Another view on FP+

[JimmyV]

Well, it should keep things spicy around here for quite awhile......

I can think of a few heads that might explode.

I won't be satisfied until there is a thread asking if the OP should use their FP before or after going to their throwaway room to pick up the Elsa costume that is being delivered there.

 

[morethananyonex]

No. You have to go over and read that other thread. The people who are getting shut out are also resort guests. The problem is with the "+10". People who, for whatever reason, want or need to go to the MK on their first day are losing out to people who are going to the MK on the second-tenth days. They are all resort guests. But because the windows open in staggered fashion, people aren't finding availability 60 (or 61 or 62) days in advance. You and I are both going to stay at the Poly and go to the MK on August 1. But because you check in two days before me, you get first choice of FPs for August 1. I don't think this was ever the intended result of the 60 day booking window. Throw out the "+10" and I wouldn't have a problem with this, (although I still prefer rewarding the "aggressive" (as you put it) person who arrives at the park instead of the aggressive person who stays up until midnight to log on to the computer. Agressiveness is still rewarded. It is just a new and different form of aggression.)

You also need to know the "secret handshake". Apparently if you split your group and get them in smaller quantities, you can get spots you couldn't get if you tried to book your entire group at once.

And people said it wasn't fair that people didn't know you could use legacy FP late. This is just crazy.

This is exactly why I've always felt it was ridiculous when people claimed this was all about fairness, and FP+ is just so much more fair. In my head, I always read those comments as "FP+ is more fair to ME because I didn't want to get to the parks early but I know enough to know how to use FP+".

That's the thing. FP+ works wonderfully for DISers (and other guests in the know) who know enough to take full advantage of it and didn't want to put the effort into using FP- in the past. For the people who don't eat, sleep and breath Disney, good luck. They're still the ones getting shut out, but that's okay because apparently, because they could have researched. You know, just like everybody who didn't like FP- could have changed their way of touring.

I don't know about you guys, but my family knew how to maximize FP- long before I found the DIS. It really wasn't difficult to figure out, like some people claim. Pay attention to Disney's own literature and you're golden. We even learned about late arrivals from a CM. Think Disney is going to give out pamphlets about how to use FP+ to the max? Those guests that people claim FP- was unfair for are even worse off now with FP+.

 

[OtherScott]

Aggressiveness is still rewarded. It is just a new and different form of aggression.

You have time to adjust to the new form.

 

[morethananyonex]

I won't be satisfied until there is a thread asking if the OP should use their FP before or after going to their throwaway room to pick up the Elsa costume that is being delivered there from Ebay.

Fixed that for you

 

[OtherScott]

Those guests that people claim FP- was unfair for are even worse off now with FP+.

Cuts both ways, I suspect. The schmoe who didn't want to make it to rope drop to bag a midmorning - midday FP can sleep in and get it from home.

 

[MrInfinity]

No. You have to go over and read that other thread. The people who are getting shut out are also resort guests. The problem is with the "+10". People who, for whatever reason, want or need to go to the MK on their first day are losing out to people who are going to the MK on the second-tenth days. They are all resort guests. But because the windows open in staggered fashion, people aren't finding availability 60 (or 61 or 62) days in advance. You and I are both going to stay at the Poly and go to the MK on August 1. But because you check in two days before me, you get first choice of FPs for August 1. I don't think this was ever the intended result of the 60 day booking window.

Ah, the +10.

Didn't the +10 already cause problems with things like BOG? I imagine for something with incredibly low supply like A&E, which may only handle 1000 FP, this could be a problem. For a typical ride capable of 20,000 guests this shouldn't be an issue.

So is that the case that ppl are finding no A&E availability at 60 cuz others are snagging them at 61-69? Is there any attraction save for A&E / C&R for which this is currently a problem?

Throw out the "+10" and I wouldn't have a problem with this, (although I still prefer rewarding the "aggressive" (as you put it) person who arrives at the park instead of the aggressive person who stays up until midnight to log on to the computer. Agressiveness is still rewarded. It is just a new and different form of aggression.)

True. You're just moving the rush. But, Disney can now control the rush a bit more this way too. As FP+ evolves, they may meter out the FP. Instead of making all 1000 available on that 69th day, make 50 available every day for 20 days. They have options that they will explore, for sure.

 

[OtherScott]

I won't be satisfied until there is a thread asking if the OP should use their FP before or after going to their throwaway room to pick up the Elsa costume that is being delivered there.

 

[JimmyV]

Those guests that people claim FP- was unfair for are even worse off now with FP+.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. I know a family that is going down over Easter for their very first trip. These folks are all brilliant. But they are Disney novices who have not spent a minute on any chat board learining about FP+. Under the old system, they would have seen FP-, figured it out, and used it. Maybe they would have been behind the curve for the first hour, or even the first day. But by day two, they would have figured out every way to work the system. Now, they will arrive in a couple of weeks without a single FP+ booked unless I can really convince them to get off their butts and act. But they just don't appreciate the need to do so. This is a vacation after all. Right? Who books rides in advance? Well, unless they act now, (and frankly, it may already be too late for them), they will have no opportunity to recover and get up to speed. Their entire length of vacation may be booked beyond capacity. They are much worse off now than they would have been under FP-. Once you fall behind with FP+, there is no way to recover. Until your next trip. But if your first trip stinks, there won't be another.

 

[JimmyV]

Ah, the +10.

So is that the case that ppl are finding no A&E availability at 60 cuz others are snagging them at 61-69? Is there any attraction save for A&E / C&R for which this is currently a problem?

Not that I am aware of. The 7DMT will be the next test. But as the saying goes, "the exception proves the rule."

Instead of making all 1000 available on that 69th day, make 50 available every day for 20 days.

I suggested this very soution about 50 FP threads ago.

 

[morethananyonex]

Cuts both ways, I suspect. The schmoe who didn't want to make it to rope drop to bag a midmorning - midday FP can sleep in and get it from home.

I'm referring to the people who are always pitied (for lack of a better word) because they arrive without any touring knowledge. Apparently FP+ is supposed to make things fair for them. Except it can't, when FP+ requires even more Disney knowledge and advance planning on top of that.

FP- was a very simple system to use. Long line? FP available? Ticket in, FP out. The "loopholes", which include things like getting another pass as soon as possible, pale in comparison to the knowledge needed to work the loopholes and kinks of FP+. If someone struggled with FP- (not the people who just didn't want to use it), they're no better off now.

 

[OtherScott]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. I know a family that is going down over Easter for their very first trip. These folks are all brilliant. But they are Disney novices who have not spent a minute on any chat board learining about FP+. Under the old system, they would have seen FP-, figured it out, and used it. Maybe they would have been behind the curve for the first hour, or even the first day. But by day two, they would have figured out every way to work the system. Now, they will arrive in a couple of weeks without a single FP+ booked unless I can really convince them to get off their butts and act. But they just don't appreciate the need to do so. This is a vacation after all. Right? Who books rides in advance? Well, unless they act now, (and frankly, it may already be too late for them), they will have no opportunity to recover and get up to speed. Their entire length of vacation may be booked beyond capacity. They are much worse off now than they would have been under FP-. Once you fall behind with FP+, there is no way to recover. Until your next trip. But if your first trip stinks, there won't be another.

So how many are like your friends, and how many are like the guy setting the alarm clock for 60 +10?

If there's more of your friends, predictions about first-hour apocalypse are probably overstated. If there's more of the latter, boom!

 

[OtherScott]

I'm referring to the people who are always pitied (for lack of a better word) because they arrive without any touring knowledge. Apparently FP+ is supposed to make things fair for them. Except it can't, when FP+ requires even more Disney knowledge and advance planning on top of that.

FP- was a very simple system to use. Long line? FP available? Ticket in, FP out. The "loopholes", which include things like getting another pass as soon as possible, pale in comparison to the knowledge needed to work the loopholes and kinks of FP+. If someone struggled with FP- (not the people who just didn't want to use it), they're no better off now.

My bad. Thought we were talking about late sleepers.

FTR, I think FP was under-utilized before and it will be under-utilized in the future. If you didn't use it when it was right there, you won't use it 60 days out. You'll mean to get around to it, but probably won't.

 

[JimmyV]

So how many are like your friends, and how many are like the guy setting the alarm clock for 60 +10?

If there's more of your friends, predictions about first-hour apocalypse are probably overstated. If there's more of the latter, boom!

Ahhh. But there's the rub. You don't need to choose "either/or". It can be (and is) both. If 20,000 people a day can get a FP+ for 7DMT and 60,000 people are going to go the MK that day, all you need is for 20,000 to be the latter and set the alarm and wipe out all the FPs for the entire day. So 40,000 people show up who are novices and get shut out of a major ride. Under FP-, the only thing the novice needed to do to get on that major ride was to show up in the first hour of park operation and observe where all the people were headed and observe people walking up to those machines that looked like ATMs. So you will now have both of your scenarios running in synch, which are "morning apocaypse" and "clueless shut-outs". You had both before as well, but at least the clueless shut-outs had the opportunity to evolve during the course of their vacation and become cognescenti. That can't happen now. This is exactly the point being made by morethannyonex. People who think that the playing field has been leveled and that Dis'ers and researchers are no longer at an advantage just aren't reading the cards very well. The more complex you make the maze, the fewer mice will reach the cheese.

 

[MrInfinity]

I'm referring to the people who are always pitied (for lack of a better word) because they arrive without any touring knowledge. Apparently FP+ is supposed to make things fair for them. Except it can't, when FP+ requires even more Disney knowledge and advance planning on top of that.

FP- was a very simple system to use.

Most guests simply did not use FP-. I know that sounds crazy, but it's true. That's why so many of us were able to get 6-7 rides in a day -- cuz most ppl did not use it. Most guests just go "look - a ride - let's go". Not "look a ride-- wait -- there is a kiosk over here let's go evaluate it" I know that is so crazy to a FP person, but go read that other thread where the "typical tourer" spoke up, and you see just how many ppl responded like him.

FP- was a system we, the gurus, used to get around the normal people and go ahead of them.

Now FP+ is on your phone, and even the typical tourer has a smartphone and if they can handle a game like Angry Birds, they can handle picking some rides.

Ppl arriving w/o any touring knowledge are not to be pitied. Remember it's vacation. Ppl arrived at DW and vacation spots all around the world for many years before the internet even existed. It is *not* a requirement to be an avid planner / disboard junkie to have a good time at Disney World. I'll bet most ppl that never even heard of the disboards have just as magical a time as anyone else.

 

[*disgal*]

You also need to know the "secret handshake". Apparently if you split your group and get them in smaller quantities, you can get spots you couldn't get if you tried to book your entire group at once.

And people said it wasn't fair that people didn't know you could use legacy FP late. This is just crazy.

What???!! Oh, this is really getting.....cray cray.

Ah, those data warehouse business rules that cost so much....

With everyone starting to be able to pre-book, who knows what loopholes and workarounds will appear (and then disappear).

Well, it should keep things spicy around here for quite awhile......

I can think of a few heads that might explode.

I won't be satisfied until there is a thread asking if the OP should use their FP before or after going to their throwaway room to pick up the Elsa costume that is being delivered there.

You all keep me so entertained!! Thanks for the giggle! Much appreciated.

 

[mcd2745]

FTR, I think FP was under-utilized before and it will be under-utilized in the future. If you didn't use it when it was right there, you won't use it 60 days out. You'll mean to get around to it, but probably won't.

The numbers that were out there was that only about 50% af all parks guests utilized FP- at all. And for the 50% that did use FP-, on average they used only 2 per day.

I believe it also was stated that Disney hopes FP+ utilization to be in the 85% range.

 

[JimmyV]

Now FP+ is on your phone, and even the typical tourer has a smartphone and if they can handle a game like Angry Birds, they can handle picking some rides.

Ppl arriving w/o any touring knowledge are not to be pitied. Remember it's vacation. Ppl arrived at DW and vacation spots all around the world for many years before the internet even existed. It is *not* a requirement to be an avid planner / disboard junkie to have a good time at Disney World. I'll bet most ppl that never even heard of the disboards have just as magical a time as anyone else.

I agree with this 100%............as long as same day availability remains viable. Reports are starting to trickle in that this isn't always the case. If and when a ride on Space Mountain becomes as cumbersome to obtain as a 6:30 ADR at 'Ohana, then we have issues.

 

[mom2rtk]

I suggested this very soution about 50 FP threads ago.

That would seriously just tick me off. This is already WAY too hands on. Watching and trying for an endless period of time would be torture. Isn't that sort of how it has been for people looking for Elsa costumes? A few show up here on this date, then a few there on another date. And they have to stay vigilantly at their computers and phones on the hunt. Yuck.

 

[*disgal*]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. I know a family that is going down over Easter for their very first trip. These folks are all brilliant. But they are Disney novices who have not spent a minute on any chat board learining about FP+. Under the old system, they would have seen FP-, figured it out, and used it. Maybe they would have been behind the curve for the first hour, or even the first day. But by day two, they would have figured out every way to work the system. Now, they will arrive in a couple of weeks without a single FP+ booked unless I can really convince them to get off their butts and act. But they just don't appreciate the need to do so. This is a vacation after all. Right? Who books rides in advance? Well, unless they act now, (and frankly, it may already be too late for them), they will have no opportunity to recover and get up to speed. Their entire length of vacation may be booked beyond capacity. They are much worse off now than they would have been under FP-. Once you fall behind with FP+, there is no way to recover. Until your next trip. But if your first trip stinks, there won't be another.

 

[grealock]

We are here this week. I have been to WDW 15 times, and this by far the worst we have ever experienced. I am a rd commando and lived by tour guide mike. I adjusted my plans, but the fp+ is a farce. I feel sorry for no resort guest, but I feel totally played by Disney this trip. I consider myself an expert, but these changes stink. We spent twice as much on this trip than in years past an rode maybe half that we usually do. My kids will not wait in lines. Guess it will be a long time before we come back. Not worth the money. So sad.