DVC in order to provide quality vacations for my family at WDW.


We had never thought of going to HH or VB. We tried both of them and fell in love with HH and enjoy Vero immensely.

We have not been to WDW in three years - but have had 5 vacations at HH and VB. We ask our kids year after year where they want to go (ages 10 and 12) and they choose the beach resorts because they are more intimate and they enjoy the kids programs.

I can tell you - you would be hard pressed to find a better value at either place - especially HH. The condos on either side of the Disney resort are selling for 400-500K.

So, I would say DVC has opened our horizons to other wonderful destinations.

I totally agree with this. If you buy and make use of the DVC offsite resorts as stand alone vacation desinations you will always spend less money than staying onsite. These resorts are great and offer a great change to the typical WDW vacation. We can spend 6 nights at HH for <$500 including traveling and food. This was the DVC tipping point for me. Even being frugal at WDW, we always spend three to four times that.

We paid for our DVC with an inheritance. I can't think of a better use for that money. Every trip we take provides use with happy memories of family including my very thoughtful Aunt and Uncle who made DVC possible for us.

 

[jag90]

We live < 2 hours from WDW, go approx 8 to 10 times per year (mostly to WDW, sometimes to VB and/or HH), have been DVC members since 2001, still kicking ourselves for not joining sooner!

 

[Man_Of_Leisure]

You have to prepay the DVC and that is the main problem. Instead you could take that chunk of money and invest it in a no-load mutual fund (as just one example) and make enought money to pay for your annual WDW vacations and still have a lot of money left over.[/QUOTE=SonicLogic]

As I see it your logic is correct but it is not realistic. If your money is tied up in an investment how do you propose getting to it to pay for your vacation? As has been pointed out, the return on your investment in a mutual fund is going to fluctuate. This year I may see a 20% return on my money, next year I may see a 10% loss. How do I plan for that? If I take my profit to pay for this years vacation and the market has a big loss next year, then I'm in the hole. You would have to have not only the money in the market, but the additional cash on the side to pay for your vacation in order to leave your investment alone for the long term to pay back the 'loan' you made to yourself for your vacations. It is just like the dependent flexiable spending account, if you don't have the cash flow for both the withdrawals to the holding account and the money available to make the day care payments until you can get reimbursed then it can't help you.

The reality is most people don't have that kind of money laying around to invest in both mutual funds, real estate, or anything else to pay for their vacation. Vacation money is generally considered 'disposable' or 'expendable' income and the intrinsic value gained by spending it is something far different than that gained from a financial investment.

Most people will finance their DVC membership while hoping to pay it off early. In my case I purchased 300 points and my monthly payments will be around $400.00 per month (this includes maintenance fees) for a total of $4800 per year for ten years (I plan to pay my loan off in five years, eliminating a huge chunk of interest). This unfortunately means that I will have to wait a couple of more years before I buy that new truck. My family's vacationing needs generally includes two weeks a year at WDW while staying at a moderate hotel on-site; however, we have stayed at the BWI on a few occassions and although they can be expensive, we liked staying in the deluxe hotels .

With our DVC membership we now get to stay in what I would consider deluxe accommodations and for the first ten years not pay that much more than if paying cash (If I don't pay it off early). The true value is based upon the time of the year you visit, the days of the week you visit and the type of room you stay in. Let me explain how I see it.

If my family stayed in a studio at SSR, our home resort , for one full week during the magical season (typically during the summer) and one full week during the peak season (typically during Christmas week), including weekends, it would cost 286 points, leaving me 14 points to bank for next year. The 2006 rates for those same rooms during the magical season is $299.00 X 7 = $2093.00 and for the peak season it is $349.00 X 7 = $2443.00 for a total of $4536.00. That doesn't include taxes and the other charges tagged on. If you can get a discount, which you normally can't during those times of the year, it may cover the taxes and other charges, so I'm still paying $4800 over 12 months for at least $4500 in accommodations. And if you remember I still have 14 points worth at least $15.00 each (if used during the magical season) for another $200 to be used next year. My actual plans are different from that and I anticipate an increased cost/benefit ratio for my points.

As soon as I pay off my initial investment then I will realize the true value of my membership, because now I am paying only my maintenance fees to cover the costs of those rooms. I understand that you already know this but I went through this exercise for those individuals who may be looking at these posts trying to determine if DVC is the way to go for them. There are of course other monetary factors involved including size of down payment, lack of closing costs when financing through Disney, any current incentives being offered, etc. and other non-monetary factors such as how often one travels to WDW, how important is staying on properties, and what type of accommodations you like to stay in.

This is just one way to look at. In an actual economic sense, just as you have proposed, you would have the real time value of money and inflation versus returns on investment, etc.; however, the numbers used to calculate the values achieved, although historic in nature, are purely speculative and causes me to pull my hair out just thinking about it! Thank goodness for Disney.

Having enough cash flow to do as you have suggested is nice; however, IMHO it's not realistic for most people. According to your logic, one should not buy a car, pay for Christmas or even buy food until you first invest your money and then use the profit realized to make your purchases.

When it comes to my vacations, I won't be subscribing to your economic theory.

Man Of Leisure

 

[Cinderella]

This is a tough one - I bought just over four years ago, and for personal reasons have not been able to visit as much as I have liked ie - business commitments, and separating from my husband. But, I have also used it for some good trades, including two trips to DLP, and also rented out my points one year.

We are planning a big trip for next May, and I am renting 198 points as I have a new partner, so we have five kids between us. Before DVC, there were four of us, two adults and two younger children, and we used to stay 14 nights at a time in a deluxe resort. Now, with this extended family, we need the space of DVC - even two rooms in a deluxe would be cramped. I think, if you plan to go often, and prefer to stay in a deluxe resort - dvc is good value. True, if you stay in a moderate or a value, and only need one room, it may not be such good value. But, I know for a fact, I honestly wouldn't stay in a moderate or a value for more than three days - that is just personal preference.

For me, if you plan to go at least every two or three years, for one trip, it is excellent value. My new partner was astonished at the cost of the extra points we are renting for this trip, until I showed him what the rack rate would have been for the entire trip - more than five thousand british pounds!