Anyone interested in doing a bible study? Current book: Joshua

[Lessa of Pern]

Ahh hah, thanks Lessa. I obviously need to go review Moses' life.

Now... what's a timbrel? Is that like a tamborine?

yes, atimbrel is like a tambourine.

 

[Lessa of Pern]

compare that map -- where the 12 tribes located -- to a map of the modern middle east. the Eurphrates is in present-day Iraq, not some place we'd ever consider to be part of the ancient Holy Land.

 

[Rajah]

I used a Jewish translatiion of the text: After the death of Moses the servant of the Lord, the Lord said to Joshua son of Nun, Moses' attendant:

very different meaning than "minister" or "servant" -- although you used "minister" as having a similar meaning to a minister in a church, "ministers" are also governmental officials, heads of departments. but an attendant is different from a minister, isn't it?

translations should always be read in context -- you read a Christian translation of the text ands gave a Christian interpretation. I am more familiar with tranlations done by Jewish scolars, and would never have interpreted the text the way you did.

Have you found a place online to see the Jewish translation? I'd like to compare that as well.

And good point -- I'm interpreting it with my understanding of the terms currently rather than the historical / cultural translation.

 

[Rajah]

the twelve tribes of Israel

Jacob fathered 12 sons. They are the ancestors of the tribes of Israel, and the ones for whom the tribes are named. Each occupied a separate territory (except the tribe of Levi, which was set apart to serve in the Holy Temple).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Asher
Benjamin
Dan
Gad
Issachar
Joseph*
Judah
Levi
Naphtali
Reuben
Simeon
Zebulun


(Around the Tabernacle and in order of their marches)

The Eastern Tribes

Judah
Issachar
Zebulun

The Southern Tribes

Reuben
Simeon
Gad

The Western Tribes

Ephraim
Manasseh
Benjamin

The Northern Tribes

Dan
Asher
Naphtali

*The sons of Joseph, Ephraim and Menasseh, were also given the status of independent tribes.

Cool, thanks!!! That's the type of resource I need, too!

Man I've forgotten a lot about the time of Moses.

And as for Iraq -- actually, I do think of Iraq / Iran /etc as the old Holy Land.

 

[Lessa of Pern]

Jewish translation


one thing you have to understand, Rajah.

the fundamental story of your faith is the death and ressurection of Jesus. you read Old Testament with an understanding of your fundamental story in your mind, and you view Old Testament as a precursor to the New.

for Jews, the fundamental stories of our faith are the covenant the Lord made with our father Abraham, which we veiw as eternal, the Exodus from Egypt and the giving of the Law to Moses at Mount Sinai. the Law is contained in Torah -- the Five Books of Moses --and is considered sacred. any Jewish child with an appropriate religious school education can tell you the major events of the Torah as easily as you could tell me the story of the Nativity.

we consider the rest of the Old Testament to be holy scripture, but we don't hold it in the same reverence as we do Torah.

the Torah contains 613 commandments -- including the 10 you are most familiar with. just look at the 10 commandments and you'll see that half of them deal with our relationship to G-d and half with our relationship to our fellow human beings. the remaining 603 commandments are laws dealing with everytihing from the spiritual to the mundane -- laws on how to make sacrifices to G-d, laws on marital relations, laws on how to treat employees, laws on how to farm.

in Deuteronomy the office of "judge" is created when it becomes too difficult for Moses to personally interven in eveyr dispute among the people of Israel.

so to refer to Joshua as a "minister" in the governmental sense might not be off target.

 

[Rajah]

Ahhh, good point!

I'm really glad you decided to join in on this, Lessa! I think it's great having a Jewish point of view on all of this!

 

[Lessa of Pern]

actually, in ancient times, Iraq went by a different name -- Mesopotamia. the land between the Tigris and the Euphrates. the city of Ur, the birthplace of Abraham and Sarah, was in Mespotamia.

later, the Kingdom of Babylon existed where Mesopotamia once stood. the Babylonian exile that you read about in Jeremiah ..the Jews were exiled to the area between the Tigris and the Euphrates. so, in a way, it's part of the ancient Biblical world -- much of the Bible takes place there -- but it was never part of any ancient Kingdom of Israel.

 

[Rajah]

Okay, so when they refer to Babylon / Babylonia in later texts, that's the area that we now call Iraq/Iran?

 

[Lessa of Pern]

yes, Babylonia=Iraq. Persia = Iran.

 

[Rajah]

Ahh hah. That makes it easier for me to visualize, thank you!! That was one of the things I was wanting to look up for my study of Daniel while I was at it.

 

[DStar4cup]

Lessa Thank you so much for your input. You are opening doors that I had never really thought about. Having your knowledge of present day places as the relate to Biblical times is wonderful. I get so lost when looking at maps and you have really helped!!!

 

[Lessa of Pern]

my pleasure.

I knew that degree in history would come in useful someday.

 

[helenabear]

Wow, it is really cool to get your input with this Lessa! I love all you've added with that point of view.

I admit I am reading the New American Translation (The New Catholic Translation) since I'm Catholic and that's all I have in the house (three of them too). I need to hunt up the one we have that's a study version though. It answeres more questions than the one I have does.

It's very interesting to me to see how Joshua is described. In mine it lists him as an "aide" I guess I always saw him as one beneath Moses, but very well thought of spiritually otherwise.

 

[Lessa of Pern]

It's always been in my plans to visit Israel eventually, so I've done some historical/archeologic/Bibilical research. you know that there are a lot of Israelis who seeks archeological means to prove or disprove the events described in the Bible.

did you know that the word for Egypt in Hebrew is "Mitzrayim"? it means "the narrow place".

anciet Egypt was a narrow strip of land on either side of the Nile.

of course, there are rabbis who use "narrow place" in a more spiritual context -- not only were the Israelites freed from physical slavery in Egypt, they were freed from the narrow constraints of Egyptian society to become spiritual and to worship the Lord.

 

[Lessa of Pern]

with Rajah under mandatory evacuation...are we going to move on to chapter 2? I suppose she'll pop back in here in a few days, so let's keep going and I'm sure she'll catch up.

 

[serenity1991]

did you know that the word for Egypt in Hebrew is "Mitzrayim"? it means "the narrow place".

Excellent bit of info! Hey Lessa, DH and I study Torah on a regular basis and of course know a bit of Hebrew. DH knows A LOT more than I! He likes your fact about what Mitzrayim means and would like to know where you got that from. Would love to share it with our congregation on Saturday.

 

[Buckalew11]

All so interesting! DD has learned a lot of the historical stuff in Ancient World geography--otherwise I would have not known any of lesa's facts! I never learned this type of stuff in school or church. Thanks for all the history and putting it into perspective.

 

[helenabear]

I tried getting to this earlier, but no luck (thanks to the DIS)

I would prefer to wait for Tammi to return... in the mean time I'm keeping her and all in Rita's path in m prayers.

 

[Rajah]

Okay, now that Rita is passed and I have my computer back online, shall we move on to chapter 2?

Thanks again, everyone!!

 

[helenabear]

Tammi, welcome back! I'm ready to move onto chapter 2