Anyone interested in doing a bible study? Current book: Joshua

[MickeysMommy]

We were worried about you, Tammi. Glad you are back.

 

[Rajah]

Thanks. Anyone read Joshua 2 yet?

 

[live4christp1]

Thanks. Anyone read Joshua 2 yet?

I have read it but it's been several days so I need to go back and re-read it again. Been really busy here and with out troops popcorn sale. Will read again tonight and post tomorrow.

Glad you made it through the storm!

 

[helenabear]

I got totally side tracked with church things yesterday, Tammi. I will read tonight as it has been a while since I've read it

 

[Lessa of Pern]

Excellent bit of info! Hey Lessa, DH and I study Torah on a regular basis and of course know a bit of Hebrew. DH knows A LOT more than I! He likes your fact about what Mitzrayim means and would like to know where you got that from. Would love to share it with our congregation on Saturday.

I learned aobut the translation from my Rabbi, but I was able to hunt down a source for you.

link to info about Passover


they tell you the meaning of several hebrew words, you'll find it interesting.

 

[Rajah]

Okay, I've read Joshua 2 twice now and did a little reading in my bible handbook last night (Ungers Bible Handbook, some great stuff in there).

Who:
Joshua -- sent 2 spies; Also of note is that Joshua was once a spy himself (found that in Ungers, but I forget where it was from...).
The 2 spies -- unnamed men from ****tim who were sent into the city
Rahab -- a prostitute and apparently inn owner
King of Jerico -- was told about the spies
Sihon and Og -- Two kings of the Amorites who were destroyed
God -- Mentioned here because He was called by Rahab as more powerful than the "other" gods

Where: Jerico

Thoughts:
The first version of this I read was from the Living Bible (LB), and the second from the NIV version. Some differences in connotation:
-In the NIV version, Rahab is listed as a prostitute and MAYBE an innkeeper. In LB, she was both.
-In LB, Rahab specifically said that the God of the Israelites was truely a god above the other gods -- she specifically mentions other gods, which can be implied that the people of Jerico worshiped other gods. In the NIV version, she just says "God is God in heaven above and on the earth below", not mentioning any others.
-In LB, it's just the city guards who come to Rahab searching for the spies. In NIV, it's specifically stated that the guards are from the King. Which makes sense. All the other versions I read also specifically stated the King. Maybe I was just too tired to catch the king reference.
-In LB, the spies aren't mentioned as being from ****tim as they are in NIV.

I did a cross-reference to learn a little more about ****tim. Apparently, that's where Joshua is currently camped?

Another thing that was pointed out in Ungers and via cross-reference on Bible Gateway was that Rahab, though she was a prostitute, was forgiven and spared because of her faith.

And why were the spies told to hide for 3 days? Is that the typical search period? Or were the gates closed for the weekend? Or is that a symbolic number representative of the Holy Trinity?

Something of note regarding God's promise to the Israelites -- Rahab mentions "I know that the LORD has given you the land, and that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have melted away before you (NASB)". This ties in via cross reference to the promise God made in Exodus 23:27 ("I will send My terror ahead of you, and throw into confusion all the people among whom you come, and I will make all your enemies turn their backs to you.) and Deuteronomy 2:25 (25'This day I will begin to put the dread and fear of you upon the peoples everywhere under the heavens, who, when they hear the report of you, will tremble and be in anguish because of you.').

BTW -- the NASB on BibleGateway has all these cross references.

 

[Lessa of Pern]

interesting. in the Jewish translation I just read, she's reffered to as a "harlot" and the spies are hidden in her "house" -- no further description, except that her house is at the city wall. in this translation there's no reference to other gods.

 

[Lessa of Pern]

just read a different translation, also a Jewish source. the english is different from the first translation, but substantively the same as the first.

 

[Rajah]

Yeah, the only one I read that had mention of other gods was the Living Bible, which makes me think that was a mis-translation. It *is* a paraphrase.

Also, isn't a harlot the same as a prostitute?

 

[Lessa of Pern]

from dictionary.com:

har·lot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (härlt)
n.
A woman prostitute.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English, vagabond, rogue, lecher, harlot, from Old French arlot, herlot, vagabond.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
harlot·ry (-l-tr) n.
Word History: The word harlot nowadays refers to a particular kind of woman, but interestingly it used to refer to a particular kind of man. The word is first recorded in English in a work written around the beginning of the 13th century, meaning “a man of no fixed occupation, vagabond, beggar,” and soon afterwards meant “male lecher.” Already in the 14th century it appears as a deprecatory word for a woman, though exactly how this meaning developed from the male sense is not clear. For a time the word could also refer to a juggler or jester of either sex, but by the close of the 17th century its usage referring to males had disappeared.


Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


harlot

n : a woman who engages in sexual intercourse for money [syn: prostitute, cocotte, *****, bawd, tart, cyprian, fancy woman, working girl, sporting lady, lady of pleasure, woman of the street]


Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University


harlot

(1.) Heb. zonah (Gen. 34:31; 38:15). In verses 21, 22 the Hebrew word used in
_kedeshah_, i.e., a woman consecrated or devoted to prostitution in connection
with the abominable worship of Asherah or Astarte, the Syrian Venus. This word
is also used in Deut. 23:17; Hos. 4:14. Thus Tamar sat by the wayside as a
consecrated kedeshah. It has been attempted to show that Rahab, usually called
a "harlot" (Josh. 2:1; 6:17; Heb. 11:31; James 2:25), was only an innkeeper.
This interpretation, however, cannot be maintained. Jephthah's mother is called
a "strange woman" (Judg. 11:2). This, however, merely denotes that she was of
foreign extraction. In the time of Solomon harlots appeared openly in the
streets, and he solemnly warns against association with them (Prov. 7:12; 9:14.
See also Jer. 3:2; Ezek. 16:24, 25, 31). The Revised Version, following the
LXX., has "and the harlots washed," etc., instead of the rendering of the
Authorized Version, "now they washed," of 1 Kings 22:38. To commit fornication
is metaphorically used for to practice idolatry (Jer. 3:1; Ezek. 16:15; Hos.
throughout); hence Jerusalem is spoken of as a harlot (Isa. 1:21).

(2.) Heb.
nokriyah, the "strange woman" (1 Kings 11:1; Prov. 5:20; 7:5; 23:27). Those so
designated were Canaanites and other Gentiles (Josh. 23:13). To the same class
belonged the "foolish", i.e., the sinful, "woman." In the New Testament the
Greek pornai, plural, "harlots," occurs in Matt. 21:31,32, where they are
classed with publicans; Luke 15:30; 1 Cor. 6:15,16; Heb. 11:31; James 2:25. It
is used symbolically in Rev. 17:1, 5, 15, 16; 19:2.

 

[MickeysMommy]

I have the New Living Translation bible and it says she is a prostitute and the spies were staying at her house. Interesting the different translations.

 

[Rajah]

Interesting, Lessa. I wonder if the same word was used for Rahab? I'm guessing so?

In verses 21, 22 the Hebrew word used in
_kedeshah_, i.e., a woman consecrated or devoted to prostitution in connection
with the abominable worship of Asherah or Astarte, the Syrian Venus. This word
is also used in Deut. 23:17; Hos. 4:14. Thus Tamar sat by the wayside as a
consecrated kedeshah. It has been attempted to show that Rahab, usually called
a "harlot" (Josh. 2:1; 6:17; Heb. 11:31; James 2:25), was only an innkeeper.
This interpretation, however, cannot be maintained.

And the part that I bolded indicates that there were other gods involved in the culture, and so the Living Bible translation's statement that Rahab said the Israelites God was not like other gods, he was "real" (or something to that effect) and he was above them is a potentially valid statement.

I'll have to type up the exact wording from my Living Bible at home. Do remember though, it's a paraphrase moreso than a literal translation. Just a bit easier to read.

 

[Rajah]

Bumping for more input

 

[Lessa of Pern]

it does make for interesting insight -- you translate from your own persepctive.

you know the 23rd psalm? "the Lord is my shepard, I shall not want..."

I've seen it translated as "the Lord is my shepard, I shall lack for nothing..."

in 17th century England, "want" had a different meaning than it does now. "for want of a nail the shoe was lost".

 

[Rajah]

Very true.

 

[helenabear]

interesting. in the Jewish translation I just read, she's reffered to as a "harlot" and the spies are hidden in her "house" -- no further description, except that her house is at the city wall. in this translation there's no reference to other gods.

We had the exact wording in the New American edition (Catholic) bible as well. I have never read the word "inkeeper" just for Rahab as well.

But below in the "notes" section on this Bible, it does say
"harlot: this is the regular equivalent of the Hebrew word, but perhaps it is used hre of Rahab in the broader sense of a woan who kept a publi house. Joshua's spies hoped to remain undetected at such an inn"

Honestly this is the first time I've read in this version (more of a study version) anything like that. In the past I assumed she was a woman who owned a "***** house" and nothing else. I need to hunt up the real study Bible we have somewhere to see if there is anything else said.

Also no mention of other gods as well.

"At these reports, we are discouraged becuase of you, since the Lord, your God, is God in heaven above and on earth below"

I do read into that one though, and have always figured that people of that location were worshiping other gods at that time. Some thing about about need to specify "your God" that gets me to feel that way.

In general though, I always pictured Rahab as being a prostitute who was eventually rewarded for her good deeds and faith. There is a cross reference to Hebrews 11:31 (stating harlot again) and again in James 2:25
Hebrews was refering to her faith that saved her, yet James would state the argument for faith w/o works is "as dead as a body without breath"
Which of course that is a whole other argument for other days I think (faith vs works that is)

I need to dig out the other bible... it really makes me wonder... was she not as bad as I once thought? Or was she praised in spite of her "sexually immoral" ways.

 

[serenity1991]

I learned aobut the translation from my Rabbi, but I was able to hunt down a source for you.

link to info about Passover


they tell you the meaning of several hebrew words, you'll find it interesting.

THANKS! GREAT INFO!!

 

[Rajah]

was she not as bad as I once thought?

I think she was. I think she was selected (either by the author or by God) to be an example of how, even if you've done some really bad things, with faith and turning of a new leaf you can be forgiven

 

[helenabear]

I found the other Bible that belongs to my DH... noticed it was NT only . I am just confused as to why the one I read tried to play down the harlot role then, especially given the cross references in the NT.

However I looked in my other Bible that I keep by my bike for reading while exercising, and it flat out said prostitute.

Call me a bit crazy, I am kind of glad that it didn't "play down" her role like the other did, for the exact reasons you said

 

[Lessa of Pern]

but if you think about it...where else but a prostitute's house will two foreigners go to hide or blend in?