anyone have experience w/ children and the new body scanners?

[livndisney]

There is no opting out of the metal detector, and submitting to the Nude-O-Scope is no guarantee you will not receive one of the new pat downs.

Here's a description of the new procedures from a TSA screener:

Here's the dealeo, if you alarm the WTMD for whatever reason, hip or knee replacement ie, and you are unable to divest enuff metal to clear with any further passes, you are now a recipient for a SPD.

We will pat down every inch of your bod and when we get to your mid section we will sliiiide a hand up your inner thigh til we "meet resistance" Exact wording.

Then, we swab our gloved hands and if they alarm, you then receive an "Alarm Resolution pat-down".

This is done by a Lead or a Sup. and is always done in a private screening area.
The only difference with this one is that when he/she gets to your "groin" area he/she is now going to turn his/her lil hands around and pass them over your "groin" area with the front of his/her hands 6 times. 3 across & 3 going down and then swab his/her hands again.

If they alarm again, well it gets a little gray after that.

Do they buy you dinner afterward? Just read a report of a woman on the radio being "fondled".

 

[magic mouse]

I will not go through these scanners nor do I want my child to go through them. The new pat down procedures are also invasive. We will be drivng to Disney from now on.......
http://www.infowars.com/tsa-fondles-women-and-children-refusing-airport-naked-body-scanners/

 

[disneyfan55]

I read a short article that various companies including Theme park representitves would be meeting with the TSA in regard to these scanners and the new pat down. I would hope WDW will be included. I don't know anything else except that I read there would be a meeting.

 

[ironz]

I read a short article that various companies including Theme park representitves would be meeting with the TSA in regard to these scanners and the new pat down. I would hope WDW will be included. I don't know anything else except that I read there would be a meeting.

I did, too...and I do hope representatives from Disney are there. There may be a trickle-down effect from people not liking the newer, more intrusive security.

So for all those who slammed the author of the "open letter to Disney" about the scanners in the other thread last week... that author WAS within his rights to submit his concerns to Disney. If people stop travelling, like after 9/11, there will be a big impact on the tourism industry.
Also, it will mean that the terrorists did win. They have succeeded in making so many a paranoid mess, willing to submit to anything.

 

[pilotwife_02]

I read a short article that various companies including Theme park representitves would be meeting with the TSA in regard to these scanners and the new pat down. I would hope WDW will be included. I don't know anything else except that I read there would be a meeting.

Can you point me to this article? I'd like to send it to DH (he's a union rep for his airline) and see if they can get involved (if they aren't already).

 

[ironz]

Can you point me to this article? I'd like to send it to DH (he's a union rep for his airline) and see if they can get involved (if they aren't already).

Here you go...from Reuters, in case the link doesn't post.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA55S20101112

And, thanks to your husband, for his work. I fly 6-10 flights a month, sometimes more (14 this month), and I appreciate that they keep us safe with the flying. (# of takeoffs and landings match, so all good!) Too bad they are getting hassled like the rest of us.

I do hope, though, that if they make it a little less hassle-free for flight crews, that they also consider the millions of people on the flights as well.

 

[disneyfan55]

Here you go...from Reuters, in case the link doesn't post.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA55S20101112

And, thanks to your husband, for his work. I fly 6-10 flights a month, sometimes more (14 this month), and I appreciate that they keep us safe with the flying. (# of takeoffs and landings match, so all good!) Too bad they are getting hassled like the rest of us.

I do hope, though, that if they make it a little less hassle-free for flight crews, that they also consider the millions of people on the flights as well.

Thanks!! Couldn't recall where I read it. I read this when I read the Reuters article on the pills that track you that Novartis will be trying to put on the market WITHOUT additional FDA approval TRACK TRACK and NO Privacy. It seems the gov't wants to track us for everything

 

[pilotwife_02]

Here you go...from Reuters, in case the link doesn't post.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA55S20101112

Thanks so much, I'm going to send it to him right now since he's at union meetings all week and next week.

I do hope, though, that if they make it a little less hassle-free for flight crews, that they also consider the millions of people on the flights as well.

I completely 100% agree with you!

 

[MinnieVanMom]

As a mom of a child with autism I can say that there is no way our son could stand there, follow directions and not have a total screaming meltdown that would attract the attention of every TSA agent.

Yet, we have tried hard to teach him not to let people touch his privates. SN children have a higher risk of being abused then NT children. So far we think we are going to have dad and DS do the pat down.

We can't drive because of the distance and again autism, so we must fly. This is trying to pick the best of two evils.

 

[ccgirl]

No sign saying scan was voluntary....I for some reason set off the metal detector even though I had no metal on me. So that sent me into the other scanner, and then the bottom of my feet, and then a partial patdown.

It was ridiculous, and the whole getting through security process is going to take hours if they try to make everyone go through this.

It will also be a nightmare and very frightening for young children.

Very different experience than I encountered in BOS. I faced the front, put my arms above my head for maybe 4 seconds then got the all clear. No feet testing or turning or anything like that.

You are in a big glass and steel cage and the cage whirls around you. You first have to stand one way, then another way, still, with your arms up. Very young children who are just walking aren't going to understand the instructions, or children with language delays. And some -- probably many- will just be frightened by the machines themselves, which aren't like metal detectors. They are much more imposing.

That is why we need to tell the children the instructions before we get in line. I have been talking to my children about our trip in 3 weeks. I have experienced the backscatter and my DH has experienced the "new pat down". He did not find it invasive at all. We have demonstrated both to our children so there will be no surprises. I'm just not seeing TSA as a sexual pervert.

The OP said both the scanners and enhanced pat down "screams illegal". That may be her opinion but it's not the law.

All available evidence suggests the scanners are safe. A letter from professors at UCSF suggesting further research and listing some hypothetical risks doesn't prove anything. It suggests UCSF would like a research grant so they can perform some studies.

Not everyone can fly. Some people have a fear of flying. Some people severe pain in their ears. A variety of things help most people, but not everyone. A parent who knows their kids aren't capable of behaving shouldn't by flying with their kids.

There may be a small number of people who can't/won't fly because they have issues with TSA screening. It's already been established that we don't have a constitutional right to fly without going through security.

Parents who are unwilling to go through the scanners and who are unwilling to let their family be subjected to an enhanced pat down can't fly. Parents who are unable or unwilling to explain to their kids the difference between being molested and being checked because "some bad people use (might use) kids to sneak bad stuff on to a plane" shouldn't fly.

A child yells BAD TOUCH. My reaction would be A BAD PARENT didn't properly prepare their child for security is much more likely then a pedophile getting a job with the TSA and molesting kids in front of witnesses.


edited to add--Parents don't want their kid scanned. Afraid health risks that aren't presently know or are being covered up (maybe tin hat/maybe just cautions). OK Parents don't want their kids subjected to enhanced pat down. OK. Pick one. Not screening kids isn't an option.

Posted to agree with Ciciwoowoo--Some parents need to drive or pick a different vacation destination.
My opinion wouldn't be any different if a poster provides a link to some questionable TSA actions.

I just wanted to say this post was very well written. As I have said, it is all about preparing your kids.

To the poster that stated 10 TSA employees have been accused of child porn. How many doctor's do you think have been accused/convicted? How many priests? I still take my children to the doctor's and church though. I have talked to my DD about inappropriate touching. I guess that is the sticking point here, some of us think this is not inappropriate touching. When my DH had the patdown last weekend it was maybe about 1 minute.

I really think this is about how you go into this. If you go into this all hell belt in causing a scene one is probably going to happen. I would think that would have more of a negative effect on a child than preparing them beforehand what might happen.

 

[disneyfan55]

As a mom of a child with autism I can say that there is no way our son could stand there, follow directions and not have a total screaming meltdown that would attract the attention of every TSA agent.

Yet, we have tried hard to teach him not to let people touch his privates. SN children have a higher risk of being abused then NT children. So far we think we are going to have dad and DS do the pat down.

We can't drive because of the distance and again autism, so we must fly. This is trying to pick the best of two evils.

I would surely drive! We do and live about 1100 miles or so. Make an adventure out of it for him! TOO much invasion of privacy for me, plus the xray exposure and pictures being viewed.

 

[N965VJ]

Michael Roberts, the ExpressJet pilot that pushed back against the TSA on October 15 2010, had recently mentioned that there have been two other pilots that have followed his lead. A few moments ago on the new site he started to disseminate information, FedUpFlyers.org, the story of the second pilot has be posted. Meet Ann Poe, a 777 pilot based in EWR:

On Thursday November 4th TSA prevented me from taking my commuter flight to EWR to work my BOM (Mumbai) trip. I was detained by TSA for two hours. I have an artificial hip.

I had the choice of either going through the body scanner and subjecting myself to radiation and violation of HIPPA laws (medical privacy laws) or being sexually molested. I have adjusted as much as I could since my pelvic area was violated by TSA in April 2010. That event affected my job performance, personal life and health for months.

(click through for the rest)

 

[sam_gordon]

Michael Roberts, the ExpressJet pilot that pushed back against the TSA on October 15 2010, had recently mentioned that there have been two other pilots that have followed his lead. A few moments ago on the new site he started to disseminate information, FedUpFlyers.org, the story of the second pilot has be posted. Meet Ann Poe, a 777 pilot based in EWR:

On Thursday November 4th TSA prevented me from taking my commuter flight to EWR to work my BOM (Mumbai) trip. I was detained by TSA for two hours. I have an artificial hip.

I had the choice of either going through the body scanner and subjecting myself to radiation and violation of HIPPA laws (medical privacy laws) or being sexually molested. I have adjusted as much as I could since my pelvic area was violated by TSA in April 2010. That event affected my job performance, personal life and health for months.

(click through for the rest)

Can I just say that's one horribly written bit of prose. Not to take away from her feelings, but I had a hard time following her post (I'm referring to the whole thing, not the excerpt you clipped).

What are your rights when going through a secondary screening? Are you allowed to videotape (set a camera on a table or something) the encounter? I'm not talking about a "hidden" camera, I'm talking about one out in the open.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Can I just say that's one horribly written bit of prose. Not to take away from her feelings, but I had a hard time following her post (I'm referring to the whole thing, not the excerpt you clipped).

What are your rights when going through a secondary screening? Are you allowed to videotape (set a camera on a table or something) the encounter? I'm not talking about a "hidden" camera, I'm talking about one out in the open.

That question has been asked a number of times on the TSA official board . . . it has not really been answered directly although there have been "official" responses. On non-official boards, posters putting themselves forward as TSA employees say the answer is "no."

The problem is that the officials always come back to saying that the proceedures are secret and they can't tell us citizens. I'm waiting for wikileaks to get ahold of the SOP and publish it.

 

[CPT Tripss]

When the "bad" guys quit using women and children to carry out their evil bombings.

And there is a big difference in a search than the way you described it. And yes I would tell my child that there are evil, sick people in the world trying to hurt us and because of it everyone needs to be checked to make sure they aren't carrying anything and that means they have to feel us all over but it is their job and has to be done. There is that, that hard to tell your child?

Whoa there! We have these despicable gropes going onbecause of two MEN . . . one tried to explode his shoes and the other tried to explode his underpants.

You really OK with telling your kids that everyone is a suspect and has to be felt up all over by people in uniforms? just

 

[Hannathy]

Whoa there! We have these despicable gropes going onbecause of two MEN . . . one tried to explode his shoes and the other tried to explode his underpants.

You really OK with telling your kids that everyone is a suspect and has to be felt up all over by people in uniforms? just

No the extra security started way before those two men and was elevated after 9-11.

And yes I am ok with telling my kids that because without profiling being allowed everyone is a suspect and yes that the security people need to do their jobs and check for hidden items. If they aren't going to do a thorough job then they may as well do none. so if they are going to check I want them to check thoroughly. It isn't going to scar my kids.

And when my DD was chosen for a random pat down when she was little it is exactly what she was told, that the security people had to feel to make sure she didn't have anything hidden, she had no problems with it at all.

 

[sam_gordon]

That question has been asked a number of times on the TSA official board . . . it has not really been answered directly although there have been "official" responses. On non-official boards, posters putting themselves forward as TSA employees say the answer is "no."

The problem is that the officials always come back to saying that the proceedures are secret and they can't tell us citizens. I'm waiting for wikileaks to get ahold of the SOP and publish it.

The problem is I can see the situation now..

TSA Agent (to me): "Sir, you need to go through the new scanner."
Me: "I'd like to opt out"
TSA: "OK, we'll do a full pat down"
Me: "That's fine. I just want to video tape it in case someone goes "too far""
TSA: "That's not allowed"
Me: "Then I refuse to be patted down"
TSA: "Then we can't let you into the secure area"

So I can either miss my flight and fight for my rights and possibly file a lawsuit, or (more likely) go through with the "enhanced pat down" and make my flight.

Someone is going to have to fight the battle and miss their flight in order for a lawsuit to be filed. But since you don't know whether you'll be selected (no airport is using the new scanners 100% right?), it's a gamble.

It's going to take people who regularly fly to stop flying to get the point across. People who travel just once a year (if that) refusing to fly aren't going to change anything.

 

[n2mm]

You have two choices, well, maybe three. You can go through the WBI (if that is the option given at security), you can opt out and do a pat down, or you can drive.

To the point. I say either be prepared to deal with the new TSA guidelines or drive or take the train. We flew out of MCO home last night and the machines were not up and running yet (at least at the gate I went out of -- 59-100). I will continue to fly because I won't spend 2 days of my vacation driving. I am not worried about the guidelines as they are what they are.

 

[CPT Tripss]

snip

It's going to take people who regularly fly to stop flying to get the point across. People who travel just once a year (if that) refusing to fly aren't going to change anything.

I agree with you that the regular flyers are the key. That's why I am pleased that flight crews are reacting as they are.

But, the infrequent flyers are also part of the solution too. If they also opt out of the scanners and protest the gropes, that will send a message.

If you are flying over Thanksgiving, particularly on the 24th. Opt out!

No the extra security started way before those two men and was elevated after 9-11.

SNIP

The shoes off to fly policy started after "the shoe bomber."

The liquids ban, then the baggie requirement started after the "London Plot" was uncovered. It's discovery hhad NOTHING to do with security measures at airports - it was an intelligence, police operation.

The WBIs and enhanced patdowns were started more recently and shortly after the Christmas underwear bomber. By the way, the undie bomber was a complete and total intelligence failure.

 

[jodifla]

There are two different types of machines, from what I could find out yesterday. The one using backscatter is what you describe.

The one I went through in Detroit uses another type of technology, millimeter wave technology. It has the whirling doors and the two sets of footprints. It would be way too many instructions for a small child, or a child with a language delay. I can also see it being a problem for some children with autism, despite all the preparations.

I also wonder even if the millimeter machine would be safe for a toddler. My sense of it was the doors actually whirled around me temporarily closing the opening. Not sure what would happen if a child tried to run out....I'm wondering if they could be crushed by the whirling door.