Another example of “pay more, get less”..water park hours reduced

[dislmntx]

Isn't there some kind of Frozen-themed party happening at Blizzard Beach at some point? I forget the details, but I know I just heard about it recently.

Yes! That is exactly the type of thing I'm talking about. I think they should be doing more "extra" type things like this that would encourage attendance at the water parks. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Angel Ariel]

But that is just it, how many of the NOT once and done folks are really willing to stop going or sell their DVC to make any difference?
The only way Disney is going to listen is if the vast majority of those people just all decide to be done. As long as rooms are filled and park tickets are being sold they aren't going to even notice you aren't there anymore when its just a few here and there because there are people taking up those spots. It will take a significant number of people not going to make a change, and I just don't think that is going to happen.

Disney has been taking things away for years, and the complaints have always been there, but somehow they still have record attendance.

Disney released blackout dates for the florida select resident 3/4 day passes this year over the very popular spring break/easter time. Now we're seeing discounts in the middle of summer that haven't been seen in a long time...I would venture to say they *aren't* filling the rooms the way they want to be, or they wouldn't be offering discounts or unblocking blackout dates for periods that are usually very crowded without discounts being available. Disney doesn't put out discounts just because.

 

[Angel Ariel]

But Is Disney adjusting their hours of operation to the traffic patterns or are they hoping to adjust traffic patterns to meet their new business model of fewer hours?

Given the reports of how far over budget Shanghai is and the cuts that they need to make in the US parks to cover for those overruns, I'm far more inclined to believe the latter than I am the former.

 

[Hikergirl]

Disney released blackout dates for the florida select resident 3/4 day passes this year over the very popular spring break/easter time. Now we're seeing discounts in the middle of summer that haven't been seen in a long time...I would venture to say they *aren't* filling the rooms the way they want to be, or they wouldn't be offering discounts or unblocking blackout dates for periods that are usually very crowded without discounts being available. Disney doesn't put out discounts just because.

That just proves my point though. They are still taking all these things away because they can still get people to come with things like a discount or released blackout date. If you don't want Disney to continue to take then its going to take a whole heck of alot of people to stop coming. The ones I see complaining the most are the ones who have been going to Disney over and over again and have seen all that is lost. If all of those people decide to collectively stop vacationing at WDW someone will listen, but not enough do so I don't think just calling them to voice your disappointment is going to do anything.

I just looked, they were offering summer discounts in 2012, so its not like they are new this year. Not sure about before 2012 the site only went back that far.

 

[Angel Ariel]

so I don't think just calling them to voice your disappointment is going to do anything.

With all due respect, I disagree. I have personally witnessed the difference that large vocal outcry can make at Disneyland. Part of the problem with WDW is that there isn't enough people who do voice their opinions for wdw to bother, in large part IMO because of exactly your reasoning. They don't believe it will do anything. Believing that, however, doesn't make it so. Aladdin was supposed to close in DCA somewhere back in 2009/2010/2011ish. Like they hsd actually announced a closing date and a replacement show (Toy Story). There was a *huge* vocal backlash from their AP base. DLR backtracked and kept aladdin running until just this past January (2016). So yes, I do believe that if people are vocal enough and take the time, it can make a difference. Didn't something similar happen at BBB in WDW this year? Weren't they supposed to take away the photographers inside BBB who took pics during the make over, then backtracked after a huge influx of complaints?

 

[Mikie]

. So yes, I do believe that if people are vocal enough and take the time, it can make a difference. Didn't something similar happen at BBB in WDW this year? Weren't they supposed to take away the photographers inside BBB who took pics during the make over, then backtracked after a huge influx of complaints?

Yes, it was very reaffirming to see! BBB cancelled photographers, officially announced and I think occurred for a few days, maybe even a couple weeks. Much outcry here and a lot of folks contacting WDW. They reversed the decision and there was much rejoicing

I'm sure sometimes you just can't stop the train, but I'm generally an optimist and Disney has shown that sometimes they DO genuinely listen.

 

[Sevey13]

Given the reports of how far over budget Shanghai is and the cuts that they need to make in the US parks to cover for those overruns, I'm far more inclined to believe the latter than I am the former.

I hear this a lot, but I'm not sure how capital overruns in one budget affect operational budgets in another. Most competent businesses, of which Disney is, handle money for capital improvements 100% independently of operations. So cutting a performer in WDW would affect the operations budget, but not free up anything for capital. Where is people's proof that 1+1=3 here?

 

[Angel Ariel]

I hear this a lot, but I'm not sure how capital overruns in one budget affect operational budgets in another. Most competent businesses, of which Disney is, handle money for capital improvements 100% independently of operations. So cutting a performer in WDW would affect the operations budget, but not free up anything for capital. Where is people's proof that 1+1=3 here?

Disney won't come out and say it themselves, so if that's what you are looking for, it's likely that will never happen.

This article from micechat discusses it

And another about wdw

Google wdw cuts shanghai.

 

[Hikergirl]

With all due respect, I disagree. I have personally witnessed the difference that large vocal outcry can make at Disneyland. Part of the problem with WDW is that there isn't enough people who do voice their opinions for wdw to bother, in large part IMO because of exactly your reasoning. They don't believe it will do anything. Believing that, however, doesn't make it so. Aladdin was supposed to close in DCA somewhere back in 2009/2010/2011ish. Like they hsd actually announced a closing date and a replacement show (Toy Story). There was a *huge* vocal backlash from their AP base. DLR backtracked and kept aladdin running until just this past January (2016). So yes, I do believe that if people are vocal enough and take the time, it can make a difference. Didn't something similar happen at BBB in WDW this year? Weren't they supposed to take away the photographers inside BBB who took pics during the make over, then backtracked after a huge influx of complaints?

Maybe you are right or maybe not. Disney knows what they can get away with and will do whatever that is. Only time will tell.

Funny, I just opened my email and found an up to 30% off code. Still not enough to get me back.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Maybe you are right or maybe not. Disney knows what they can get away with and will do whatever that is. Only time will tell.

Funny, I just opened my email and found an up to 30% off code. Still not enough to get me back.

I have one of those today too. Also still not going to wdw.

 

[Sevey13]

Disney won't come out and say it themselves, so if that's what you are looking for, it's likely that will never happen.

This article from mucechat discusses it

Not trying to single you out, because I know a lot of other people have said this same thing.

That article doesn't have any real proof. It's just more speculation, and seems based on the premise that Disney is not doing what 99.999% of business do and mixes capital and operations together.

An alternate explanation for the cuts at WDW could be what I haven't seen mentioned once, which is that they are about to nearly double the hours of one of the parks for the first time. Think of the cost that comes with keeping AK open later. Setting aside the probably much higher salaries the specialists who handle veterinary care and oversee the animals, they are bringing on dozens of performers for brand new shows and experiences. That money has to come from somewhere. On this very board people have hoped that Lion King will have a few shows in the evening. Disney's gotta pay all those actors. The price for the rank-and-file CMs alone is more than we probably think. Not saying this is the reason, but it's more reasonable in a business climate.

Ticket sales for Shanghai are through the roof right now. It can clearly handle itself. Why are we blaming it for all the woes? I would instead blame the new Parks CEO. What does a new CEO do when he's brought in? Make a mark. Specifically, prove to the stockholders he is worth his bloated salary. How do you do that? By shaving things here and there.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Like I said, if you are looking for disney to confirm the reports you'll be waiting forever. All there will ever be is "speculation" because disney will never confirm it. I doubt they'll ever comment on it at all.

You asked why so many were thinking along those lines, I'm just answering. You don't have to believe it, but there are reasons that others do.

 

[Iowamomof4]

Maybe you are right or maybe not. Disney knows what they can get away with and will do whatever that is. Only time will tell.

Funny, I just opened my email and found an up to 30% off code. Still not enough to get me back.

What are the dates for your code if I may ask? Just curious if there is a new round of pin codes going out or if this is the same deal as before.

 

[Angel Ariel]

What are the dates for your code if I may ask? Just curious if there is a new round of pin codes going out or if this is the same deal as before.

5/30 to 8/25 in the one i got today

 

[Iowamomof4]

5/30 to 8/25 in the one i got today

Thanks. Those are the same dates as the one I received in February.

 

[mshanson3121]

But Disney's not doing that, either. They aren't throwing people out of the gates because there aren't enough people there, they're just adjusting their hours based on traffic patterns.

I don't know whether I live in your town or not, but I've lived all over the country and I've never been in a place where at least some of the businesses didn't seasonally adjusted their hours. Open air venues like amusement parks tend to do it more often than indoor ones, but bowling alleys and movie theaters, for example, open earlier during times when school is out. You can find a 9:30 am showing of Zootopia during spring break but not the week after the kids go back to school. And I'm betting if you look beyond the obvious in your town, you'll find a similar situation exists there, especially in entertainment venues.

But aside from that, any business would shut down when the revenue that comes from being open just match/exceed the costs of being open. My local Staples doesn't open until 9 while more urban ones open this 8, because they have a traffic history of justifying the extra hour while the one in my town doesn't. It's annoying when I need something early, but I can't blame them because it's their business to run as they need to run it.

It doesn't matter whether Disney makes a lot of money or not, because they aren't a non-profit that needs to zero sum their revenues. If the numbers don't justify being open, then they shouldn't be open.

It's nice to think that's what they're doing, isn't it? The more likely reality is, they're just cutting corners where they think they can due to overruns. But regardless, the answer still stands, NO, the stores/restaurants here do NOT do that. And okay, hey, knowing the three cities in our province where I live, guess what.... SAME THING. No. They don't adjust hours. Open the same hours, whether it's spring, summer, fall or winter. Whether it's spring break or the middle of the week. And no, just because the places where you've lived have businesses that do it, does not mean that every town/village/city in the entire world, does the same. Again, that should be common sense.

 

[whiporee]

but likewise, it should be common sense that just because the places nearby you don't have seasonal hours, that is not universal, either. Hell, New York City shuts down at 2 on summer Fridays so people can get out of town -- flexible hours are certainly not unusual, and especially in entertainment venues.

And none of us know a) whether these hours will stick b) since it has historically been the case that Disney starts with reduced hours and expands them beyond earlier publications, whether that will be the case this year and c) the real motivation for reductions.

 

[TreyQ3]

I hear this a lot, but I'm not sure how capital overruns in one budget affect operational budgets in another. Most competent businesses, of which Disney is, handle money for capital improvements 100% independently of operations. So cutting a performer in WDW would affect the operations budget, but not free up anything for capital. Where is people's proof that 1+1=3 here?

I agree. I'm shocked how many people believe the Shanghai overruns are causing the operations cutbacks. Unless a company is having cash flow problems, capital overruns are independent of short-term profit issues. I work for a Fortune 50 company and we are currently under an expense freeze, yet we are accelerating capital spending to this year.

I would believe the real driver of the operational cutbacks are due to the lower subscriptions for ESPN. The erosion of ESPN revenue due to the cord cutters may be causing the other divisions to tighten their belts.

 

[Slapshot1188]

Common sense says that when crowds are at all time highs you add capacity not shrink it. Well, that's only if you care about the customer experience.

Iger's contract is up in 2018 and everything is short term focused.

 

[Sevey13]

I agree. I'm shocked how many people believe the Shanghai overruns are causing the operations cutbacks. Unless a company is having cash flow problems, capital overruns are independent of short-term profit issues. I work for a Fortune 50 company and we are currently under an expense freeze, yet we are accelerating capital spending to this year.

I would believe the real driver of the operational cutbacks are due to the lower subscriptions for ESPN. The erosion of ESPN revenue due to the cord cutters may be causing the other divisions to tighten their belts.

Exactly. It just isn't the way competent companies run their books, especially ones so highly placed by Fortune. I don't buy it.