Antibody test question

[LuvOrlando]

FDA regarding serology (antibody tests): "Because the antibodies are part of the body's immune response to exposure and not the virus itself, such testing cannot be used for diagnosis of infection. Based on the underlying scientific principles of antibody tests, we do not expect that an antibody test can be shown to definitively diagnose or exclude COVID-19 infection."
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices...ical-devices/faqs-testing-sars-cov-2#serology

I don't see how what I said contradicts you, the antibody test is long after, like 6 weeks & has nothing to do with active infection. I think we are talking about 2 different things and that you think I don't know what an antibody test is, I do.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Not sure about others, but my worry (doesn't raise to "angst") is two-fold - one that the tests are just not reliable right now and wrong information is worse than no information and that some people interpret having antibody tests as meaning that things can fully open up with no worries about any distancing at all.

While I get that some people might get confused I am not that, I would like to leave my house though. As high risk I have been in my house since February, my Dr told me to lay low and hasn't sent me an "all clear" so it's not great. At least with this I could say to myself maybe it's not a death warrant. Do you realize no-one is talking to the high risk community, between being objectified & ignored I think we are fending for ourselves.

If you re truly an epidemiologist can I ask you to get a bunch of friends together and create a blog or something for high risk people, maybe a Q & A it's exhausting to be me & there are millions of people like me once you add up all the people on biologics plus naturally at risk. Are we all supposed to hibernate until 2021?

 

[LuvOrlando]

I think there are 2 major concerns. First, not all tests are equally reliable but might be perceived that way. Second, people will let test results change their spread reduction compliance. Both are dangerous. The combination compounds the damage. The expectation is too many people will fall into these categories.

eta- I left out the most important part. Like disneychrista said, knowing we had it doesn't really mean much at this point because so much is still uncertain. The risk is that people's decisions can be misguided based on what they think a positive test represents.

I don't assume all people are incapable of realizing they should consult a Dr. We can get pregnancy tests anywhere now, at the dollar store even and can manage to know step 2 is talk to a Dr. DId you all miss that my Dr gave me a prescription for the test but not much on the brand to go with or how to make sure I get a good one? To be clear I am not confused over whether or not to do it, I KNOW I want to do it, what I was curious on is where to get the best test.

Can't explain how this waded into should or shouldn't without assigning it to angst because the should/shouldn't is not a 'Me problem." Again, this is very strange, to have answers for a question I don't have.

 

[Heather07438]

I don't assume all people are incapable of realizing they should consult a Dr. We can get pregnancy tests anywhere now, at the dollar store even and can manage to know step 2 is talk to a Dr. DId you all miss that my Dr gave me a prescription for the test but not much on the brand to go with or how to make sure I get a good one? To be clear I am not confused over whether or not to do it, I KNOW I want to do it, what I was curious on is where to get the best test.

Can't explain how this waded into should or shouldn't without assigning it to angst because the should/shouldn't is not a 'Me problem." Again, this is very strange, to have answers for a question I don't have.

That is understandable. I'm sorry, didn't mean for my answer to 'what the angst/concern is' to be directed specifically to you or your circumstance. Just generally why this becomes a hot topic. Judging by comments around the internet, alot of people aren't recognizing the finer details and assume they can go back to life as normal after a positive test. Hope you are able to access one of the accurate tests. Bioperfectus looks good but I was unable to find where those are available by me. Good luck

 

[LuvOrlando]

Thanks, it's easy to overlook how many people are high risk. Not only are there natural causes but there are all sorts of medications that drop people in including pricey biologics and prednisone which is very common. No idea how many people are on these things but the number is probably extraordinary - the warnings are right on the labels.

At any rate, I do think high risk people have appropriate reasons to look.

 

[aprilchem]

I just heard about this, might be an option if you’re able to give blood, you could get the antibody test for free https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/dlp/covid-19-antibody-testing.html

I'm signed up to give blood this Friday, and am hoping to get the antibody test and that they will tell me which brand they're using. I'm a chemistry professor and some of my colleagues have gotten the antibody test (we believe we were exposed in February and many of us got sick, plus we're all scientists so we're intrigued) but for the most part, the places testing would not disclose which brand they were using. I'm hoping Red Cross will be a bit more forthcoming.

 

[katie01]

I'm signed up to give blood this Friday, and am hoping to get the antibody test and that they will tell me which brand they're using. I'm a chemistry professor and some of my colleagues have gotten the antibody test (we believe we were exposed in February and many of us got sick, plus we're all scientists so we're intrigued) but for the most part, the places testing would not disclose which brand they were using. I'm hoping Red Cross will be a bit more forthcoming.

best of luck with the test, if you feel comfortable sharing, let us know what they say!

 

[wvjules]

If you are so high risk that you haven't left the house, I don't think depending on an unreliable anti-bodies test is the way to go. First of all, they aren't reliable. Second, if you were to test positive for anti-bodies there's no guarantee how long any "protection" would last if there even is any.

 

[Live4travel]

I'm signed up to give blood this Friday, and am hoping to get the antibody test and that they will tell me which brand they're using. I'm a chemistry professor and some of my colleagues have gotten the antibody test (we believe we were exposed in February and many of us got sick, plus we're all scientists so we're intrigued) but for the most part, the places testing would not disclose which brand they were using. I'm hoping Red Cross will be a bit more forthcoming.

I would be curious to know if your test results have a disclaimer saying a positive test could be indicative of other coronaviruses such as 229E (associated with common cold). Perhaps ask that question before they give you the test.

 

[Heather07438]

I'm signed up to give blood this Friday, and am hoping to get the antibody test and that they will tell me which brand they're using. I'm a chemistry professor and some of my colleagues have gotten the antibody test (we believe we were exposed in February and many of us got sick, plus we're all scientists so we're intrigued) but for the most part, the places testing would not disclose which brand they were using. I'm hoping Red Cross will be a bit more forthcoming.

Any place that's offering testing needs to disclose the brand being used. Very disappointing.

Hope all goes well for you with the Red Cross. Since they're also collecting plasma, I'd expect them to use the accurate brands. A confirmation of that would certainly be welcome

 

[Imzadi]

I just heard about this, might be an option if you’re able to give blood, you could get the antibody test for free https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/dlp/covid-19-antibody-testing.html

Any place that's offering testing needs to disclose the brand being used. Very disappointing.

Hope all goes well for you with the Red Cross. Since they're also collecting plasma, I'd expect them to use the accurate brands. A confirmation of that would certainly be welcome

On the Red Cross link in the first post, it does say that the Red Cross uses a COVID-19 antibody test that is authorized by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA.)

 

[Heather07438]

On the Red Cross link in the first post, it does say that the Red Cross uses a COVID-19 antibody test that is authorized by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA.)

Unfortunately I think the FDA has approved the basically useless tests too. They are not accurate enough to meaningful, under 82% after 20 weeks leaves too much doubt and that's the best case with many of them. That means 18% of the time it is saying positive when the person isn't actually positive.

Look on post #4 of this thread. Only a few of those 14 tests are accurate even tho I think all 14 are approved. Some providers aren't even disclosing which brand. What is going on?

 

[debknight]

From 'money.com':
"The Trump administration has required group and individual health insurance to cover both COVID-19 diagnostic and antibody testing with no cost sharing to patients. So you may be able to get an antibody test for free, even if you haven’t met your plan’s deductible for the year. That said, your health insurance plan might have a list of approved facilities for antibody tests, and if you visit one that’s not on the list you might incur some out-of-pocket costs."

 

[Imzadi]

Unfortunately I think the FDA has approved the basically useless tests too. They are not accurate enough to meaningful, under 82% after 20 weeks leaves too much doubt and that's the best case with many of them. That means 18% of the time it is saying positive when the person isn't actually positive.

Look on post #4 of this thread. Only a few of those 14 tests are accurate even tho I think all 14 are approved. Some providers aren't even disclosing which brand. What is going on?

Ack! 18% error rate is BAD.

 

[Heather07438]

Ack! 18% error rate is BAD.

Absolutely. Almost 1 out of 5 ppl who get a positive result will think they've had it even tho they're actually negative.

And then the question of what a positive even means. We don't know if we can catch it again or transmit again. It's very possible someone having a light case can get a severe case the second time. We lose our immunity to colds often 12-36 months later, which are the other common coronaviruses. Most test don't reveal how much antibody has been developed either. I had chicken pox twice because the first time as a baby only had a few spots, second time was horrendous.

Policy is saying insurance is to pick up the tab including the majority of tests which are inaccurate. We all end up paying for this. I've spent some time trying to see which brands the immunity testing centers by me are using, can't find that info. So we have inaccurate testing flying under the radar and inaccurate perceptions around what positive tests mean. Not a great combo.

 

[Imzadi]

And then the question of what a positive even means. We don't know if we can catch it again or transmit again. It's very possible someone having a light case can get a severe case the second time. We lose our immunity to colds often 12-36 months later, which are the other common coronaviruses. Most test don't reveal how much antibody has been developed either.

Part of the problem is due to what is called: "viral load" or the "infectious dose" one gets exposed to. One may have a light case because they weren't exposed to a high infectious dose.

My antibody test, the Abbot Architect test, did tell us the amount of antibodies we have.

I had chicken pox twice because the first time as a baby only had a few spots, second time was horrendous.

Interesting. I barely remember having a slight rash. I showed my mom and she said I had chicken pox. But, it wasn't bad. I've been wondering all this time if I might get shingles. I've read there is a certain test to see if I've had chicken pox. I may do that.

 

[Heather07438]

Part of the problem is due to what is called: "viral load" or the "infectious dose" one gets exposed to. One may have a light case because they weren't exposed to a high infectious dose.

My antibody test, the Abbot Architect test, did tell us the amount of antibodies we have.

Oh looks like you got one of the golden tests

My 30yo niece recently got shingles on patches of her face in April, very likely due to stress. At first she was prescribed antibiotic for dermatitis. Didn't help and a new patch popped up on her eye lid so she was given an antiviral for shingles. It was hard to diagnose via video. Not fun but went away quickly with the correct treatment. Would be nice to find out you've never had chicken pox. I think that test is cheaper than the shingles vaccine. Good luck!

 

[LuvOrlando]

My experience: Went to Labcorp but didn't know I can ask for the brand but supposedly my Dr should be able to see it. When I checked in at the kiosk with my license everything was pulled up and it appeared as though it went through my BCBS with no mention of cost so I'll see, not that I mind if there is a cost- I was prepared to pay but didn't need to do so. There is supposed to be a 1-2 day wait for results, phlebotomist said they should be doing rapids soon but not yet. In Pa testing is by prescription only so presumably my Dr will be at least notified and/or deliver the results so there should be a consult.

To answer the moral dilemma about whether or not people should be allowed to take care of themselves, I remember when OTC pregnancy tests were fought, then OTC ovulation tests, and a particularly fierce battle over at home HIV testing and that people can't be trusted to know their status alone- thank goodness that's been tossed out the window and now all sorts of things are OTC looking at everlywell. People's lives shouldn't be dependent upon their ability to pay for medical care, personally I see no gray area here. So many people lost their jobs and are struggling and want no part of contributing to the problem. Sure a consult is great so if someone wants to pony up the money for free telemedicine I'm all for it but to tell poor people they have to go it alone if they can't gather the money for a Dr visit and then a test on top of that is just immoral to me. Better they have a test and figure the rest out, it's not like hospitals such as Johns Hopkins (which has been a panacea for most Covid info problems the past 3 months) can't create a public welfare document of some kind with clear directives and if then guidelines. CDC?

If testing accuracy is iffy then the medical community needs to figure out how to weed out the bad tests. Go create a minimum threshold or something, but I can't get behind arguing that it's ok to deprive everyone of a fighting chance. Looking at the news it seems the current policy isn't working out so great. Left to their own devices it seems people prefer to default to the idea it's somewhere else and it's a someone else problem. That narrative needs to change to keep people safe so if they start hearing neighbors & family have had it and conversations happen over how it was an ordeal then maybe that might trigger caution.