Another example of “pay more, get less”..water park hours reduced

[maxiesmom]

This is interesting. I like going to lunch at 11:15 because the crowds are lower and the lines are short. Using this logic, they should close and only be open when they have maximum crowds.

I like to go to Red Lobster on a Tuesday night at 8:30 pm because the restaurant is clearing out and I don't have to wait for 45 minutes for a table, but using your logic - Red Lobster should close their doors right after that 7:00 pm peak.

I enjoy playing golf on weekdays in the morning, but I guess golf courses shouldn't be open unless all the tee times are full.

During holiday shopping, I like to wander around the mall on Thursday night around 8:15. They should only be open on the weekends I guess.

Having a few hours a day with lower crowds allows the employees and guests to ease into a busy day. After all...it is a VACATION! Why not have an opportunity to show up without a long line to get in and fight for chairs and shade.

With the prices Disney is charging, there is no excuse for not staffing their parks with longer hours.

Do none of the restaurants around you adjust hours based on demand? They do by me.

 

[poppinspenguins]

Do none of the restaurants around you adjust hours based on demand? They do by me.

I am not the posting you are quoting...but. everyone knows that store and restaurants have dead times. Most people know that the early you get to a amusement park the better off you are crowd wise. The are taking away another thing. Bets on how long to an after hours water park ticket?

Just like the tiered parking...they are now touting as premier what early birds got for free.

The only restaurants store I know that change hours are downtown depending on sporting events, festivals etc.(I'm in a fairly large city) or seasonal places that only open on warmer weather like a dairy bar.

I was a server in college. We had down time with less people clocked in...and we were to get different prep tasks done. At peak we would have x number of servers and that number would dwindle til closing time.

"It's not that busy at that time so Disney should open later" is a horrible arguement.
The very same arguement could be made. At all the parks...why not push all of them back?

Might as well only open the Disney pools from 10 to 3 as that is when they are most crowded....might as well only have food court open 530 to 8. Disney crunched the numbers and decided theae were the most magical (profitqble) hours anyway. The possibilities for money saving are endless.

 

[mom2rtk]

I am not the posting you are quoting...but. everyone knows that store and restaurants have dead times. Most people know that the early you get to a amusement park the better off you are crowd wise. The are taking away another thing. Bets on how long to an after hours water park ticket?

Just like the tiered parking...they are now touting as premier what early birds got for free.

The only restaurants store I know that change hours are downtown depending on sporting events, festivals etc.(I'm in a fairly large city) or seasonal places that only open on warmer weather like a dairy bar.

I was a server in college. We had down time with less people clocked in...and we were to get different prep tasks done. At peak we would have x number of servers and that number would dwindle til closing time.

"It's not that busy at that time so Disney should open later" is a horrible arguement.
The very same arguement could be made. At all the parks...why not push all of them back?

Might as well only open the Disney pools from 10 to 3 as that is when they are most crowded....might as well only have food court open 530 to 8. Disney crunched the numbers and decided theae were the most magical (profitqble) hours anyway. The possibilities for money saving are endless.

I'm really convinced that their goal in all of this (with help from the data they get with MM+) is to have every day be the equivalent of a crowd level 7.

 

[BridgetBordeaux]

I just sent an email to guest.services@disneyworld.com

I encourage others to do the same.

You need to include you name, address, phone number, and email address in your message. They have always called me on the phone after providing feedback.

I asked them why they were opening at 10 am in May/June/July/August. I suggested 9am.

Please don't forget to send them an email.

This thread has already achieved several thousand views!

 

[AshleeH]

Here's a continuing theme I'm noticing in threads like this, where the conversation shifts from the original point to Disney the Conglomerate vs. the Average Joe. Before I start, I should say that Disney should not be cutting CM hours and other cost saving measures at a time when they are seeing new records - so, yes, I get that and it should be fixed quickly. With that being said:

Everyone wants low crowds and low prices - well, you have to pick one. Those of you complaining about the price going up, are you willing to deal with capacity crowds every single day of the year if they stay the same? It is Disney's purpose to price people out of the market so they are not dealing with capacity crowds all the time. Yes, they are a business - they want to squeeze every nickel out of people that they are willing to pay and they want to keep them on property so they're not visiting one of the unaffiliated parks. At the same time, they don't want a peak season and low season - they want more stability for the overall vacation experience, but no one wants to be there with capacity crowds. Sure, it's tolerable during Easter and Christmas, but this would not be a repeat vacation destination for thousands if everyday was like Christmas Day (with more heat and fewer perks). So yes, Disney is trying to price their vacations so high that they not only keep up with the demand, but stay slightly ahead of it.

So - in a very simplistic view - if you want low crowds, you quite literally have to pay for it.

 

[Slapshot1188]

Here's a continuing theme I'm noticing in threads like this, where the conversation shifts from the original point to Disney the Conglomerate vs. the Average Joe. Before I start, I should say that Disney should not be cutting CM hours and other cost saving measures at a time when they are seeing new records - so, yes, I get that and it should be fixed quickly. With that being said:

Everyone wants low crowds and low prices - well, you have to pick one. Those of you complaining about the price going up, are you willing to deal with capacity crowds every single day of the year if they stay the same? It is Disney's purpose to price people out of the market so they are not dealing with capacity crowds all the time. Yes, they are a business - they want to squeeze every nickel out of people that they are willing to pay and they want to keep them on property so they're not visiting one of the unaffiliated parks. At the same time, they don't want a peak season and low season - they want more stability for the overall vacation experience, but no one wants to be there with capacity crowds. Sure, it's tolerable during Easter and Christmas, but this would not be a repeat vacation destination for thousands if everyday was like Christmas Day (with more heat and fewer perks). So yes, Disney is trying to price their vacations so high that they not only keep up with the demand, but stay slightly ahead of it.

So - in a very simplistic view - if you want low crowds, you quite literally have to pay for it.

Sorry but this is just plain wrong. When you have a CAPACITY problem you INCREASE hours available to your customers, you do not CUT operating hours. Most people would be willing to pay more to get more, instead we pay more to get LESS.

Disney PARKS (just Parks) made $3,000,000,000 last year.

This is pure greed. It's one thing to raise prices if you are improving or at least maintaining the value. Raising prices and cutting hours is just greed.

 

[pa. dad]

As Disney fans we can only hope that universal surpasses attendance of AK,HS and EP. Disney has been leading the market for too long and has become complacent. They are going to have to step it up or move over.

People keep saying how Disney is doing so well that they don't care about their customers, but they released some big summer promotions we haven't seen in a long time in summer months, which only gives me hope that they are starting to realize they are loosing their customers.

Ellie
In addition to being a fan, I'm also a Disney stockholder and I have nothing against Disney profits and especially Disney dividends. But sometimes the zeal for profits can be too much and you have to compete too.
As I prepared for my Dec/jan trip, I was looking at the various parks and attractions to help me decide what parks would be part of this trip. (we went to the MK 2 days and one day each at EP , the AK and the 2 Universal parks.). So we passed on DHS and the water parks this time and why not? There's really nothing NEW at any of those in the last 5 years and more. All in the family agreed that this was the way to go for us this trip. Our first "half day" we went to Disney springs as there is much new and different things there instead of a half day at DHS or a water park.
As we went around the parks, you can't help but think sometimes "is that thing still here"? Thoughts like "Haven't they got their money out of tomorrowland speedway yet?" or "Do I really want to spend 45 minutes on ellen's energy adventure again?". On one of the busiest days of the year at midday, the Tiki Birds show at MK is not close to full and many that are in the room are in there just because it has chairs and AC.
You can't keep raising prices without offering new things that people will see as justifying paying more. Of course many of the older things become classics but not all that is old is classic. the "pay more get less" model isn't going to work when you have competitors.

 

[poppinspenguins]

Here's a continuing theme I'm noticing in threads like this, where the conversation shifts from the original point to Disney the Conglomerate vs. the Average Joe. Before I start, I should say that Disney should not be cutting CM hours and other cost saving measures at a time when they are seeing new records - so, yes, I get that and it should be fixed quickly. With that being said:

Everyone wants low crowds and low prices - well, you have to pick one. Those of you complaining about the price going up, are you willing to deal with capacity crowds every single day of the year if they stay the same? It is Disney's purpose to price people out of the market so they are not dealing with capacity crowds all the time. Yes, they are a business - they want to squeeze every nickel out of people that they are willing to pay and they want to keep them on property so they're not visiting one of the unaffiliated parks. At the same time, they don't want a peak season and low season - they want more stability for the overall vacation experience, but no one wants to be there with capacity crowds. Sure, it's tolerable during Easter and Christmas, but this would not be a repeat vacation destination for thousands if everyday was like Christmas Day (with more heat and fewer perks). So yes, Disney is trying to price their vacations so high that they not only keep up with the demand, but stay slightly ahead of it.

So - in a very simplistic view - if you want low crowds, you quite literally have to pay for it.

This is conradicting.

People are clearly paying more...and in exchange Disney is giving less.

If the waterparks were open longer with the very hefty price they would have smaller crowds. Instead the are open shorter hours still with a high price. High price + Less hours + higher crowds. Only winner is Disney wallet.

Customer/company relationship has to be win/win. When that is no longer true the company will lose customers. I think Disney is betting that they have an endless supply willing to replace those that they have lost...most of them not repeat visitors (or at least not frequent)

 

[dr2004]

If they had the customers to justify keeping the water parks open until midnight they would be open until midnight. Disney is not a magical wish granting place like we want to think it is..it is a public traded company scared to death that cord cutting is going to kill ESPN, the old golden goose. And ESPN has some enormous bills coming due in the next decade with no real NFL impact games to save them like the other networks have.

I am sure there are bean counters walking around Disney World right now noting if a funnel cake stand has no foot traffic, if a ride is running at 5% capacity, etc.

I get they are making record profits, but sadly for us as frequent visitors and the reason for cutbacks, is that future earnings have a ton of pressure. They are clearly belt tightening and there is no such thing as a loss leader anymore at WDW. Free entertainment? Slashed to high heaven. A park closing late and not profiting? Hours cut. And the more they cut without an impact to attendance….the worse it will get.

.

 

[mom2rtk]

If they had the customers to justify keeping the water parks open until midnight they would be open until midnight. Disney is not a magical wish granting place like we want to think it is..it is a public traded company scared to death that cord cutting is going to kill ESPN, the old golden goose. And ESPN has some enormous bills coming due in the next decade with no real NFL impact games to save them like the other networks have.

I am sure there are bean counters walking around Disney World right now noting if a funnel cake stand has no foot traffic, if a ride is running at 5% capacity, etc.

I get they are making record profits, but sadly for us as frequent visitors and the reason for cutbacks, is that future earnings have a ton of pressure. They are clearly belt tightening and there is no such thing as a loss leader anymore at WDW. Free entertainment? Slashed to high heaven. A park closing late and not profiting? Hours cut. And the more they cut without an impact to attendance….the worse it will get.

.

But we don't know they're only cutting things running at 5% capacity. What if it's 10%? 20%? We have no idea whether they're using a reasonable standard and cutting true fat or if they are cutting meat.

And what exactly is "free entertainment" in parks that cost $100 or more per day to enter?

 

[Slapshot1188]

If they had the customers to justify keeping the water parks open until midnight they would be open until midnight.

.

This can be your opinion but actual facts suggest otherwise. Just look at the hours cuts over spring break in the Magic Kingdom. You know, those days which are some of the most crowded of the year. You don't think there were tons of people that would be in the parks after 10PM?

This is all about greed. Iger is only on board until 2018 and he wants to make sure he squeezes every last penny he can.

 

[DOOM1001]

I agree with you New Deal. I was reading a business article today online about the recent closures at DHS and how Universal is catching up as far as attendance. This is from that article:
Theme Park 2009 2014 Change
Magic Kingdom 17,233,000 19,332,000 12.2%
Epcot 10,990,000 11,454,000 4.2%
Animal Kingdom 9,590,000 10,402,000 8.5%
Hollywood Studios 9,700,000 10,312,000 6.3%
Universal Studios Florida 5,530,000 8,263,000 49.4%
Islands of Adventure 4,627,000 8,141,000 75.9%
Source: Themed Entertainment Association.

Those numbers do not reflect the past 15 months either so the "gap" is actually less than what the end of 2014 numbers indicate. Universal FL may never catch up to the MK but the other 3 are well within range especially the DHS which is losing numbers now. The addition of a new waterpark will only shorten the gaps.
I know that Disney is planning many new things but until they open, they are just construction zones. Disney has done well competing against an old Wet and Wild park with a so so location but they'll have to do better competing against a new Universal waterpark that is right in their complex. I don't think offering less hours and offering no new rides or improvements in the waterparks will be seen as doing better.
I don't think that people deciding what to do on their 4th day in town or 7th day in town really care about how much Disney is spending in China. They just care about what will be the most interesting thing for them to do while on vacation.

I've been saying it for a while now,the day Universal announces a third theme park will be the day Disney will really have to start to worry and that day is coming sooner than you'd expect.They now own land they reacquired after selling it off years ago and this land has enough space to build enough new parks,new entertainment complexes and hotels to add to all the new developments going up in the primary campus( the Volcano Bay water park and the Sapphire Falls hotel nearing completion),and that's not even mentioning what are they planning on the Wet n Wild site!!Universal builds fast and its the biggest complaint I have with Disney(aside from the greed)if Universal can go from closing day of Jaws in January 2012 to opening day of Diagon Alley 30 months later in July 2014,why can't Disney??If I wasn't as obsessed with theme parks as I am I could totally see myself not renewing my Disney AP until new additions start actually opening,DHS just came out with a new park map and with LMA and the Streets of America gone from the map the park looks like a mini park,and don't get me started on no Osborne lights for Christmas this year,I don't know when I'll get over that one.

 

[AshleeH]

Sorry but this is just plain wrong. When you have a CAPACITY problem you INCREASE hours available to your customers, you do not CUT operating hours. Most people would be willing to pay more to get more, instead we pay more to get LESS.

Disney PARKS (just Parks) made $3,000,000,000 last year.

This is pure greed. It's one thing to raise prices if you are improving or at least maintaining the value. Raising prices and cutting hours is just greed.

This is conradicting.

People are clearly paying more...and in exchange Disney is giving less.

If the waterparks were open longer with the very hefty price they would have smaller crowds. Instead the are open shorter hours still with a high price. High price + Less hours + higher crowds. Only winner is Disney wallet.

Customer/company relationship has to be win/win. When that is no longer true the company will lose customers. I think Disney is betting that they have an endless supply willing to replace those that they have lost...most of them not repeat visitors (or at least not frequent)

And if you both note, I stated that Disney is cutting hours and making profits, so that does need to be corrected and they do need to increase the number of cast members. But there is a continuing theme, not just here but across all Disney boards, that people want low costs and low crowds. You can't have both. It's impossible. You make it affordable to everyone, everyone is going to be there nonstop.

 

[pa. dad]

I've been saying it for a while now,the day Universal announces a third theme park will be the day Disney will really have to start to worry and that day is coming sooner than you'd expect.They now own land they reacquired after selling it off years ago and this land has enough space to build enough new parks,new entertainment complexes and hotels to add to all the new developments going up in the primary campus( the Volcano Bay water park and the Sapphire Falls hotel nearing completion),and that's not even mentioning what are they planning on the Wet n Wild site!!Universal builds fast and its the biggest complaint I have with Disney(aside from the greed)if Universal can go from closing day of Jaws in January 2012 to opening day of Diagon Alley 30 months later in July 2014,why can't Disney??If I wasn't as obsessed with theme parks as I am I could totally see myself not renewing my Disney AP until new additions start actually opening,DHS just came out with a new park map and with LMA and the Streets of America gone from the map the park looks like a mini park,and don't get me started on no Osborne lights for Christmas this year,I don't know when I'll get over that one.

DOOOM
The ownership of Universal these days is Comcast, a Philly company.
Comcast's main business is cable tv and tv networks and that is not big growth. So they have to see the theme park side of their business as a real opportunity for growth and they have a lot to money to spend.
Big Harry Potter expansion into CA, new hotel and waterpark in FL, new Kong ride, new Jimmy Fallon ride and all this just after the 2 new Potter lands in the FL parks. As you say, Wet and Wild will become something else after it closes and most likely something more than an employee parking lot. They seem to be coming up with the money from some bottomless well. Their increased numbers coming into their parks feed that. Disney will need to spend to compete with them.

 

[mshanson3121]

I just noticed that July water park hours have been reduced to 10-7 PM for July. Earlier this year, the online summer water park hours were showing 9 – 8 PM so this is a recent explicit reduction.

I travel to WDW every year in July and the water parks were always open 9-8PM. Is it a big deal? Yes to me it is. It’s very hot and busy in July. Living in a cold and snowy climate, for me the highlight of my family's trip is time spent at the water parks, especially at opening when the slides are not busy. Now that opening has been pushed to 10 AM, the quite period will be reduced. I pay more and get less value.

This change, coupled with all the other recent cutbacks (during a period of record profits and attendance) have finally pushed me to declare our upcoming trip to be our final vacation to WDW.

I have been a loyal WDW visitor since 1990. A trip to WDW has never been inexpensive, but I always felt that Disney gave me value for my money. Recently, it’s all about cuts and how to extract more money from visitors. I guess it’s time to discover the rest of this country. Will I be back? Probably at some point, perhaps when Star Wars land opens. That could be a while given Disney’s recent track of taking an exceedingly long time to finish any park additions (shops excluded of course).

I would advise you to email customer relations or some of the higher ups. Their contact emails were shared awhile back on this board. The only way changes will ever be made is if enough people start complaining and stop going.

 

[Nancyg56]

And if you both note, I stated that Disney is cutting hours and making profits, so that does need to be corrected and they do need to increase the number of cast members. But there is a continuing theme, not just here but across all Disney boards, that people want low costs and low crowds. You can't have both. It's impossible. You make it affordable to everyone, everyone is going to be there nonstop.

The continuing theme I have noticed lately is that guests are fed up with a flurry of cost increases accompanied with a flurry of reduced hours and services. No one wants prices to increase, but most of us are willing to pay more if we do not have what we have been paying for removed and nothing added to replace it.

I have not seen many ask Disney to become a low price amusement park, with budget resorts that suit all levels f society, and coupons for value nights. No. I have seen people beginning to revolt lately when it comes to the rash of prices that have Ibsen steeply in regards to food, resorts, admissions, and special events tacked on, all accompanied by a reduction in operating hours, staff and services.

In the past, as crowds increased, DIsnye woudl extend the operating hours to give folks a chance to experience wha they have paid for. That will be impossible to do if hard ticket events are taking place on the mornings and evenings during peak times. Combine that loss, and it is a loss if folks have experienced this as a part of their stay during peak seasons, with the increases in ticket prices, the craziness in proposed tier tickets, proposed resort fees tacked on daily, food costs skyrocketing and you have long time guests asking what is the reason. I rather doubt this is simply crowd control.

I do think that the parks are carrying US Disney lately, and that with the overruns that Shanghai has experienced, along with the losses elsewhere, Disney is using "us" to boost their underperforming areas up. Personally, I am not a fan of that behavior. I have always paid for what I want, and have no issues paying more to keep my experiences the same. I do not want to pay more, experience less and see my hard earned money used to fund someone else's sandbox. I believe this is the common theme you are seeing, and have misunderstood the issue. Most of us understand that things cost more today than they did yesterday. We get it and are willing to pay. However.....we do nto want to pay more, experience less and walk away feeling as though we are Disney's money tree for other ventures.

 

[mshanson3121]

It appears the water parks open at 10 all summer long, and as one poster said did in 2015 as well. I think there is a better chance of them extending them later, not earlier. I think for the amount of people who want to wake up and go straight to a water park, it doesn't make business sense to open that early. I know that is why you liked it, since it was empty. But being that empty is likely why they changed the hours.

The water parks didn't open until 10:00 in June, but opened at 9:00 in July I believe (for 2015).

 

[Angel Ariel]

I'm assuming BigAlsGal is referring to a 9:00 opening. If there's only 5 cars there at 9:00, then I agree, there isn't any reason to open that early.

Adventureland and frontier land were practically empty for almost 2 hours the last time we were at wdw. Should they be kept closed until people are done with their a&e/SDMT rush in the morning? It's not unheard of for disney to only open certain rides or lands (I think dl does this during their morning magic hour), so it's not totally off base to think they could do that if they wanted to.

 

[mshanson3121]

Instead of being positive and hopeful, that one might benefit from one or the other change,

Because. There is no way to benefit from cut park and entertainment hours, reduced park employees, reduced characters, increased ticket and food prices, reduced entertainment etc... etc...
It's really nice that you want to get the devil the benefit of the doubt. It's also incredibly naive.
Disney needs to free up some cash to handle over-expenditures/losses, and they're doing whatever they have to, to get it.

 

[mshanson3121]

Don't understand why Disney would shorten the water parks by 2 hours during mid summer? I understand they have to employ CM's for the 2 extra hours but could the cost be that much that it's worth closing for those 2 extra hours?

Not with the very little that Disney pays it's employees, no.