Another Transfering Points Question

[zerb]

Say I have 2 contracts. First one, 25 pts VWL, UY Dec. Second one, looking into getting OKW 150 pts, UY Dec. What is the rule on transfering points? Can I transfer my OKW pts to my VWL account and still make reservations 11 months out at VWL? When are points available for transfer? HELP!!!

 

[CarolMN]

Say I have 2 contracts. First one, 25 pts VWL, UY Dec. Second one, looking into getting OKW 150 pts, UY Dec. What is the rule on transfering points? Can I transfer my OKW pts to my VWL account and still make reservations 11 months out at VWL? When are points available for transfer? HELP!!!

MS will not allow a member to transfer points between his or her own contracts to make a reservation at 11 months (if the contracts are for different home resorts). That's a violation of the booking rules and it will not be allowed.

In the example, you could use the OKW points at VWL at the 7 month mark. MS may have to actually transfer a few points to make that happen (to get enough points to reserve in whole night increments), but it will not be a problem at 7 months.

While it is true that (at this time), the computer system cannot properly track the home resort of transferred points, MS will not allow a member to take advantage of the glitch by transferring points between his/her own contracts.

Best wishes -

 

[Dean]

MS will not allow a member to transfer points between his or her own contracts to make a reservation at 11 months (if the contracts are for different home resorts). That's a violation of the booking rules and it will not be allowed.

In the example, you could use the OKW points at VWL at the 7 month mark. MS may have to actually transfer a few points to make that happen (to get enough points to reserve in whole night increments), but it will not be a problem at 7 months.

While it is true that (at this time), the computer system cannot properly track the home resort of transferred points, MS will not allow a member to take advantage of the glitch by transferring points between his/her own contracts.

Best wishes -

That is partly true. DVC will not allow one to transfer points that fall under one master contract as there is no appropriate reason to do so. However, a single owner with separate contracts may transfer points between the two contracts and in some cases, this applies to banked and borrowed points as well.

 

[Blue&Gold]

Dean, since the two contracts have the same use year wouldn't DVC automatically combine them under one member number, effectively making this like a member with an original contract and an add-on at a different resort?

 

[CarolMN]

That is partly true. DVC will not allow one to transfer points that fall under one master contract as there is no appropriate reason to do so. However, a single owner with separate contracts may transfer points between the two contracts and in some cases, this applies to banked and borrowed points as well.

I can't think of a legitimate reason to transfer points between contracts owned by the same person(s) except to make a reservation.

So I still believe the request to transfer points between contracts owned by the same member(s) would be denied even if the contracts did not fall under one Master contract. MS can easliy make a transfer to make a reservation at the 7 month window so why allow a transfer before a reservation request and thus allow the "converting" of points from one home resort to another?

Best wishes -

 

[Dean]

Dean, since the two contracts have the same use year wouldn't DVC automatically combine them under one member number, effectively making this like a member with an original contract and an add-on at a different resort?

Yes and no. For add ons or even larger new contracts that you buy from DVC, they will be added to the master contract if they are the same EXACT registration. Same for resale purchase for those that are already a member in theory. Apparently DVC has missed a few not realizing one adding on resale was indeed a member. I'm told they will not go back and fix it if that "mistake" does happen. If the registration is different AT ALL, it must be a totally separate contract no matter how small or large. DVC will not sell retail for less than 150 points unless the registration is the same. The only semi exception I'm aware of was where someone bought 150 points but in two 75 pt contracts where DVC allowed them to register differently but they they became a separate contract.

I can't think of a legitimate reason to transfer points between contracts owned by the same person(s) except to make a reservation.

So I still believe the request to transfer points between contracts owned by the same member(s) would be denied even if the contracts did not fall under one Master contract. MS can easliy make a transfer to make a reservation at the 7 month window so why allow a transfer before a reservation request and thus allow the "converting" of points from one home resort to another?

Best wishes -

Carol, while I may agree with your principle, it is not reality. In essentially every circumstance, DVC treats multiple contracts of a single owner just like two different people. So you can do anything you want between the two contracts that you and I could do. That includes transferring points just because I want to if the desire arises. Of course there is no question of remuneration in this transfer situation. Plus, as I stated earlier, DVC will allow transfer of banked or borrowed points on a case by case basis where appropriate otherwise. The problem DVC has with handling the conversion is one they will have to deal with. They would have no legal grounds for denying a transfer as you suggest they would. And if that means that my OKW Aug points became BW Dec points, that is up to DVC to remedy and thus far they've shown no inclination to do so. Frankly I wish they would.

 

[CarolMN]

Yes and no. For add ons or even larger new contracts that you buy from DVC, they will be added to the master contract if they are the same EXACT registration. Same for resale purchase for those that are already a member in theory. Apparently DVC has missed a few not realizing one adding on resale was indeed a member. I'm told they will not go back and fix it if that "mistake" does happen. If the registration is different AT ALL, it must be a totally separate contract no matter how small or large. DVC will not sell retail for less than 150 points unless the registration is the same. The only semi exception I'm aware of was where someone bought 150 points but in two 75 pt contracts where DVC allowed them to register differently but they they became a separate contract.

Carol, while I may agree with your principle, it is not reality. In essentially every circumstance, DVC treats multiple contracts of a single owner just like two different people. So you can do anything you want between the two contracts that you and I could do. That includes transferring points just because I want to if the desire arises. Of course there is no question of remuneration in this transfer situation. Plus, as I stated earlier, DVC will allow transfer of banked or borrowed points on a case by case basis where appropriate otherwise. The problem DVC has with handling the conversion is one they will have to deal with. They would have no legal grounds for denying a transfer as you suggest they would. And if that means that my OKW Aug points became BW Dec points, that is up to DVC to remedy and thus far they've shown no inclination to do so. Frankly I wish they would.

Me, too. I often wonder how DVC can let this go - seems to me like it would violate the provison (at least in spirit if not the letter) of the law that states you cannot sell more space than you have.

Best wishes -

 

[Dean]

Me, too. I often wonder how DVC can let this go - seems to me like it would violate the provison (at least in spirit if not the letter) of the law that states you cannot sell more space than you have.

Best wishes -

The only way they could stop it would be to upgrade the computer system to track transferred points. This would essentially mean either building in every combo of use years and home resorts to each account OR to give the MS CM who answer the phones a way to add each one on the fly. My guess is it's simply easier and CHEAPER to allow the minor variations to continue. And given that we're likely talking hundreds of thousands of member dollars to correct it, they are probably making the best decision.

But don't let your emotions color the facts. The fact is they could not stop the transfer if they wanted as long as the other rules were followed. And while I'd guess many members who buy in a situation that generates a different master contract do so understanding the ins and out, I'd guess that an equal number do not. And it's not their fault that Disney can't put the points under one umbrella, which would correct this specific problem. While I don't know of any specific examples, I wouldn't be surprised if there were those with different master contracts on purpose for the more in demand resorts that either rent points from other members or have feeder contracts for the cheaper resorts to purchase and/or own. Remember DVC can't be more strict than what the rules say, in some cases they can be less strict but they are on shaky ground any time they are. And I usually end up feeling they are in the wrong whether it's allowing over the legal occupancy or in this situation where it's possible to bypass the home resort priority for certain points. Though I'd guess that many times it works in reverse where the transfer variations work against the receiver rather than for them.

The only thing DVC could enforce would be if one had several resorts under one master, they can insist any transferred points go to the matching resort subcontract. It is my understanding they do so but with limited information.

 

[RobDoc]

I agree that MS can't/shouldn't restrict transfers between accounts as they do allow the non-DVC options to be reserved up to 2 years in advance now with DCL reservations.

At this time, they should be able to track the transferred points thru the use of digital notations made in the account at the time of transfer. They already use these notes to make comments about the transaction. It appears that they do not always follow up on the notations when accomplishing later transactions. A pretty simple script could be used to manually track these transfers thru the notes made in the contract and easily end the "loopholes" that apparently exist in the system. A software overhaul would surely be a costly issue to accomplish the same thing. There would still be a "cost" to do it manually, because more time would be required for those transactions and errors would more likely be made when depending on manual manipulation of these accounts, but it likely could be done if they deem it a big enough issue.

 

[Dean]

I agree that MS can't/shouldn't restrict transfers between accounts as they do allow the non-DVC options to be reserved up to 2 years in advance now with DCL reservations.

At this time, they should be able to track the transferred points thru the use of digital notations made in the account at the time of transfer. They already use these notes to make comments about the transaction. It appears that they do not always follow up on the notations when accomplishing later transactions. A pretty simple script could be used to manually track these transfers thru the notes made in the contract and easily end the "loopholes" that apparently exist in the system. A software overhaul would surely be a costly issue to accomplish the same thing. There would still be a "cost" to do it manually, because more time would be required for those transactions and errors would more likely be made when depending on manual manipulation of these accounts, but it likely could be done if they deem it a big enough issue.

Having worked with computer systems to a degree and being in the middle of a major computer overhaul and conversion at work, I am reminded daily that things that seem like they should be that easy never are. Even a simple script put into a computer system will likely have other affects on the system. Plus it'd have to interface with the website as well. I'd agree with your implied reality, that DVC has no interest in correcting this problem. Even if they could, they'd need to be able to do so while you were on the phone for the transfer and to allow usage at day one at the immediate time of a phone call for day by day 11 month reservations to make any correction reasonable or worthwhile.

 

[THE WIGGLES]

What would happen if a member transferred "holding points" from one of their contracts to another of their contracts? What would be the status of the points?

 

[Dean]

What would happen if a member transferred "holding points" from one of their contracts to another of their contracts? What would be the status of the points?

They are supposed to keep their expiration and home resort status however it appears they often take on the home resort and use year of the destination contract and lose their holding account status.