Anyone else concerned about MF at the monorail resorts

[BestDadEver]

I have seen it mentioned here and there on the boards . But I truly believe that they are adding all theses DVC resorts to the monorail resorts so they can fit the bill for a monorail refurb .

Look at BLT they had the lowest MF when I bought , now they are creeping up at a higher percent then most resorts I feel once poly and VGF sell out you can expect the announcement that they need to change/add/refurb something to the monorail . They will likely come up with the excuse that the monorail is now overloaded by all the new people at the 3 resorts , since it's already pretty crowded . Pretty much funding a good amount with the money from MF .

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Ain't gonna happen. There's no way you'll ever see anything excessive in your bill for costs associated with replacing the monorail system(s). From a sheer numbers/riders standpoint, the resort monorails are almost an insignificant part of the system anyway. Such an expenditure placed on the shoulders of DVC owners would never hold up and would never be tried.

 

[McCrae]

I have seen it mentioned here and there on the boards . But I truly believe that they are adding all theses DVC resorts to the monorail resorts so they can fit the bill for a monorail refurb .

Look at BLT they had the lowest MF when I bought , now they are creeping up at a higher percent then most resorts I feel once poly and VGF sell out you can expect the announcement that they need to change/add/refurb something to the monorail . They will likely come up with the excuse that the monorail is now overloaded by all the new people at the 3 resorts , since it's already pretty crowded . Pretty much funding a good amount with the money from MF .

I don't think that under our DVC contracts they can do that. The transportation system is very different to operating the resorts and paying for DVC services.

If this was to happen it would men we could also end up paying for upgrades to the buses services via our dues.

 

[JWG]

It would become very apparent in our account reconciliation. You'd see that line item sky rocket and be able to quickly inquire about it. If they inappropriately over allocate transportation costs to DVC members, it would get noticed quickly.

 

[drusba]

The monorail is not a common element of the DVC resorts. Its refurb cost is thus not one that can be included in the long term capital improvements section of your dues. Whatever charges there are for its use are those in the transportation charge of the annual operational portion of the dues. Some refurb charges are likely recaptured via that annual use charge but it is not a charge where there would suddenly be a huge increase in one year. Think of DVC as a business that has a contract with a railroad to provide passenger movement in and out of the resort. If the railroad needs to do a refurb, it does it on its own account. It may recapture some of the costs via the annual price of the annual passenger movement contract it has with the customer business but there will not be any special capital charge to the business. All the non-monorail resorts have been paying a transportation charge for buses, and in most cases, boats, for years, and they have never seen a particular charge for buying new buses or boats or doing major rehabs of either.

 

[CMOORE185]

As far as MF's and BLT, it was discussed at great length that BLT's MF's were artificially low for sales purposes. They used cheap materials that will end up needing upgrades faster than a normal resort, that IMO, will make MF's at BLT rise even faster in the near future. In two to three years I expect BLT to no longer have the lowest MF's.

 

[tjkraz]

As far as MF's and BLT, it was discussed at great length that BLT's MF's were artificially low for sales purposes. They used cheap materials that will end up needing upgrades faster than a normal resort, that IMO, will make MF's at BLT rise even faster in the near future. In two to three years I expect BLT to no longer have the lowest MF's.

There are many factors which conspired to drive up DVC dues. Among them are:

1) Average occupancy is higher than projected. As a resort which shares costs between the hotel and timeshare, costs are allocated on the basis of total hotel occupants. DVC guests ended up being a higher percentage of overall Contemporary guests than anticipated, which resulted in dues being charged for a greater share of shared costs like recreation, security, transportation, landscaping, etc.

2) Staffed front desk at BLT added expenses.

3) Property taxes have steadily risen. The county's tax assessments are based upon property transfer costs (sale prices) which, over a 3-4 year period rose from around $90 per point to $160+. No prior DVC resort saw its price (in this case, also regarded as its value) rise to such a degree.

Replacement costs for in-room materials may have played some role but the above factors also impacted dues rates.

 

[disneynutz]

The truth is as owners we don't really know where our dues money goes other than the general line item break down on our dues statement. Disney has people on staff to analyze and bill as much as legally possible to DVC owners.

DVC doesn't freely give up the details of how they do business, the formulas that they use for dues accounting and how much profit they make managing the DVC. As owners we seem to blindly accept what we are told without question.

The following is the approximate 2014 cost of transportation for resorts with data available:

AKV $3.3 million
BCV $.76 million
BLT $1.7 million
BWV $1.8 million
OKW $5.2 million
SSR $8.1 million
VWL $1.3 million

Bill

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Admittedly, I am more concerned about savanna maintenance than I am about the monorail beam.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Admittedly, I am more concerned about savanna maintenance than I am about the monorail beam.

True dat and I own at BOTH.

 

[Breyean]

If I recall the timing correctly, weren't there three DVC resorts built under the leadership of Lewis?

Look at the dues situation at those three now.

We know, sort of, what happened at Aulani, where the dues were set so low the state of Hawaii had to step in to have Disney recalculate them.

VGC had the highest percentage increase of any DVC resort this past year. Granted being in Ca is probably more costly than Fl resorts, but since it shares so many amenities with the GCH, it makes me wonder how they don't realize enough savings there to keep the dues increases more manageable.

Then there's BLT, which was touted as having super low dues while it was being sold, probably to help offset the point per night inflation to stay there. After it was mostly sold, and management changed, the dues have risen quite rapidly.

Seems there might have been other factors during that period for which members are now paying, and it's not the monorail.

 

[tjkraz]

DVC doesn't freely give up the details of how they do business, the formulas that they use for dues accounting and how much profit they make managing the DVC. As owners we seem to blindly accept what we are told without question.

Welcome to the world of timeshare ownership! Anyone who reads the POS will quickly see how little control "owners" have in how their property is run. (Answer: none.)

Specifically regarding the dues, independent auditors and state oversight exists to help protect buyers from unscrupulous developers. Even in the case of Aulani, mistakes were made but the checks-and-balances discovered and corrected the problems.

 

[disneynutz]

Welcome to the world of timeshare ownership! Anyone who reads the POS will quickly see how little control "owners" have in how their property is run. (Answer: none.)

Specifically regarding the dues, independent auditors and state oversight exists to help protect buyers from unscrupulous developers. Even in the case of Aulani, mistakes were made but the checks-and-balances discovered and corrected the problems.

The following companies and individuals were eventually discovered also:
Madoff
WorldCom
Enron
Lincoln Savings and Loan
Countrywide
Washington Mutual
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
Bank of America Corporation
JPMorgan Chase & Co.
Wells Fargo & Company
Citigroup, Inc.
Ally Financial, Inc.
HealthSouth
Tyco International
Arthur Andersen
Bearn Stearns
Global Crossing
HIH Insurance
Barclays Bank
Barings Bank

You just never know.

Bill

 

[crisi]

I'm more concerned that the monorail resorts are getting built and sold now so that if Disney decides to no longer run the monorail they've made their money on the monorail attached resorts. I think not rebuilding the monorail is a more likely outcome than refurbing it.

 

[dizfan]

When we purchased, we read the POS and realized much is out of our hands.

We assumed the resort we bought at could be sold off and never be part of the system. Consider it a possibility, but more likely Disney likes DVC because it adds hotel capacity, while reducing supply that they have to discount during bad economic times. (Remember, Disney essentially had hotel rooms at 43% off after 9/11 and during the economic crash). Today, even the free dining requires 6 nights paying full price for the room and theme park tickets.

Additionally, worst case scenario, Disney could stop upgrading the parks or shut them down, making the value plummet. Something that could happen, but that would require something drastic given the millions of Disney fans who would riot.

I think it's far more likely they upgrade the monorail to be more automated and reduce labor wages and benefits than it is that they eliminate or try to shift most of the expenses to DVC owners when the majority of monorail users park their car in the TTC or ride a bus to the TTC. Better business model would be to charge more for offsite guest and then raise the hotel/AP prices because it will be more desirable to avoid the parking fees.