Any women with law or medical degrees?

[beachbunny]

There's no way to tell the future.

When I first entered law school, I had the rest of my life planned out - graduation, marriage, partnership at a large law firm, and then kids. Things didn't go as planned. I'm now practicing law and have a terrific husband. But along the way, we decided not to have kids. Instead, we've travelled the world - we've biked France, been on an African safari, and walked the Great Wall of China together. It's not that we couldn't also have made time for kids --- but by the time we thought we were ready for them we had grown in an entirely different direction.

On the other hand, my SIL is also an attorney. She and her husband knew they wanted to start a family soon after she graduated from law school so she took a job in a corporate setting (not exactly practicing law) where she'd have good maternity benefits. She had her first child after one year on the job, took three months off and went back to work. She had her second child a year later. Because child care costs are high and her husband didn't make as much she does, he had to quit his job soon after the second child was born to be a SAHD. Her husband is eager to return to work once the older child is in school.

Finally, my sister is a doctor. She's getting married this summer and wants several kids. She chose her specialty because she adores children and enjoys the excitement of peds ER. But she's just getting started. So we'll see...

 

[m&m's mom]

My DS is a Doctor. She choose Radiology as it is one of the most family friendly Medical professions.
My DS had her 1st child in her 3rd year of residency. She and her DH were both in their residency at the same time. They had a wonderful Nanny at the time. They kind of lucked out because they were living in a town where you could find affordable care because they made next to nothing during their residency.
My DS's SiL graduated med school the same as my DS and BiL but decided to be a SAHM. I have to admit I thought it was a huge waste. Her parents struggled to send her through school and she still racked up significant loans which her DH had to pay off while he was in his residency. Was not exactly a family decision on their part- just hers.
More power to any decision but I do have to lean toward it being an unfortunate tax payer cost. If you really think about it, the reason higher education is subsidized is the return the person is expected to give back- and I mean financially.

 

[Deb in IA]

Originally posted by m&m's mom

More power to any decision but I do have to lean toward it being an unfortunate tax payer cost. If you really think about it, the reason higher education is subsidized is the return the person is expected to give back- and I mean financially.

So, how about people who go to PRIVATE schools? Do they have a free pass to leave the workforce?

 

[caitycaity]

honestly, i do have a problem with people (woman or man) who come into a competitive graduate program with no intent FROM THE START of finishing or using their degree. obviously things may happen to derail someone from finishing or using their degree after they start, but it really irks me when people start a program and take competitive fellowships and/or spaces in the program when they aren't there to really learn.

 

[keenercam]

I've had the best of both worlds!
DD was due in the september after law school. So, I graduated, studied for and took 2 bar exams, had her 5 weeks later, and spent the next 11 months at home with her (the job I had been offered started in August of each year -- my boss deferred my offer for a year -- what an AWESOME man!!!) During those 11 months we finally moved to the state where I wanted to practice (Delaware!) and I took that bar exam, 2 weeks before starting my first law job. I enjoyed the time with my daughter, but would have gone stir crazy if I'd stayed home any longer (did some freelancing while I was home, digesting depositions, etc). Fast forward 5 years when DS was born exactly 6 weeks before DD would be in kindergarten -- I stayed home only those 6 weeks, and was even back in the office after a week, taking him in with me to be spoiled by my colleagues and support staff. At this point, I could see staying home part time to do all the mom stuff, keep up the house, play chauffeur, plan Disney vacations for everyone I know, etc., but, alas, almost time to put DD through college, so I will practice law for at least the foreseeable future.

 

[Lisa F]

Originally posted by caitycaity
honestly, i do have a problem with people (woman or man) who come into a competitive graduate program with no intent FROM THE START of finishing or using their degree. obviously things may happen to derail someone from finishing or using their degree after they start, but it really irks me when people start a program and take competitive fellowships and/or spaces in the program when they aren't there to really learn.

Are there people who really do that? I mean, who are smart enough and driven enough to excel in their undergraduate program and then who get into a very competitive graduate program where they know they will have to work their tail off and do all of that with the intention going in there and learning nothing?

What if the aforementioned person is there to learn just for the sake of learning and has no intention of going into that field when they graduate, would that be ok? I can't imagine why anyone would do that, but they are a serious student and interested in the material. Just curious since you first talk about using the dgree and then say "they aren't there to really learn." Which is more important?

 

[ead79]

originally posted by DocRafiki
You also have to consider that anyone going to a state school is having their education partially paid for by the rest of us. I for one don't appreciate having my tax money spent on an expensive match-making service (that goes for undergrad, too).

I have to admit that I find this statement offensive. I graduated near the top of my class in high school and was accepted at a prestigious private university. I subsequently transferred to our state university (a personal choice, I did not have to leave and was on honor roll at the private university) where my tuition was paid for by scholarship. The scholarship just happens to be funded by the state lottery, but that's another debate in itself, LOL. I am now married and am currently still in the professional work force. Several years down the road, however, I do plan to be a stay at home mother, if the Lord so chooses to bless me. I do not consider my time at college to be a waste of taxpayer money simply because I do not intend to work for the rest of my life. I agree with the above posters--I EARNED my spot at both the private university and the state university, so I deserved to be there. I didn't "take" someone else's spot. If they had had the same grades, test scores, etc. as I did then they would have been admitted to the same universities that I was. I didn't use college as a matchmaking service (I met my DH before college), but I also don't intend to have a life-long career. My education was NOT a waste of my money or anyone else's for that matter. I have learned valuable skills that I use in my current position, and that I will continue to use once I leave the workforce.

And to quote Forrest Gump, "And that's all I've got to say about that."

 

[caitycaity]

Are there people who really do that?

yep. as one example, many people are afraid of entering the "real world" and go to grad school to delay that, even if they don't know what they want to do or if they know they aren't interested in what they majored in in undergrad, but it is easier for them to go and be a full-time student in something they know than getting a 9-5 job.

if the person is truly interested in learning and not there b/c they want/need the degree, i guess i have less of a problem with it, but let me give you an example.

people in most ph.d. programs compete to get teaching assistant positions. assume we are talking about a ph.d. program that is filled with people who are planning to become professors. obviously, it's going to be a huge detriment to someone wanting to become a professor if they can't get teaching experience. is it right for someone who is just there to learn and has no interest in becoming a professor to take the ta position just for the funding? if it were me and i was ta-*** just for the money and not the experience, i would feel bad about taking the position from someone who really needed the experience to further their career goals.

and if the person was REALLY there only for learning they could always audit.

and before any rumors get started no i didn't get beat out of a ta position. i'm not even in a ph.d. program.

edited to add: i'm not sure why i'm getting censored. all i wrote was taing with a dash in between the ta and the i-n-g.

 

[Sandy V.]

Wow, caitycaity, I certainly hope that the T.A. situation you're talking about is the exception, and not the rule. At least I believe that it is.

My experience is with law school, but when I went 25 years ago (was it REALLY that long ago?) there was not a single person, man or woman, who attended that didn't have the intention of practicing/working in a related field. Are they all working in such jobs today? Of course not. But it was (and is) such a rigorous course of study/form of torture that I couldn't imagine someone doing it because they thought it would be "fun" or a great way to meet a future mate.

 

[caitycaity]

Originally posted by Sandy V.
Wow, caitycaity, I certainly hope that the T.A. situation you're talking about is the exception, and not the rule. At least I believe that it is.

i'm sure it is, but it annoys me all the same.

 

[Lisa F]

Are you sure you didn't use a dirty word?

I guess considering that in grad school I tended to work 16 hour days, 6-7 days a week and had nightmares the rest of the hours in the day about getting my work done, I can't relate to someone who thinks doing a PhD is easier than a 9-5 job. Having done both, I would take a 9-5 (or 8-7) job in an instant.

Sometimes you have to take funding where you can get it. If someone had a choice between being a TA and a research assistant and had no intention of teaching, I could see making the choice to be a research assistant instead. On the other hand, if they tell you that either you will be a teaching assistant for xyz class or you are out of luck for funding, I can't see turning it down because someone else might be more interested in teaching as a career than you are.

 

[MinnieYC]

I've never met anyone who is in or went to medical school without intending to use the medical degree in some way (whether it be practicing medicine, consulting, lab research, etc.)
Personally, I cannot even imagine that sort of stress, or the $$$$. Unlike undergrad, there are very few scholarships for medical school, and most students either are lucky and have family who pays tuition or have to take out extensive loans. The exact tuition varies, but for private medical schools...well, let me put it this way: someone asked me the other day, "what's your tuition, 30K a year?" I could only say "I wish!!!" And he thought the 30K included books, room & board, and other fees. Even a lot of state medical schools are pretty pricey. California is the exception from what I've heard, as I think those schools are only 10K a year for tuition. I know the NY state medical schools are jumping up a lot in tuition, and going to one would not have saved me much money in the long run, and I did not really care for the only NY state medical school in NYC (my DH- in law school- and I had to look for schools in the same city).
But anyway, even a lot of private medical schools receive some sort of local funding, and some even have a quota of local residents they must accept, just as state schools do. Even with the high tuition, only a portion of a student's medical education is covered financially. Given that only about 50% of medical school applicants in the US successfully earn a spot in an American medical school, I would be tempted to say that if someone took a spot "just for kicks," I would, quite frankly, find that to be surprising, and a bit stupid. I'd prefer to have a classmate who really had a strong long-term goal in mind for the medical degree.
Also, to be honest, I cannot imagine someone surviving medical school if he/she didn't plan to use the degree. As for using it as a match-making service!?!? Well, a huge part of first year of medical school is anatomy. They don't call it GROSS anatomy for nothin'!!! Somehow, I can't imagine finding a spouse while dissecting a cadaver!

 

[caitycaity]

is i-n-g a bad word. if so, i apologize!

i work 40-60 hours a week and am also in a M.A. program, so i can relate to what you are saying lisa.

for me, school is definately less stressful (though not necessarily easier) than my job. a lot of people in my program who do not work and take only one more class than me complain about not having enough time. personally, i would have more than enough time if i was not working.

i also think a lot of people who have never really worked are very intimidated by making it in the "real world." i know i was. while school may not be easier than working (though depending on the program and the job, i think it could be), it is a known quantity.

i understand about people having to take funding where they can get it, but if they are there just to learn and not for the degree, i think they should audit. even in Ph.D. programs there are going to be some classes that the person is not interested in. why not audit? and if they are there just to delay going to work then i don't think they should take departmental ra or ta positions. jmho. we don't have to agree.

 

[katerkat]

Originally posted by caitycaity
is i-n-g a bad word. if so, i apologize!

Very, very dirty! Actually, I believe there was a large amount of soliciting from a company with the name I N G. Hence the censoring wherever the word appears without a verb.

I sure am glad I went to a private school for college, so I'm not wasting anyone's money by not working currently. Is it a waste that I got a degree in religion as well as journalism, since I only use the religion degree on the Debate Board? DH isn't doing anything with his history degree. And he fully intends to get his Master's in a few years, at the tax-payers expense, and he won't use that degree for a very long time, either.

 

[TigerBear]

Originally posted by Lisa F
I can't relate to someone who thinks doing a PhD is easier than a 9-5 job.

I don't think you could pay me enough to do another dissertation.

 

[skuttle]

I went straight from K to law school....never had a break. DH and I married the summer right before I started law school. I became pregnant w/ DS right before my last semester of law school. It was a surprise for us...we planned on having kids, just not quite yet. I graduated from law school last May. My due date was July 31st....the Thursday after the bar exam. I have every intention of taking the bar...but then I got put on bedrest around father's day and then DS decided to arrive a month early! I didn't take the bar in July, but I will be taking it in a couple of weeks!

I am currently working full-time w/ one of the law firms I clerked for while I was in law school. I went back to work after about 2.5 months at home w/ DS. I was SO ready to go back to work...I'm not the SAH type. After I (hopefully!) pass the bar, I do plan on finding an attorney position, but I'd prefer not to work at one of the "big" firms. I have really no desire to become a partner somewhere. I want to have more kids, and I want to have more time to spend with my family.

Even though we had DS a couple of years earlier than we had originally "planned", I wouldn't change a thing. There will always be excuses for us to not have kids.

 

[TarraLee]

skuttle- glad you could make law and a family work. Just wanted to wish you the best of luck on the bar exam!!!

 

[skuttle]

Thanks so much, TarraLee! It hasn't been easy, but I know it's worth it! Good luck to you in law school.

 

[mcnuss]

Of course, I know it's different in law schools, where it's common for women to go for their "MRS degree" and never practice.

Don't know which law schools you've been hanging around in, but at my law school there wasn't anybody out shopping for an "MRS degree". What an offensive thing to say.

I have a law degree and have never practiced law, although I maintain my license just in case I change my mind. My DH is a solo practitioner in our small town. When I finished law school the economy was terrible and I could not find a job practicing law. Someone had to pay the bills, so I started working for a large company that provides on-line legal research services to law firms. I thought I'd do it for a year or 2, then get a "real" law job. Turned out I loved it and never looked back. As it happened, I got pregnant with DD the summer I was studying for the bar (I suspect it was the celebration after the exam that got us into trouble ) so working for a large company was a blessing.

Is my education wasted? Absolutely not. From the career POV, I work with lawyers everyday and being able to speak their language is very important. From a personal development POV, I can tell you I never did anything as challenging and intellectually stimulating as law school.

I would not change a thing.

 

[mom2grace]

This is always a hot topic and I have a little different perspective.

I have an M.S. in child and family development, DH also has an M.S. and is a scientist for a pharmaceutical company. Our student loan payment each month is as much as our mortgage.

DH and I were both in grad school when we met, I in Georgia, he in Chicago. I had planned to get my Ph.D., but meeting him changed those plans.

DH's mom has always been at-home, my mom is a teacher who was at-home until my sister and I were in school.

I'll preface this with the fact that I've always wanted to be at home when my kids were preschoolers, and now that I work in a field associated with both child care and marriage and family therapy, there is no way I would work full-time.

The state of most day care in the US is deplorable. I can't imagine having my child being raised by a person who is also responsible for 3 other infants or 14 other preschoolers at the same time. I couldn't do that at home, how can I expect them to?Let alone the fact that the pay results in high turnover and potentially the provider not even having a high school diploma, this is common and allowed in my state. (FLAMES ARE COMING!)



I know, I teach early childhood education courses to adults! (Part-time, at night and on the weekends) My students are the cream of the crop in child care and I would trust most of them with my children, but the conditions they work under is deplorable. Somehow, most of them don't realize it and love their jobs!

I think also that those of us who had SAHM's don't appreciate how that shaped our lives. I don't believe you can have it all at the same time!

My sister has an M.S. and is working on her M.B.A. and fully intends to put her as yet unconceived children in day care. And not necessarily for "professional fulfillment" but to have $$ for status symbols (she will tell you this) It makes me sad.

It's only 5 years of your life!! It's sooo short and you can never get those years back.

Is it frustrating being at home some days? OF COURSE! But, I know it's the right thing for my family. It's a choice as much as it's a choice to work and to use day care.

My choice is not more right or wrong than yours, only different.

I dream of getting my Ph.D. some day, but my dreams do not include working full-time ever so long as my children are still living with me.