anyone have experience w/ children and the new body scanners?

[maxiesmom]

Oh? You tell my neighbor's son who is stationed in Ft. Wainwright to drive his kids home so they can spend Christmas with their grandparents?

Flying is a choice no matter what you have going on in your life. Your neighbor's son can choose to fly, or choose to skip Christamas. Maybe not great choices where they are concerened, but they are still choices.

 

[Hannathy]

The OP said both the scanners and enhanced pat down "screams illegal". That may be her opinion but it's not the law.

All available evidence suggests the scanners are safe. A letter from professors at UCSF suggesting further research and listing some hypothetical risks doesn't prove anything. It suggests UCSF would like a research grant so they can perform some studies.

Not everyone can fly. Some people have a fear of flying. Some people severe pain in their ears. A variety of things help most people, but not everyone. A parent who knows their kids aren't capable of behaving shouldn't by flying with their kids.

There may be a small number of people who can't/won't fly because they have issues with TSA screening. It's already been established that we don't have a constitutional right to fly without going through security.

Parents who are unwilling to go through the scanners and who are unwilling to let their family be subjected to an enhanced pat down can't fly. Parents who are unable or unwilling to explain to their kids the difference between being molested and being checked because "some bad people use (might use) kids to sneak bad stuff on to a plane" shouldn't fly.

A child yells BAD TOUCH. My reaction would be A BAD PARENT didn't properly prepare their child for security is much more likely then a pedophile getting a job with the TSA and molesting kids in front of witnesses.


edited to add--Parents don't want their kid scanned. Afraid health risks that aren't presently know or are being covered up (maybe tin hat/maybe just cautions). OK Parents don't want their kids subjected to enhanced pat down. OK. Pick one. Not screening kids isn't an option.

Posted to agree with Ciciwoowoo--Some parents need to drive or pick a different vacation destination.
My opinion wouldn't be any different if a poster provides a link to some questionable TSA actions.

Very, very good post!! And I agree. You can't have it both ways.



I do get a laugh out of the no scanning for us too much radiation and then they get on a plane, but heck actually understanding science and math does seem to be too much for most of the population.

 

[CPT Tripss]

snip

Sure there could be a rogue child molester who could potentially cop a 1/4 second feel on a 19 month but do you honestly believe that a true child molestor is going to make a living manhandling diaper clad kiddies? Child molesters are looking for the easiest and most accessible source of kids. A TSA screening area is surrounded by people and cameras is probably the least desirable area for a child molester.

But at least 10 TSA employees have been arrested on child molestation/kiddie porn charges. And yes, before you ask, it has been for off duty behaviior

Flying is a choice no matter what you have going on in your life. Your neighbor's son can choose to fly, or choose to skip Christamas. Maybe not great choices where they are concerened, but they are still choices.

I'm sure they will appreciate your empathy.

 

[Lewisc]

But at least 10 TSA employees have been arrested on child molestation/kiddie porn charges. And yes, before you ask, it has been for off duty behaviior

Arrested, not convicted. Off duty behavior. My understanding is "kiddie porn" includes pictures of teenagers under the age 18. I'm not saying looking at naked pictures of 16 or 17 year old is OK. However I don't think that behavior suggests a person who would molest a child.

Your point has nothing to do with a child being molested by a TSA employee, in front of witnesses.

Those few people who don't like the scanner or enhanced pat downs can't fly. Just like those few people who have a very bad fear of flying can't fly. Just like a few people who get severe ear pain, which doesn't respond to techniques that work for most passengers, can't fly.

 

[maxiesmom]

But at least 10 TSA employees have been arrested on child molestation/kiddie porn charges. And yes, before you ask, it has been for off duty behaviior



I'm sure they will appreciate your empathy.

Will empathy get them on the plane without being screened?

Here on the transportation board we usually try to deal with the facts, and not dwell on what we think "should" happen. How would it do anyone any good to post that the TSA agents are a bunch of child molesters just waiting for a victim to come along? Would that change the fact that you either need to be screened or patted down in order to fly? How does getting all upset about it help anything?

The only thing any of us can do is make an informed choice. Ranting and raving at the choices you have gets you nowhere.

 

[jodifla]

I got pulled into one of the new scanners on one part of my flight this weekend. I think there are a couple of problems with them:


1) The are SLOW!!!!!!! First you have to stand one way with your hands over your head, then change positions. Then they had to be radioed that I was clear, THEN they checked the bottom of my feet. Too about 20 times longer than just walking through a metal detector. (Maybe this is a testing phase and will be shorter down the line.)

2) I think very young toddlers are not going to be able to understand the instructions....stand here, put your arms up, etc. I imagine many of them will be quite frightened by these machines as well. And that doesn't even include all the children with disabilities out there who won't have the language skills to follow along.

 

[N965VJ]

If you choose to refuse the metal detector and the back scatter technology you WILL be subjected to a manual patdown.

There is no opting out of the metal detector, and submitting to the Nude-O-Scope is no guarantee you will not receive one of the new pat downs.

Here's a description of the new procedures from a TSA screener:

Here's the dealeo, if you alarm the WTMD for whatever reason, hip or knee replacement ie, and you are unable to divest enuff metal to clear with any further passes, you are now a recipient for a SPD.

We will pat down every inch of your bod and when we get to your mid section we will sliiiide a hand up your inner thigh til we "meet resistance" Exact wording.

Then, we swab our gloved hands and if they alarm, you then receive an "Alarm Resolution pat-down".

This is done by a Lead or a Sup. and is always done in a private screening area.
The only difference with this one is that when he/she gets to your "groin" area he/she is now going to turn his/her lil hands around and pass them over your "groin" area with the front of his/her hands 6 times. 3 across & 3 going down and then swab his/her hands again.

If they alarm again, well it gets a little gray after that.

 

[prncess674]

There is no opting out of the metal detector, and submitting to the Nude-O-Scope is no guarantee you will not receive one of the new pat downs.

Here's a description of the new procedures from a TSA screener:

Here's the dealeo, if you alarm the WTMD for whatever reason, hip or knee replacement ie, and you are unable to divest enuff metal to clear with any further passes, you are now a recipient for a SPD.

We will pat down every inch of your bod and when we get to your mid section we will sliiiide a hand up your inner thigh til we "meet resistance" Exact wording.

Then, we swab our gloved hands and if they alarm, you then receive an "Alarm Resolution pat-down".

This is done by a Lead or a Sup. and is always done in a private screening area.
The only difference with this one is that when he/she gets to your "groin" area he/she is now going to turn his/her lil hands around and pass them over your "groin" area with the front of his/her hands 6 times. 3 across & 3 going down and then swab his/her hands again.

If they alarm again, well it gets a little gray after that.

The words of one TSA agent who uses "dealeo" is not exactly what I would call an official description of the policy.

 

[N965VJ]

The words of one TSA agent who uses "dealeo" is not exactly what I would call an official description of the policy.

I’ve posted that description several times on FlyerTalk, and the TSA employees have not challenged that description of the procedure, although they will always jump on anything they perceive as inaccurate. As for using words not found in the dictionary, a high school diploma is optional for TSA employment.

 

[CPT Tripss]

The words of one TSA agent who uses "dealeo" is not exactly what I would call an official description of the policy.

Princess . . . just so you know, there are a lot of us that would love to have TSA post the official process on their website so we would know whether any given screening conforms to ot violates the official policy. Many of us have been told, "well we do it differently here in ___," or words to that effect, when we complain that the screener did not follow protocol.

But TSA trots out the "it's sensitive security information" line and refuses to explain. Pretty lame since once they do something to you, or me, we are free to describe exactly what happened.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I got pulled into one of the new scanners on one part of my flight this weekend. I think there are a couple of problems with them:


1) The are SLOW!!!!!!! First you have to stand one way with your hands over your head, then change positions. Then they had to be radioed that I was clear, THEN they checked the bottom of my feet. Too about 20 times longer than just walking through a metal detector. (Maybe this is a testing phase and will be shorter down the line.)

2) I think very young toddlers are not going to be able to understand the instructions....stand here, put your arms up, etc. I imagine many of them will be quite frightened by these machines as well. And that doesn't even include all the children with disabilities out there who won't have the language skills to follow along.

The new scan is, by it's nature a slower process that the WTMD. Any increase in speed will be marginal at best unless they figure out a way to take the human element out of it.

Were there signs informing you that the scan was voluntary? Did you also get a pat down? Did you observe whether others getting the WBI scan were also patted down?

 

[jodifla]

The new scan is, by it's nature a slower process that the WTMD. Any increase in speed will be marginal at best unless they figure out a way to take the human element out of it.

Were there signs informing you that the scan was voluntary? Did you also get a pat down? Did you observe whether others getting the WBI scan were also patted down?

No sign saying scan was voluntary....I for some reason set off the metal detector even though I had no metal on me. So that sent me into the other scanner, and then the bottom of my feet, and then a partial patdown.

It was ridiculous, and the whole getting through security process is going to take hours if they try to make everyone go through this.

It will also be a nightmare and very frightening for young children.

 

[CPT Tripss]

No sign saying scan was voluntary....I for some reason set off the metal detector even though I had no metal on me. So that sent me into the other scanner, and then the bottom of my feet, and then a partial patdown.

It was ridiculous, and the whole getting through security process is going to take hours if they try to make everyone go through this.

It will also be a nightmare and very frightening for young children.

OK (inserting tongue in cheek) ... but it's for all of our safety . . . and you don't have to fly ... (removing tongue from cheek.

 

[ScarlettDarling]

If you are a woman and have children, please watch this!! This lady says what she went through at the airport when she opted out of the scanner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EqV2Rmkqaw

 

[maxiesmom]

No sign saying scan was voluntary....I for some reason set off the metal detector even though I had no metal on me. So that sent me into the other scanner, and then the bottom of my feet, and then a partial patdown.

It was ridiculous, and the whole getting through security process is going to take hours if they try to make everyone go through this.

It will also be a nightmare and very frightening for young children.

So far it seems the added process is random, and not being done to everyone. So hopefully the lines at security will not become huge.

I'm not seeing what is inherently so scary about standing still and raising your arms up. I think kids pick up on the vibes their parents send out, and the more calm and matter of fact the parents are, the better the child will deal with the scan. If they are chosen for it.

I've seen children scared and having meltdowns at the metal detectors. But that doesn't mean I think they should not use them. Try and prepare you child as best you can, and have in your own mind how you will deal with it if they do become frightened. That is the best that anyone can do.

 

[maxiesmom]

If you are a woman and have children, please watch this!! This lady says what she went through at the airport when she opted out of the scanner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EqV2Rmkqaw

Oh yeah, no bias there at all! This guy calls them Naked Scanners right off of the bat? Do you actually think this is unbiased reporting?

 

[prncess674]

http://www.optoutday.com/

Just be aware if you are traveling on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving of the optout effect on travel.

 

[ScarlettDarling]

Oh yeah, no bias there at all! This guy calls them Naked Scanners right off of the bat? Do you actually think this is unbiased reporting?

I think that's the perfect name for them.

 

[goofy4tink]

If you are a woman and have children, please watch this!! This lady says what she went through at the airport when she opted out of the scanner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EqV2Rmkqaw

Okay...do I think that what is happening in airport security is okay? No, not a bit. But that guy is doing nothing positive to forward any change. He is sensationalizing the whole issue. His choice of phrase is outrageous...he is going to turn the more conservative away from his argument.

I really wish that security wasn't the way it is. As of yet, I haven't been subjected to the more invasive patdowns. And those that say it should be considered to be the same act as a stranger coming up to you and touching your crotch are absolutely right. The TSA can't have it both ways. Choose a method and that's it. So now we get to choose between radiation (which I really don't think is all that extensive) and up close and personal photos or incredibly invasive personal patdowns??? Nope..shouldn't be this way.

Now...as soon as they start screening every single piece of cargo, on every single plane, then I will willingly go along with their security measures. But, I truly believe there is more of a threat in that cargo than any passenger.

 

[jodifla]

So far it seems the added process is random, and not being done to everyone. So hopefully the lines at security will not become huge.

I'm not seeing what is inherently so scary about standing still and raising your arms up. I think kids pick up on the vibes their parents send out, and the more calm and matter of fact the parents are, the better the child will deal with the scan. If they are chosen for it.

I've seen children scared and having meltdowns at the metal detectors. But that doesn't mean I think they should not use them. Try and prepare you child as best you can, and have in your own mind how you will deal with it if they do become frightened. That is the best that anyone can do.

You are in a big glass and steel cage and the cage whirls around you. You first have to stand one way, then another way, still, with your arms up. Very young children who are just walking aren't going to understand the instructions, or children with language delays. And some -- probably many- will just be frightened by the machines themselves, which aren't like metal detectors. They are much more imposing.