Anyone else miss the challenge of the old fast passes?

The dining fee was a turnoff? Were you forced to get a dining plan? Why don't you feel welcome?
Because we can't choose our schedule based on how we feel each day.

If you are young and healthy, it is no big deal to be locked into plans made six months in advance. When your health is less perfect, you have good days and bad days. WDW no longer works on a play-each-day-as-you-feel basis.

Under the old system, if we had to dine closer to home, staff said, "We can help you." Now we risk a $100+ fee! We can maybe beg for mercy.

Same thing with FP. If we change our plans- same day- we will likely be excluded from Soarin or P Pan. At least as far as FP goes.

Now, they've even taken away no-expire. If you don't use your full ticket, kiss the unused days goodbye. More than once, we added days+no expire to partly used tickets. Returning with no expire tickets was even better.
 
Nah. It is more likely that someone will say that they used a "loophole" to get those extra FPs, without really explaining what that loophole is. ;)

I think people are very touchy about the use of the word "loophole" and I think it is obvious the meaning in this context. It is the use of the system in a unintended way. The example of getting a fast pass waiting for the return time and going on a ride and then pulling another one is not..I should say not what I am talking about. That is what the system is intended. The fact that someone did that with precision is great...no problem.

I am saying anyone who is ever in possession of more that 2 sets of fast passes with intent to use those passes is exploiting a loophole. That sounds like a crime LOL. The typical non savvy Disney patron would go get a fast pass...go on some other rides and then return at the time of the pass and ride that ride and then perhaps go and get another one and wait and ride and so on.

I have read some of the ways people optimized the number of passes and is evident that people have freely admit that they would have multiple sets of passes. I have learned some ways that people used to game the system like in the below example I found.

"Moving toward the truly disingenuous, we've got the "FastPass Switcheroo." To do this, simply get your FastPass like normal for Splash Mountain. You notice that the return time is two hours away, in the afternoon. Wait two hours, then return here and get another set of FP tickets, this time for later in the evening. But at this moment, your first set of FP tickets are active. Use them to get by the FP guard at the front, but when prompted to turn in your tickets at the front of the FP line, hand over the ones for this evening instead. 99.9% of the time, they do not look at these tickets whatsoever in this point in the line; they just add them to the pile in their hand and impatiently gesture you forward. All the examining of the tickets takes place at the start of the line, not the end. Voila, you've cheated the system. After this ride, you can get off and immediately ride again, since you've held on to the afternoon FPs and can use them in the normal fashion now.

None of this even touches on outright dishonesty and abuse of the FastPass system. In the old days, you could locate the "master" FastPass dispenser and hold in the unlabeled button in the back, which generated a free FP regardless of the ticket (or lack of ticket) in the front of the machine. These days, you need to turn a key to enable the free FP ticket, though sometimes I've seen the key stuck in the back of the machine, unguarded, while the Cast Member is otherwise engaged. I could imagine a "divide and conquer" mentality taking hold to distract the CM.

It would take less work, though, to just lie. Quickly obtain two FP tickets and hide them, then cycle through the other three admission passes (or annual passes) in your possession, getting FPs like normal. Then return to those first two you used, and naturally, what gets spit out are "not a valid FP" tickets. Cry foul to the CM, who may take the time to ask you to cycle through all five of your park admission tickets, but is more likely to just use the override key and give you what you want. Even if they put you through the paces, a little insistence on your end is all it takes for them to "cave" and provide you with the extra tickets.

It strikes me that so many of the ways to cheat at the parks revolve around FastPass. Frankly, I'm not a fan of the entire system."

The above is just something I found that explains a couple of the ways people who used "loopholes". I have no idea if anyone here in this discussion did any of these things. I am just saying that the system was exploited and it was much easier to exploit at the expense of people who simply utilized the Fast pass system in the way that it was intended.
 
Nah. It is more likely that someone will say that they used a "loophole" to get those extra FPs, without really explaining what that loophole is. ;)

Once you entered your Fastpass return window we were able to get a second fast pass even though we had not used the first one yet. The system didn't limit the amount of times you could do this nor limit the amount of Fastpasses you could stash away to be used later. So, the loophole was that I could horde fastpasses to be used at other times while riding other rides with shorter standby lines. So, I could end up with 3 or more fastpasses for TOT for example that I could use to ride back to back to back later that night while some other poor guy got none. Do you think that is the way Disney intended the system to work? Oh, and if I didn't make it back to the park, those would usually end up in the garbage.

By the way, why such impatience on my response? No reason to get snarky. I do other things during the day besides post on this board.
 

Explain for me where the "running" comes in.

Speaking of running- I'm sure we all recall from those days the "designated runner". I just happened upon some old threads about paper fp and "running" to grab fp's this morning. It wasn't technically running because that's not allowed but I think these quotes I ran onto pretty much describe it.

"Imagine the absolute fastest a human being can walk without running, and then add a little more speed, and you're there..,"

"I love being the FP runner! I swerve, duck, and weave through the parks at my own speed without worrying about someone keeping up or pushing a stroller! It's the thrill of the hunt...."

Certainly not the family casually walking to the next ride.

I ran into a lot of old threads this morning- designated runner tips, warnings about getting to Epcot before noon when TT and Soarin' would run out...very interesting stuff to read.
 
I think people are very touchy about the use of the word "loophole" and I think it is obvious the meaning in this context. It is the use of the system in a unintended way. The example of getting a fast pass waiting for the return time and going on a ride and then pulling another one is not..I should say not what I am talking about. That is what the system is intended. The fact that someone did that with precision is great...no problem.

I am saying anyone who is ever in possession of more that 2 sets of fast passes with intent to use those passes is exploiting a loophole. That sounds like a crime LOL. The typical non savvy Disney patron would go get a fast pass...go on some other rides and then return at the time of the pass and ride that ride and then perhaps go and get another one and wait and ride and so on.

I have read some of the ways people optimized the number of passes and is evident that people have freely admit that they would have multiple sets of passes. I have learned some ways that people used to game the system like in the below example I found.

"Moving toward the truly disingenuous, we've got the "FastPass Switcheroo." To do this, simply get your FastPass like normal for Splash Mountain. You notice that the return time is two hours away, in the afternoon. Wait two hours, then return here and get another set of FP tickets, this time for later in the evening. But at this moment, your first set of FP tickets are active. Use them to get by the FP guard at the front, but when prompted to turn in your tickets at the front of the FP line, hand over the ones for this evening instead. 99.9% of the time, they do not look at these tickets whatsoever in this point in the line; they just add them to the pile in their hand and impatiently gesture you forward. All the examining of the tickets takes place at the start of the line, not the end. Voila, you've cheated the system. After this ride, you can get off and immediately ride again, since you've held on to the afternoon FPs and can use them in the normal fashion now.

None of this even touches on outright dishonesty and abuse of the FastPass system. In the old days, you could locate the "master" FastPass dispenser and hold in the unlabeled button in the back, which generated a free FP regardless of the ticket (or lack of ticket) in the front of the machine. These days, you need to turn a key to enable the free FP ticket, though sometimes I've seen the key stuck in the back of the machine, unguarded, while the Cast Member is otherwise engaged. I could imagine a "divide and conquer" mentality taking hold to distract the CM.

It would take less work, though, to just lie. Quickly obtain two FP tickets and hide them, then cycle through the other three admission passes (or annual passes) in your possession, getting FPs like normal. Then return to those first two you used, and naturally, what gets spit out are "not a valid FP" tickets. Cry foul to the CM, who may take the time to ask you to cycle through all five of your park admission tickets, but is more likely to just use the override key and give you what you want. Even if they put you through the paces, a little insistence on your end is all it takes for them to "cave" and provide you with the extra tickets.

It strikes me that so many of the ways to cheat at the parks revolve around FastPass. Frankly, I'm not a fan of the entire system."

The above is just something I found that explains a couple of the ways people who used "loopholes". I have no idea if anyone here in this discussion did any of these things. I am just saying that the system was exploited and it was much easier to exploit at the expense of people who simply utilized the Fast pass system in the way that it was intended.

Nope. Back in the days of yore, I could get a FP for TSM at 10:00a with a return time of, I don't know, around 5:00p-6:00p. That FP says I can get another at 12:00p. I get a FP for TOT at 12:30p with a return time of 6:30p-7:30p. I could get another FP at 2:30p for Star Tours at, say, 4:30p-5:30p. From 2:30p to 4:30p I have 3 sets of FPs and golly I'm planning on using them all. I am exploiting a loophole where exactly?

And all of this without having to decide what park to go to before I rolled out of bed that morning.
 
Speaking of running- I'm sure we all recall from those days the "designated runner". I just happened upon some old threads about paper fp and "running" to grab fp's this morning. It wasn't technically running because that's not allowed but I think these quotes I ran onto pretty much describe it.

"Imagine the absolute fastest a human being can walk without running, and then add a little more speed, and you're there..,"

"I love being the FP runner! I swerve, duck, and weave through the parks at my own speed without worrying about someone keeping up or pushing a stroller! It's the thrill of the hunt...."

Certainly not the family casually walking to the next ride.

I ran into a lot of old threads this morning- designated runner tips, warnings about getting to Epcot before noon when TT and Soarin' would run out...very interesting stuff to read.

Loophole? FP runner? Why, all these terms are so foreign to me. Can you please clarify? :rotfl2:

It is funny how conviently short some memories are, huh?
 
Nope. Back in the days of yore, I could get a FP for TSM at 10:00a with a return time of, I don't know, around 5:00p-6:00p. That FP says I can get another at 12:00p. I get a FP for TOT at 12:30p with a return time of 6:30p-7:30p. I could get another FP at 2:30p for Star Tours at, say, 4:30p-5:30p. From 2:30p to 4:30p I have 3 sets of FPs and golly I'm planning on using them all. I am exploiting a loophole where exactly?

And all of this without having to decide what park to go to before I rolled out of bed that morning.

Are you saying that there were no people using the non-regulated return time to hoard fastpasses early in the day to be used later that night or afternoon? Some of the fast pass return times early in the day were not very long. You could almost go from ride to ride and get fast pass after fast pass. Lots of people did it. You may not have but a lot of people did.
 
Are you saying that there were no people using the non-regulated return time to hoard fastpasses early in the day to be used later that night or afternoon? Some of the fast pass return times early in the day were not very long. You could almost go from ride to ride and get fast pass after fast pass. Lots of people did it. You may not have but a lot of people did.

I gave a valid, legal way to "amass" 3 FPs at once, and in no way can be interpreted as a loophole as presented by the PP.

As for getting FPs close together, that was also not a loophole since every FP you got told you in no uncertain terms when you could get the next one. So yeah, I could get them as often as 40 minutes apart if I just read the FP.
 
Nope. Back in the days of yore, I could get a FP for TSM at 10:00a with a return time of, I don't know, around 5:00p-6:00p. That FP says I can get another at 12:00p. I get a FP for TOT at 12:30p with a return time of 6:30p-7:30p. I could get another FP at 2:30p for Star Tours at, say, 4:30p-5:30p. From 2:30p to 4:30p I have 3 sets of FPs and golly I'm planning on using them all. I am exploiting a loophole where exactly?

And all of this without having to decide what park to go to before I rolled out of bed that morning.

And some days, if your day started at 9am, you might have even pulled a 9am FP for TSM, then rode standby before pulling that 10am FP. More commonly though it happened in MK with Space Mtn or in AK with EE. Lots of times we grabbed FP at 9am for EE, rode standby (or SR), then pulled another set to use later when we got off. Two hours later we had FP for the safari.

Ooh - I'm now over 7,900 posts!
 
A "mechanics" question. Not a "debate" question.
Can you fill in a detail here? You say that you were in Epcot, and that you saw FPs available for attractions at DHS, and that when you went to DHS, you got right on the rides. Did you book your FPs on the app, or did you see availability on the app, but had to wait until you got to DHS to book them at a kiosk? In other words, can you explain the process you used to actually get your DHS FPs when you started your day at Epcot. Thanks.

Has the OP ever responded? Is it possible to see FP availability in any park via the app if you've already used your three FP's that day? What if you haven't used them yet? I know I looked earlier today and TSMM/ToT were all gone but there were still some others available. But I've also been pulling up wait times via browser (which is actually easier to do than logging into MDE to see what FP's are available) and have been seeing pretty low wait times for the secondaries at HS like right now:

Muppet*Vision 3D
5 Min

Rock 'n' Roller Coaster Starring Aerosmith
20 Min

Star Tours - The Adventures Continue

10 Min

The Great Movie Ride
10 Min

The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror
60 Min

Toy Story Midway Mania!
75 Min



.
 
I gave a valid, legal way to "amass" 3 FPs at once, and in no way can be interpreted as a loophole as presented by the PP.

As for getting FPs close together, that was also not a loophole since every FP you got told you in no uncertain terms when you could get the next one. So yeah, I could get them as often as 40 minutes apart if I just read the FP.

I am saying that anything that goes beyond how Disney expects and advertised the program to work is a loophole. I am not saying that what you did was wrong, immoral, any of that but I don't think the argument can be made that it is the way Disney envisioned the program to work. And your example was a very mild example. I have seen the extreme of how many FPs one could accumulate if they were motivated.
 
Once you entered your Fastpass return window we were able to get a second fast pass even though we had not used the first one yet.
The system was designed to allow for getting another FP without using the first one. Your window for the next pass opened with the opening of your existing pass. So if you pulled a FP right when the park opened at 9:00 and got a FP with a return time of 9:20-10-20, you could get another one at 9:21. That wasn't a "loophole".
Not sure about the comment about "impatience". I don't recall writing anything that suggested that you were slow in a response. If I did, it certainly wasn't intended.
 
I have no quarrel with anyone who used the paper FP system in the way in which it was described to get as many FPs as they could. The tickets said when you could get another one and there was no inside knowledge required.

The unenforced return times were something else again. When the sign at the attraction and the ticket itself said, in no uncertain terms "Return between A and B", why would anyone think that it didn't really mean that? That seems to be what a lot of people now refer to as a "secret handshake". I know a lot of people were upset when they started enforcing those return times and took away their special advantage.

But, to me that is all beside the point. The plain fact is that with the paper FP system the distribution of paper FPs was very uneven. The most vocal detractors of FP+ are some of the best examples of that when they boast about how many FPs they got, such as getting 2 each for Soarin and TT in the same day, or rounding up stacks of FPs that they didn't even use and kept as souvenirs.

The paper FP system was clearly not broken for people who knew how to use it to maximize the number they got and whose touring style and schedule fit well with it. But, for the people who didn't or couldn't take the maximum advantage of it, either due to ignorance or having touring styles or personal circumstances that didn't work well with it, it was less than ideal, if not broken.

I appreciate the fact that some of the biggest detractors of FP+ at least freely admit that their dislike of the system is purely because it doesn't work well for them compared to the paper system. But, it continues to astound me that some people fail to understand why Disney might think that a system that results in a more even distribution is in its (and the majority of its guests') best interests. When someone says "I typically got 2 FPs each for TT and Soarin in a day and now I can only get one for one of them" someone at Disney is seeing that and thinking to him/herself "It's working".
 
I am saying that anything that goes beyond how Disney expects and advertised the program to work is a loophole. I am not saying that what you did was wrong, immoral, any of that but I don't think the argument can be made that it is the way Disney envisioned the program to work. And your example was a very mild example. I have seen the extreme of how many FPs one could accumulate if they were motivated.

A very mild example of what?
 
The system was designed to allow for getting another FP without using the first one. Your window for the next pass opened with the opening of your existing pass. So if you pulled a FP right when the park opened at 9:00 and got a FP with a return time of 9:20-10-20, you could get another one at 9:21. That wasn't a "loophole".
Not sure about the comment about "impatience". I don't recall writing anything that suggested that you were slow in a response. If I did, it certainly wasn't intended.

Probably giving a real world example would be best. In my family, I was the runner. My job would be (while wife took the kids to ride some low wait standby rides) to go to the headliners and get fast pass after fast pass. Reason being at that early, the return times were almost simultaneous because there was little to no wait. So, I was already within the FP window and that is all the system cared about as far as issuing me yet another opportunity to get another FP. It didnt care that I had not yet used my latest FP. And it didn't care what time I returned to use any of those fastpasses so I would just hustle to the next headliner and get more fast passes.
 
When someone says "I typically got 2 FPs each for TT and Soarin in a day and now I can only get one for one of them" someone at Disney is seeing that and thinking to him/herself "It's working".

And that could be what a lot of folks find upsetting.


.
 
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Maybe this is the problem. Perhaps people never actually read the words on the ticket. It clearly states that you can get another FP when your window opens. So at 1:15, one could walk (not run) over to Everest and get another FP without first using their Dinosaur FP. Hence, they would have two in hand without exploiting a "loophole". As for having a third, that would entail not using your first during its window. Disney specifically allowed that practice. It was their policy. Ask any CM. They would tell you: "You can come back any time". Until they changed that rule. So if you went during a time when you could return "whenever", you weren't exploiting a loophole. You were following the CM's instructions.

DisneyFastPass.jpg
 












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