anyone have experience w/ children and the new body scanners?

[eliza61]

Just wanted you to know that I just had a pat down yesterday at the Philadelphia airport.

It was so uneventful as to be not worth reporting. The TSA did not "touch" my genitals and moved so lightly and quickly over my breast/chest areas that I almost had to make sure she did the actual search.

I know there are tons of internet stories of being be mauled, groped, sexually assualted, mugged and who knows what all but the tens of thousands of pervets working for the TSA but as a person who flys almost twice a month I have not run across them.

I am in no way discounting that is does happen just I do believe we've taken our entire frustration of the security process and dumped it onto to poor screener.

I would simply tell my kid what is involved in a pat down without scaring the bejeezus outta them and leave it at that. You will be there the entire time.

 

[Ariel on Land]

NotUrsula- again, thank you. We do have "leashes" for the boys (kinda comes with the territory of having twin toddlers! ) we haven't had to use them in awhile, but maybe I should re-think bringing them again on this trip. And yes, you're exactly right, there's NO WAY in a million years my kids would "stand still" out of my arms reach and wait quietly in a weird environment.

Bumbershoot- odd, I can see the timeline on my ticker... but we leave next Saturday morning. I am wondering how early we'll need to be for our departing flight-- it's at 7am, so much more than an hour before gets ugly! But I suppose we'll do our best to have plenty of time, and you're right- calm is always a good reminder. It's so easy to get frazzled when you're juggling kids, a stroller, carry ons, taking off shoes, etc!

 

[twinboysmom]

Ariel, my boys are younger than yours but myself and one of my sons were chosen for a pat down when we flew in August, not because of the scanners but because I brought liquids on board. I had to hold him in front of me and they did quite an inspection and did focus heavily in the diaper area. It wasn't too bad and she was playful and sweet to my son. I agree with your position on the scanners. I would not allow my boys through it. I also would not allow my boys to be inspected unless i was right there with them. Not 4 feet away, right there. An older child, maybe, a young child, not a chance.

 

[prncess674]

So let me get this straight, you think kiddies headed to WDW shouldn't be held to the same standards as everyone else? If you are traveling by commercial airline you are required to adhere to the TSA. If you find these rules outside of your comfort zone then you have every right to travel by private jet or private car which would eliminate any need for back scatter technology or metal detectors or diaper inspection.

I can guarantee if babies were excluded there would be some story of a large party of suspicious middle eastern men carrying babies who would claim "diaper amnesty" and then we would all be blown to bits.

The comedy of this is that the whole security dance is all just a ruse for the public. We are not any more safe today than we were pre 9/11. All the security theater is just a big play to make people think that air travel is safe. Americans pounded their feet and demanded safety but then whined when they too were subjected to the standards. The term NIMBY comes to mind.

If a person wanted to do harm why not go wait in the line pre-security at Washington Dulles or JFK airport and set off an underwear or shoe bomb right there, better yet a backpack size bomb. At 5pm on a Thursday evening there are easily 1,000 people crammed into the "security theater" area who could just as easily be blown to bits verses the 100 or 200 who may be on the average plane. The bonus to setting it off pre-security is they also shut down a major international airport.

As I stated previously, if you are uncomfortable with the procedures you have the option of traveling via private plane or private car. If you would like to change the rules call and complain to your senators and congressmen demanding change. Complaining on web forums is like screaming at the wall. If you want action regarding rules you don't like speak up to those who can change them.

 

[twinboysmom]

As per pp, I have no issue with security in regards to babies and diaper screenings. I take issue with my child being removed from me. There is no reason I should not be allowed to hold my child while he is being screened. They can screen both of us. If this means I don't fly, then I don't fly. I have no issue writing to my congressman and others of concern.

 

[prncess674]

there has been only 1 report of TSA ever removing a child from the parent and the parent was proved to be overly dramatic and basically a liar via the video tape:

Mother's account:
http://www.mybottlesup.com/2009/10/tsa-agents-took-my-son/

TSA specifically states they will not separate you from your child.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/children/index.shtm

TSA video evidence that shows that the woman above was just plain crazy. Perhaps she should lay off the wine and the Xanax
http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2009/10/response-to-tsa-agents-took-my-son.html

 

[pilotwife_02]

So let me get this straight, you think kiddies headed to WDW shouldn't be held to the same standards as everyone else? If you are traveling by commercial airline you are required to adhere to the TSA. If you find these rules outside of your comfort zone then you have every right to travel by private jet or private car which would eliminate any need for back scatter technology or metal detectors or diaper inspection.

I can guarantee if babies were excluded there would be some story of a large party of suspicious middle eastern men carrying babies who would claim "diaper amnesty" and then we would all be blown to bits.

The comedy of this is that the whole security dance is all just a ruse for the public. We are not any more safe today than we were pre 9/11. All the security theater is just a big play to make people think that air travel is safe. Americans pounded their feet and demanded safety but then whined when they too were subjected to the standards. The term NIMBY comes to mind.

If a person wanted to do harm why not go wait in the line pre-security at Washington Dulles or JFK airport and set off an underwear or shoe bomb right there, better yet a backpack size bomb. At 5pm on a Thursday evening there are easily 1,000 people crammed into the "security theater" area who could just as easily be blown to bits verses the 100 or 200 who may be on the average plane. The bonus to setting it off pre-security is they also shut down a major international airport.

As I stated previously, if you are uncomfortable with the procedures you have the option of traveling via private plane or private car. If you would like to change the rules call and complain to your senators and congressmen demanding change. Complaining on web forums is like screaming at the wall. If you want action regarding rules you don't like speak up to those who can change them.

Who said they thought babies should be excluded? All I have seen here is people wanting to be informed BEFORE they show up to the airport on how things are going to go down so they can 1) make a decision and 2) prepare themselves and their child.

 

[goofy4tink]

I don't see any posts here that say children should be exempt from the screenings. What I do see is a question about what is involved when children are screened. A parent wants to be informed about the proceedures, so asked a question. Nothing was said about the kids not being screened.

 

[prncess674]

I don't see any posts here that say children should be exempt from the screenings. What I do see is a question about what is involved when children are screened. A parent wants to be informed about the proceedures, so asked a question. Nothing was said about the kids not being screened.

Well according to the OP she doesn't want to expose her child to the back scatter machines nor does she want a TSA agent to pat down her child which would include the diaper area for fear of possible sexual assault. When she opts/refuses out of both methods for her child she is stating that the child should be able to fly without inspection.

I have shown a video example and quoted the TSA, that shows that your child will not be removed from your sight. If the OP is worried about her child being removed from her sight then she should print out the page from the TSA agent and calmly ask for a supervisor if an agent tries to remove your child from your sight.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Ok, I know this can be a viotile subject, and as I originally stated, we have our reasons to avoid the scanners, our minds are made up, so I'm not up to debating the safety of them or anything like that.

I just wanted to know if anyone on here has gone through with their families, how the pat-downs of children were handled. Like Becca has illustrated, we, as adults "understand" it as security, children don't. We teach our children it is NOT ok for anyone to touch them except for ourselves and their pediatrician. I'd like to hope the pat downs aren't that big of a deal, but since there have been a handful of reports that are causing distress to passengers, as a mom, I'm nervous!

I would not be the least bit annoyed at a child that hollared, "BAD TOUCH," if (again, that's IF) any person, in any situation, at an airport committed a "bad touch."

 

[Lewisc]

The OP said both the scanners and enhanced pat down "screams illegal". That may be her opinion but it's not the law.

All available evidence suggests the scanners are safe. A letter from professors at UCSF suggesting further research and listing some hypothetical risks doesn't prove anything. It suggests UCSF would like a research grant so they can perform some studies.

Not everyone can fly. Some people have a fear of flying. Some people severe pain in their ears. A variety of things help most people, but not everyone. A parent who knows their kids aren't capable of behaving shouldn't by flying with their kids.

There may be a small number of people who can't/won't fly because they have issues with TSA screening. It's already been established that we don't have a constitutional right to fly without going through security.

Parents who are unwilling to go through the scanners and who are unwilling to let their family be subjected to an enhanced pat down can't fly. Parents who are unable or unwilling to explain to their kids the difference between being molested and being checked because "some bad people use (might use) kids to sneak bad stuff on to a plane" shouldn't fly.

A child yells BAD TOUCH. My reaction would be A BAD PARENT didn't properly prepare their child for security is much more likely then a pedophile getting a job with the TSA and molesting kids in front of witnesses.


edited to add--Parents don't want their kid scanned. Afraid health risks that aren't presently know or are being covered up (maybe tin hat/maybe just cautions). OK Parents don't want their kids subjected to enhanced pat down. OK. Pick one. Not screening kids isn't an option.

Posted to agree with Ciciwoowoo--Some parents need to drive or pick a different vacation destination.
My opinion wouldn't be any different if a poster provides a link to some questionable TSA actions.

 

[Ciciwoowoo]

I personally think if you have any worries about the scans, you should probably just drive. We drove from Michigan to Florida this summer and we had a great time! Getting there was half the fun. We took our time and it was a great experience!

 

[bumbershoot]

Bumbershoot- odd, I can see the timeline on my ticker... but we leave next Saturday morning. I am wondering how early we'll need to be for our departing flight-- it's at 7am, so much more than an hour before gets ugly! But I suppose we'll do our best to have plenty of time, and you're right- calm is always a good reminder. It's so easy to get frazzled when you're juggling kids, a stroller, carry ons, taking off shoes, etc!

I see the words above, and the ticker itself with Pluto, but nothing below. Odd!

Our flight is at 6am...we're staying at a close-by hotel the night before, and we'll likely leave that hotel by 4, though we might fudge just a bit b/c we're so close and we know there won't be as many people there at that time as there will be later. It's going to be awful, but after almost missing that flight at LAX a couple years ago, we're even more cautious!

there has been only 1 report of TSA ever removing a child from the parent ...

And my report of *almost* being taken from DS when the TSA people forgot he was there. They sometimes get a bit focused and forget to listen. I'm so glad the fellow passenger noticed the barrette so I could just re-set the whole moment by going through and not setting off the detector.

If we hadn't been calm, it wouldn't have gone as well.

All I have seen here is people wanting to be informed BEFORE they show up to the airport on how things are going to go down so they can 1) make a decision and 2) prepare themselves and their child.

I don't see any posts here that say children should be exempt from the screenings. What I do see is a question about what is involved when children are screened. A parent wants to be informed about the proceedures, so asked a question. Nothing was said about the kids not being screened.

I agree with both of those!

Well according to the OP she doesn't want to expose her child to the back scatter machines nor does she want a TSA agent to pat down her child which would include the diaper area for fear of possible sexual assault. When she opts/refuses out of both methods for her child she is stating that the child should be able to fly without inspection.

She hasn't said what you're saying. Apart from extra thoughts, when you boil down what she is saying...

I'm curious if they'll use the "enhanced" patdown on minors if we opt out?

...*enhanced* being the important word there.

and

I just wanted to know if anyone on here has gone through with their families, how the pat-downs of children were handled.

A simple request for info.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

I absolutely would not subject a child to the new pat down; I would let them go through the scanner.

If one is completely opposed to either, then other transportation options are available.

 

[CPT Tripss]

...

Parents who are unwilling to go through the scanners and who are unwilling to let their family be subjected to an enhanced pat down can't fly. Parents who are unable or unwilling to explain to their kids the difference between being molested and being checked because "some bad people use (might use) kids to sneak bad stuff on to a plane" shouldn't fly.

A child yells BAD TOUCH. My reaction would be A BAD PARENT didn't properly prepare their child for security is much more likely then a pedophile getting a job with the TSA and molesting kids in front of witnesses.

...

My opinion wouldn't be any different if a poster provides a link to some questionable TSA actions.

Do you really expect most parents to think that government employees would be touching their kids in private areas just so the family can go on vacation or visit relatives?

 

[CPT Tripss]

I personally think if you have any worries about the scans, you should probably just drive. We drove from Michigan to Florida this summer and we had a great time! Getting there was half the fun. We took our time and it was a great experience!

Oh? You tell my neighbor's son who is stationed in Ft. Wainwright to drive his kids home so they can spend Christmas with their grandparents?

 

[NotUrsula]

...
I have shown a video example and quoted the TSA, that shows that your child will not be removed from your sight. If the OP is worried about her child being removed from her sight then she should print out the page from the TSA agent and calmly ask for a supervisor if an agent tries to remove your child from your sight.

And therein lies the rub, if you'll forgive the context. TSA's verbiage says "we will not separate you from your children", and most parents will naturally interpret that promise as "we will always allow you to remain in physical contact with your children" ... but that isn't what they mean, and that throws a lot of parents, because as you noted, what they really mean is that they will not remove your children from your line of sight.

This is from TSA's Traveling With Kids blog (http://blog.tsa.gov/2010/06/traveling-with-kids.html), and is the closest thing to an admission of that that I have been able to find from TSA:

We Will Not Separate You From Your Children (even if you want us to): If your child has to undergo secondary screening, you will go with your child. This may require you to be screened as well, but this works out, because the child gets to see it happen to you and that it’s no big deal. You can also request a private screening if you don’t want your child to be screened in public. We will not ask you to do anything that will separate you from your child or children.

The underlined part is mine, and if you read that, bells should be dinging that make you question, "If I'm holding the child while I'm screened, how can the child be watching the screening happen just to me?" And of course, the answer is that the child is watching from a few feet away.

I don't think that's a calamitous thing or an unreasonable thing, but if you have an easily frightened child, then it is something that it is good to be prepared for. TSA policy does categorically state that, for liability reasons, TSO's may not physically hold your child, so it is very important that you get it through your older child's head that he has to stay put until you say that it's OK to move, because if you are in the middle of being screened and your kid bolts, trying to immediately bolt after him may result in a terminal dump.

 

[DebbieB]

I can see this turning into a huge mess. I went through the scanner in August in Richmond, I was randomly pulled from the line and didn't even realize what it was until I was in it. It takes longer than the metal detector, which will result in slower lines. Plus if many people opt for the patdown, that is going to slow down lines.

What I have not been able to find out, is the scanner going to be in every line or is it going to be random? The last time I flew out of PIT, they only had 1 in the alternate security area.

 

[prncess674]

I don't think that's a calamitous thing or an unreasonable thing, but if you have an easily frightened child, then it is something that it is good to be prepared for. TSA policy does categorically state that, for liability reasons, TSO's may not physically hold your child, so it is very important that you get it through your older child's head that he has to stay put until you say that it's OK to move, because if you are in the middle of being screened and your kid bolts, trying to immediately bolt after him may result in a terminal dump.

Please state one instance where an airport was shutdown from a child running away from "Mommy" because of an over zealous TSA. If such were to occur it would should surely (at minimum) would make the blogosphere and would more than likely make the national news.

Seriously, the DIS needs to take a chill pill. If you choose to refuse the metal detector and the back scatter technology you WILL be subjected to a manual patdown. Sure there could be a rogue child molester who could potentially cop a 1/4 second feel on a 19 month but do you honestly believe that a true child molestor is going to make a living manhandling diaper clad kiddies? Child molesters are looking for the easiest and most accessible source of kids. A TSA screening area is surrounded by people and cameras is probably the least desirable area for a child molester.

 

[NotUrsula]

I didn't say that it DID result in a terminal dump, only that it COULD (which it definitely could, if the parent ended up far enough airside that the TSA agents lost track of both of them for a little while; that has happened before in instances where someone ran after a person who picked up the wrong carryon bag.) I don't know of any instances where it has happened up to now because of a parent disappearing when running after a child, but there is a first time for everything.

The irony of all this is that I fully agree with you, and I agree with Bumber, too (which may be something of a first for me. ) I don't think for a moment that the average TSO is getting any kind of jollies out of squeezing a diaper, and I'm sure that most of them truly hate having to do patdowns of any kind, and especially those involving kids in the party. I'm fine with the blasted backscatter x-rays, even, though I think that there are probably better solutions out there somewhere. (I routinely travel through Belfast, and honestly, their Security tends to be less stressful for me than in the US, even WITH the guns and the patrol dogs that are often present.) I personally wouldn't ever ask for a pat-down anywhere in the world.

The thing is, when I post here I try my best to answer the question that was asked. The OP wasn't interested in being talked out of requesting a pat-down, but I had a feeling that if she encountered a surprise out-of-arms-reach "separation" that she'd be very dismayed. Overreacting and possibly taking a defensive stance are things that you want to avoid when dealing with TSA, IMO, one of the best ways to avoid them is to inform yourself of the possibilities in advance, prepare your child for those possibilities in a non-alarmist way, and resolve to remain calm no matter what. So ... I described the possibilities, since Bumber had already pointed out the necessity of remaining calm.