Anyone else upset about gov't response

[drgnfly30]

But on the ground, with different agencies handling different parts of the effort, with the realities of working in a severly flooded NO, with police and city radios that no longer work, with cell phones out, with TV and radio off the air... and nobody with any power to receive the signals anyway, then things aren't necessarily work the way our minds tell us they should.

UGGG!! there was mass chaos, , non-working police & emergency radios, and miscommunication between agencies (Federal, State & local levels) during 9/11, so I ask....Wasn't that the reason for Homeland Security & why is it such an apparent failure (imo)???
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=901378

 

[Free4Life11]

UGGG!! there was mass chaos, , non-working police & emergency radios, and miscommunication between agencies (Federal, State & local levels) during 9/11, so I ask....Wasn't that the reason for Homeland Security & why is it such an apparent failure (imo)???

You took the words out of my mouth.

 

[wuv tigger]

What a great post!!!!!!!!!!

I thought you might appreciate the point of view of someone who is actually involved in the hurricane situation. We live in southwestern Alabama. We have had an incredible amount of damage here, too, although not on the massive scale you're seeing on television.

Every year, on June 1st or thereabouts, we get the checklist of things to get together for hurricane season. It's in the paper, it's on TV. Every year, over and over, and over. It's not like these things just sneak up on us. We're reminded EVERY Year what to do, how to prepare. Plywood, masking tape, etc. Bottled water, batteries, flashlights, medicine, non perishable food, diapers, formula, etc . The list goes on and on. When it looks like a hurricane is heading this way, we're reminded again. We go out and get all this stuff and hope for the best. Sometimes we need it, more often not. We have been affected by Ivan, Arlene, Cindy, Dennis, and Katrina just since last September. I mean right here in Alabama, not florida and not mississippi, although they were also hit hard, especially the florida panhandle. Each time, we gather the supplies, board up the windows, and in some cases, we evacuate. Not everyone can afford to do that. Thousands of people go to shelters, and they are told to bring food, water, diapers, formula, medicine, and enough supplies for each person in their group to last at least 5 days.

After the storm passes, the cleanup begins. Please, please understand that it's not possible to reach people, sometimes for days. And I mean under "normal" post hurricane conditions. There are trees on houses, across driveways, we get blocked in our homes, live power lines cross roads, houses, cars. There are no phones, no power, no supplies, no gasoline. Think about it. An average hurricane is devastating enough. What has just happened is so overwhelming that you cannot begin to fathom it as you sit and watch it on your television.

Relief efforts are coming.In some cases they are already on the ground. But you have to understand that they cannot get to us. It is not humanly possible. It's not physically possible. We are eating out of cans--the supplies we were TOLD to stock up on, which we did. We are using our coleman stoves and our grills or in some cases, eating dry cereal out of the box. New orleans has been warned for 40 years what would happen if a cat 4 or 5 hurricane hit. No one could prepare for a disaster on this scale. We have spent days clearing debris from our homes and yards, off our houses. It is a long, slow, drawn out process even in the best of circumstances. But People have to take a little responsibility for sustaining themselves for the first few days.

 

[Geoff_M]

UGGG!! there was mass chaos, , non-working police & emergency radios, and miscommunication between agencies (Federal, State & local levels) during 9/11, so I ask....Wasn't that the reason for Homeland Security & why is it such an apparent failure (imo)???

Without a doubt, there have been problems... but this isn't a 9/11, this isn't an Andrew, this is even way past a Camille. This is unprecedented. As I stated before, you can plan all you want, but until it's tested in the field under real conditions, you don't know how and if it'll work. "Some" people are having problems getting food/water, not all. And there's work being done to remedy the situation. This doesn't mean the problems aren't serious. That doesn't mean there could have been things done to prevent the problems... But to call the LA/MS a "complete failure" is hyperpole, dispite what a mayor under a lot of stress may say.

I also think the mayor and his EOC manager's recollections about the tsunami relief are a little clouded. Things weren't mopped up there in a few days. Supplies quickly poured into staging areas, but that's happened here too. There were also plenty of heartbreaking stories about supplies taking days or weeks to reach villiages of people after the tsunami. This isn't to say that we shouldn't be able to do better here, but I don't think it's fair to say the Katrina effort is worse or a "failure" compared to the tsunami effort.

 

[angelina]

Wuv Tigger, We're fortunate here in Mobile that we have had no loss of life, and we are slowly picking up the pieces. What is happening is New Orleans is just ungodly. But things are being done to help people, it just takes so much time. We've had a lot of recent experience in the past40 years, and for the most part, when a hurricane enters the Gulf, we take notice. It's always the poor and elderly who take the brunt of it when something like this happens. My grandmother is 96 years old. I know she wouldn't survive a storm without family support. My mother is 70, and she needs help, too.
I wish people understood just how widespread the devastation is, and that resources are being spread over a 4 state area. This didn't just happen to new Orleans. I wish people could see the Good that comes out of a situation like this. We help each other. When the power goes out, and our food begins to thaw, we start cooking. We share what we have. We invite friends and neighbors over. Yesterday, one of our friends took several families' gas cans and went off in search of gasoline. He had to go to several stations up I-65, but he brought back enough to run generators for a few more days. I don't understand the rioting and looting. I don't mean people taking food, because a lot of that will be junked when the grocery stores rebuild. Canned goods and other non perishables, water and food are absolute necessities. But breaking into stores and stealing clothes and TV's and jewelry just because it's there for the taking is another. The shooting and lawlessness is unnecessary. President Bush is on his way to MObile now to tour the area just like he did in September when Ivan hit here. I just don't know if there IS any way to avoid the situation or even prepare for such a disaster. No way in any of our imaginations could we forsee or prepare for something like this. I remember Camille. I was six when it happened. Complete and total devastation in Biloxi. Who could imagine ANYTHING could be worse than that? If someone had said that a hurricane would hit near New Orleans, and the city would be damaged, and the levees would break, the city would flood, it woul d be evacuated, there would be no hospitals, food, supplies, no hospitals, we would have said, "yeah, right." The scope of this is so huge. There's just no possible way to prepare for a disaster of this magnitude.

Sorry to ramble.

 

[angelina]

Geoff M, you make a lot of sense.

 

[LauraR]

Posted by Free4Life:

Somehow the Salvation Army got their truck into the city...not sure why others can't. The busses that have come in should have been loaded to the brim with water

.

Good point. I'm beginning to think the people on this board could write a better disaster management plan than FEMA. The response has been lame. 9/11 was unprecedented, too, and the federal government managed to mobilize immediately.

 

[Geoff_M]

It's always the poor and elderly who take the brunt of it when something like this happens.

I think this is one of the big areas that needs to be addressed after this is over. NO, and I assume this is the case for other large cities too, clearly had no evacuation plan for people without their own transportation or to move the elderly or sick unless they were in nursing homes or hospitals. I think 75% of the problems and heartbeaking situations could have been avoided if a plan had been in place before Katrina. But back to the "logistics" bugaboo... How would a city get 100's or a thousand buses in 24 hours notice (at first it was thought the storm would go towards FL's panhandle) to provide transport? How would you know where the home bound sick and eldery are that needed transportation?

9/11 was unprecedented, too, and the federal government managed to mobilize immediately.

And in the case of 9/11 the main affected area was limited to a few city blocks in NYC, the Pentagon, and a field in PA. The "mobilzation" for Katrina started BEFORE the storm reached the coastline. The problems weren't "mobilization". The coastal area was declared a federal disaster area a couple days before landfall so that the response could be started.

I'm beginning to think the people on this board could write a better disaster management plan than FEMA.

Funny, yesterday I was thinking that if FEMA could only tap the relief experts on this board then their problems would disappear.

I wish people understood just how widespread the devastation is, and that resources are being spread over a 4 state area. This didn't just happen to new Orleans. I wish people could see the Good that comes out of a situation like this.

It's understandble, but in the media "if it bleeds, it leads". You'll find this interesting but I heard on NPR this morning that the hurricane "victims aren't getting any help". That was their news headline. They didn't say "some", they give the impression that it's "most" or "all". How many people heard the news yesterday that the NO airport was successfully reopened and that relief flights will commence 24/7? Who heard that the levee repairs are going better than first expected? The bad stuff is bad, and the heartbreaking stuff is heartbreaking... but people and the media are projecting that across the whole hurricane landscape.

 

[ophie]

Yup... the situation is that even though there is a plan... it simply can't be put into action everywhere at the same time. We weren't as ready as we should be. That, of course, will be looked at later and DHS & FEMA will require citites to take a new look at their disaster plans.

If anyone would like to know. Here's the full list of the government response. My dad is on the FEMA listserv and he got an 8/31 email full of details.

Highlights of the federal response as of 11 a.m. include:

FEMA

* FEMA deployed 39 Disaster Medical Assistance Teams from all across the U.S. to staging areas in Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, and Louisiana and is now moving them into impacted areas.

* Eighteen Urban Search and Rescue task forces and two Incident Support Teams have been deployed and prepositioned in Shreveport, La., and Jackson, Miss., including teams from Florida, Indiana, Maryland, Missouri, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia. An additional eight swift water rescue teams have been deployed.

* FEMA is moving supplies and equipment into the hardest hit areas as quickly as possible, especially water, ice, meals, medical supplies, generators, tents, and tarps. There are currently over 1,700 trucks which have been mobilized to move these supplies into position.​

Coast Guard

* The U.S. Coast Guard (USCG) worked through the night and has rescued or assisted more than 1,250 people.

* Secretary Chertoff has authorized the recall to active duty of 550 Coast Guard Reservists to support response and recovery activities.

* USCG ships, boats, and aircraft continue to support FEMA and state and local authorities with rescue and recovery efforts. USCG has also activated three national strike teams to help in removal of hazardous materials; ships and boats continue to support the national relief efforts.​

National Guard

* The National Guard of the four most heavily impacted states are providing support to civil authorities. Guard units are also providing generators, medical assistance and shelters. Currently, more than 31,500 members from Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida are engaged and providing assistance.

* The National Guard is augmenting civilian law enforcement capacity, not acting in lieu of it.​

Department of Defense

As directed by the Secretary of Defense and in accordance with the National Response Plan, U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM) is supporting the FEMA disaster relief efforts. NORTHCOM, the lead Department of Defense (DOD) organization for Hurricane Katrina response, is moving and/or mobilizing the following resources to support FEMA's response and recovery efforts:

* NORTHCOM established Joint Task Force (JTF) Katrina to act as the military's on-scene command in support of FEMA. Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, commander of the First Army in Fort Gillem, Ga., is the JTF-Commander. JTF Katrina will be based out of Camp Shelby, Miss.

* U.S. Transportation Command is flying eight swift water rescue teams from California to Lafayette, La. These teams will provide approximately 14 highly trained personnel with vehicles and small rigid-hulled boats capable of rescuing stranded citizens from flooded areas.

* USS Bataan sailed to the waters off Louisiana to provide support. Currently, four helicopters from the Bataan are flying medical evacuation and search and rescue missions in Louisiana. Bataan's hospital may also be used for medical support.

* The Iwo Jima Amphibious Readiness Group (ARG) is preparing to sail from Norfolk, VA loaded with disaster response equipment. The ARG consists of four amphibious ships, and will be off the coast of Louisiana in the next five days.

* The hospital ship USNS Comfort is departing Baltimore to bring medical assistance capabilities to the Gulf region, and should arrive in seven days.​

Department of Health and Human Services

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is making available all of their capabilities to help state and local officials provide care and assistance to the victims of this storm. HHS efforts include:

*The first 250 mobile hospital beds and associated equipment have arrived at the Louisiana State University (LSU) facility in Baton Rouge. Thirty eight public health service officers are at the facility and along with disaster medical assistance teams and State health care professionals. As of this morning, 50 of the beds are operational.

* HHS has placed 415 Public Health Service officers on stand-by for deployment to support medical response in the affected states.

* The HHS Secretary's Operations Center mobile command post is en route to Baton Rouge and should arrive today. This bus provides office space along with computer and communications support for the HHS Secretary's Emergency Response Team (SERT).

* HHS is using the National Disaster Medical System (NDMS) to identify available hospital beds, and working with DOD, Veteran's Administration, and others to move patients to these facilities. At last count, there were 2,600 beds available in a 12 state area around the affected area. Nationwide, the NDMS has identified 40,000 available beds in participating hospitals.

* Louisiana state officials have received 27 pallets of requested medical supplies from the Strategic National Stockpile. These pallets include basic first aid material (such as bandages, pads, ice packs, etc), blankets and patient clothing, suture kits, sterile gloves, stethoscopes, blood pressure measuring kits, and portable oxygen tanks. This equipment is being used to set up the mobile hospital at LSU in Baton Rouge.

* Centers for Disease Control experts are now working with Louisiana state officials to implement a mosquito abatement program.​

Department of Transportation

The Department of Transportation (DOT) dispatched a team of 66
transportation experts to support state and local officials in the damage assessment of highways, railroads, airports, transit systems, ports, and pipelines. DOT is also supporting detour planning and critical transportation system repairs.

There are a number of key highways and important road bridges that have sustained significant damage, including the I-10 bridges between New Orleans and Slidell, La. I-10 is closed throughout much of Louisiana and all of Mississippi, while it is limited to one lane in each direction and around Mobile due to pump failure in one of the tunnels in Mobile. Other major highways, such as US 90, 98, and 49 in the affected areas are closed. I-59 is closed starting 20 miles south of Meridian to points further south.
​

Department of Agriculture

* The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is sending experienced emergency response personnel. To date, the Forest Service has assigned 10 management and logistical teams and seven crews of 20 people each to the affected areas and host communities. These resources are intended to assist in setting up logistics staging areas, the distribution of food products, and debris removal.

* USDA's Food and Nutrition Service (FNS) is providing food at shelters and mass feeding sites, issuing emergency food stamps, infant formula, and food packages to households in need.

* USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service is providing information pertaining to keeping food safe. Consumers can call the toll-free USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline 24 hours a day at 1-888-MPHotline (1-888-674-6854); for the hearing-impaired TTY 1-800-256-7072.​

Department of Labor

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) continues to coordinate with the interagency community in providing support as outlined in the National Response Plan.

* Region VI has deployed its eight members Emergency Response Team to Baton Rouge to assess the situation and begin to provide technical assistance to recovery workers and utility employers engaged in power restoration. In addition, OSHA is contacting major power companies to the areas affected to provide safety briefings to employees at power restoration staging areas in affected communities.

* OSHA is releasing public service announcements to inform workers about hazards related to restoration and cleanup.​

Department of Treasury

The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) announced special relief for
taxpayers in the Presidential Disaster Areas struck by the hurricane. These taxpayers generally will have until October 31 to file tax returns and submit tax payments. The IRS will stop interest and any late filing or late payment penalties that would otherwise apply. This relief includes the September 15 due date for estimated taxes and for calendar-year corporate returns with automatic extensions.​

Small Business Administration

The Small Business Administration (SBA) will position loan officers in federal and state disaster recovery centers. SBA is also prepared to provide help in other states in the eastern half of the country where the storm may also lead to disaster area declarations.​

American Red Cross

The American Red Cross is providing a safe haven for nearly 46,000 evacuees in more than 230 Red Cross shelters, from the panhandle of Florida, across Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, and Texas. The Red Cross is launching the largest mobilization of resources for a single natural disaster involving thousands of trained disaster relief workers, tons of supplies, and support. The American Red Cross is asking everyone in affected areas to remain safely in shelters until local officials have deemed it safe to leave.​

 

[bcvillastwo]

Of course we are upset. Anyone with an ounce of compassion should be upset. But, that doesn't mean that its time to point fingers and blame anyone for anything. I for one don't really know what the offiicals at all levels of government face in trying to deal with this situation. We see lots of images on TV but that doesn't mean we "know" what is going on. Instead I suspect that the images we are seeing are just presenting one view of the situation.

Earlier someone posted,

There was no real advance plan of what to do in case of such a catastrophe. Odds were that this would one day occur, and it didn't take a genius to know what the results would be in a city below sea level. The levees were only built to endure a level 3 storm, there was no kind of emergency evacuation plan, etc.

All of this is true and more. I suspect that there are so many reasons that for what we are seeing that it will take a long long time to unravel. But now is not the time for sniping.

It's fine to ask questions but for now I think that sniping does no good at all.

 

[lizanne]

Funny, yesterday I was thinking that if FEMA could only tap the relief experts on this board then their problems would disappear.

Do I detect a bit of sarcasim!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I feel better about the govt response after reading some of the comments on this thread, particularly the ones by Angelina. But one thing I have learned from this situation is that my perception and the reality of what to expect in a disaster are two different things.

 

[Aidensmom]

I think this is one of the big areas that needs to be addressed after this is over. NO, and I assume this is the case for other large cities too, clearly had no evacuation plan for people without their own transportation or to move the elderly or sick unless they were in nursing homes or hospitals. I think 75% of the problems and heartbeaking situations could have been avoided if a plan had been in place before Katrina.

I completely agree with this, and hope that all governments in areas prone to such disasters learn from this and make some kind of plan, even if it is just providing transportation for those who do not have their own to a shelter or safer area.

 

[MoniqueU]

I heard with my own two ears that CNN investigated the fact that our national guard and troops were over in Iraq and the type of troops that are deployed over there make the effect on this relief negligible. I am tired of hearing people refer to Iraq if one has nothing to do with another. I could care less about the war in Iraq personally, as in if we are there or not wouldn't make a huge difference to me. I am just tired of hearing that arguement. It is what it is but apparently has no affect.

The rest of the stuff deeply bothers me. Fema screwing up the evacuations. The Mayor flying the coop, the Governor waiting days to ask for 40,000 troops, why we aren't doing air drops of food and aid, the poor patients in hospitals we cant evacuate, the hungry babyies, the disabled and those dying like trash on the side of the road. I can't believe this is happening in the year 2005 in my country.

 

[angelina]

I hear now that individuals in pickup trucks are beginning to help the people get out of New orleans, but where can they take them? The AstroDome is full. The only other states near LA are MS, AL, and FL. Mississippi is destroyed, so that's out. South Alabama, too. We use schools for shelters, and 25% of them suffered catastrophic damage. Our downtown was flooded, with 15-20 feet of water,and that's where our convention center and civic center are.

 

[angelina]

MoniqueU, all I can say is that you're very misinformed about the national guard issue. The troops are all over the place. They are overseeing relief efforts everywhere. They are distributing water, MRE's, tarps for roofs,they are handing out water at the Superdome and Convention Center. The footage has been on TV. If every member of the national guard and army were dispatched to the gulf coast over the entire 4 state area, it would not be enough. There is no way to make this better. That's the reality of this situation. THIS ENCOMPASSES FOUR STATES!!! MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

 

[Geoff_M]

Seriously, I feel better about the govt response after reading some of the comments on this thread, particularly the ones by Angelina. But one thing I have learned from this situation is that my perception and the reality of what to expect in a disaster are two different things.

I'm glad this had an impact on you. However, I'm saying "I quit". I see my efforts to make people understand that this issue isn't as simple as they think has mainly led to mockery on other threads. Emotion is now ruling things here. Perception is reality. If a singer can get to some place by boat, then to them there should be no crisis. Criticism is easy to hurl, particularly when no solutions are offered except generalities. Some have no doubt assigned my feelings to my politics, but I've also deflected criticism here of elected officials from the other side of the fence on this issue. The same isn't true of some of those stoking the emotions here.

 

[MoniqueU]

Angelina reread what I said. CNN said the fact that our troops being over in National Guard being over in Iraq made the effect on this relief effort negiligble. As in we still get the same amount of help NOW as we would if they wern't over in Iraq. The troops deployed to Iraq are heavy infantry troops I believe they said and not the type they would use to deploy to help with this disaster. I can clearly see that help is now getting to New Orleans.

 

[angelina]

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying.

 

[DoeWDW]

Geoff M, I for one do appreciate your point of view. This is not an easy situation and there are no prior catastrophes to compare it to.

The sad fact is that we all will learn a lot from this tragedy. Yes, I said tragedy, not government failure, not lack of compassion, not anything else, but a TRAGEDY.

Under the circumstances I think the relief effort has helped many many people. Yes, there are some who are not getting as much help as we'd like. Yes, I sure wish I could wave a magic wand and make it all better for everyone. However, I think the relief effort has been amazing for the vast majority of people affected.

 

[C.Ann]

I have learned that the leadership of this country is incapable of handling a major disaster of this magnitude.. I have learned that their response is inadequate and extremely slow..

I have learned that in the face of another disaster of this magnitude people should NOT rely on the government to come to their aid..

I have learned that our government can save people in other countries - spare no expense - rush to their aid - but they fail when it comes to their own..

I have learned that I don't live in the kind of country that I thought I did..