Another current story

Whoa whoa... self defense... they CHASED HIM DOWN....what about self defense for Mr Arbery? He was not breaking the law he was jogging at 1pm on a weekend and all of a sudden he was accosted by three men in a truck with weapons. You had better believe if I was jogging and someone tried to attack me me with a gun I would fight like hell for my life.
That's a pretty poor defense. If someone has a gun and threatens you with it, and you try to get that gun away from them it is YOU practicing self defense.
If that is what happened on the video (I'm not going to watch it) Arbery was protecting himself, those men shouldn't even be allowed to enter a defense of "self defense" in that case, they gave that up when they pursued him. They were the threat. Period.
These. Anyone would run from two guys chasing them down with guns and then fought back when cornered. Even my most ardent, chest thumping, right to defend yourself friends are appalled by this incident and celebrated when these guys were arrested. There is no defense for chasing someone down and killing them when they were ZERO threat.
 
First, let's get the facts right. There were only two men in the truck.
Second, in my mind, the suspects should not have tried to chase the guy down, much less with guns.
Third, according to the two articles I read and one video story I saw, what was said/happened when the victim and the suspects met up is in doubt. Did the suspects say something to provoke Arbery into attacking them? Possibly. The piece of video (and it was only a second or two) I saw definitely showed Arbery and one of the suspects fighting, possibly over possession of the shotgun. But who attacked who? And yes, that matters in my mind.
Based on what I've seen so far, I don't see a murder charge sticking.

let’s get the facts straight.
There was a 3td man - a friend of the father/son in a car blocking Armaud in. He is videotaping.
 

If someone is threatening me with a gun, the last thing going through my mind is "oh, let me fight him for it". AND you're assuming Arbery was threatened. He might have been, but we don't know.
Really?
I’m an out of shape weak middle aged lady, but if someone point a gun at me, if I can’t hide/run away, then I’m not sure what else I’d do other than try to get the gun away from the person one way or another.
I can’t imagine fighting someone for a gun but I also can’t imagine a lot of other options in some scenarios.
 
The two men weren't law enforcement and had no business speaking or every engaging with Arbery. If they thought he as up to no good they should have called active duty law enforcement and let them handle it. They're only defense is self-defense, but I can't see how anyone could conclude that since they put themselves in the situation.
 
let’s get the facts straight.
There was a 3td man - a friend of the father/son in a car blocking Armaud in. He is videotaping.
I never said there wasn't a 3rd man. But that 3rd man was not in the truck and he didn't accost Armaud, which is what PP claimed. According to the video I saw, the guy videoing came up behind the pickup, so how did he "block Armaud in"?
Really?
I’m an out of shape weak middle aged lady, but if someone point a gun at me, if I can’t hide/run away, then I’m not sure what else I’d do other than try to get the gun away from the person one way or another.
I can’t imagine fighting someone for a gun but I also can’t imagine a lot of other options in some scenarios.
Well, they were on a street, so presumably Armaud could have run away. And if it's me, I'm going to try to talk my way out of it. As I said, the LAST thing I would do would be to attack the guy holding the gun.
 
/
And before someone claims I'm defending what these guys did, I'm not.
I agree w/PP. If they saw what they believed was a suspect, they should have called police. I'm guessing what they "saw" was a black man jogging down the road and decided to go after him.
Based solely on what I've read/seen so far (and if more information comes out, my mind can be changed), I don't think murder will stick. Maybe 3rd degree. Or negligent homicide. I'm not sure what all the options are. Should they be charged? IMO, yes. Should they be convicted? Depends on the what they're charged with.
 
I'm going to respond to a number of comments, to try to explain what appears to have happened from a legal, law-enforcement perspective. And I have to start with this one.
He was chased down while jogging for exercise and executed. He fought back the best he could. If someone held a gun on you and said they were doing a "citizen's arrest" for jogging in the neighborhood wouldn't you fight to save your life? There is no way they would have thought twice about a white person exercising outside in "their" neighborhood. And people are debating about self defense. It's sickening.
We are all at a disadvantage here because cases like this are very emotional, so we tend to respond to them emotionally. Fortunately, the law is not so emotional and there are very serious constraints on emotions in the law.

NOT ONE PERSON who has posted here is advocating in favor of the two men who killed Mr. Arbery. Nobody.

My concern in cases like this, as a retired police officer with homicide investigation experience, is that the police and prosecutors not mess up the case -- and that is easier to do than you think.

Also, when people ask, "How could they claim self-defense?" I try to explain their legal strategies. I've seen that movie before and I know how it goes.

I'm not agreeing with them. I'm just saying that is the only defense available to them.

As ordinary citizens we don't have the legal authority to drive through our town executing people. If we get into a situation where we kill someone, the only defense we can offer is self-defense. There is no other excuse for killing someone for ordinary citizens.

So understand that people here are not taking sides with the killers. We're just trying to explain some aspects of the case.
I believe the reason we didn't hear about this sooner is because the father/son duo has ties to law enforcement and the DA. Good ole boy system protected them for far too long.
One small, but important part of that statement is correct. The father had worked as an investigator (whatever than means under GA law) for the local prosecutor up until about one year ago. Because of that employer-employee relationship, the local prosecutor was conflicted out and very properly recused herself.

The case was then assigned to a prosecutor from another jurisdiction who decided not to prosecute the father and son.

Controversy ensued of course, so a third prosecutor was asked to review the case. He also decided not to arrest the two men, but said he would take the case to a grand jury.

In a few circumstances, a grand jury indictment is required. In Florida, for example, prosecutors must get a grand jury indictment to seek the death penalty. But when a prosecutor opts to refer a case to a grand jury when it is not required, that prosecutor is just using the grand jury to cover his behind.

The reason why we didn't hear about the case in February was that the controversy did not bubble up in the new media sufficiently with all the covid-19 drama. For 3 separate prosecutors to look at a case in two months is actually pretty quick.

Subsequently, of course, the Governor of GA asked the Georgia Bureau of Investigation to review the case.

They did (undoubtedly together with top prosecutors), found sufficient probable cause, and arrested the two men for Murder and Aggravated Assault yesterday
First, let's get the facts right. There were only two men in the truck.
Second, in my mind, the suspects should not have tried to chase the guy down, much less with guns.
Third, according to the two articles I read and one video story I saw, what was said/happened when the victim and the suspects met up is in doubt. Did the suspects say something to provoke Arbery into attacking them? Possibly. The piece of video (and it was only a second or two) I saw definitely showed Arbery and one of the suspects fighting, possibly over possession of the shotgun. But who attacked who? And yes, that matters in my mind.
Based on what I've seen so far, I don't see a murder charge sticking.
Sam has stated the main aspects of this case very succinctly here.

The other thing for all of us to realize here is that we have less than 1% of the facts of the case that law enforcement has. We have two news stories -- large parts of which are cut and paste from each other -- and a very short video showing parts of the end of the confrontation in very poor quality.

But the police know, for example, how many shots were actually fired, by whom, and almost certainly when, and in what order. They know how many times Mr. Arbery was hit, where, and to what effect. They know, within an inch or two, how far Mr. Arbery was from the muzzle of the guns when they were fired. That information is critical, and it is that information that GBI relied heavily on in charging the two men with murder.

Poor videos, defendants' stories, eye witness testimony, news reports, etc are not compelling in a murder investigation. In fact, they are often not even admissible in court. Physical evidence matters, and GBI has that evidence.

The defendants are going to claim self defense. But for self defense, several things are required.
  • First and foremost, you must have been acting legally. If you were acting illegally, you can't claim self defense.
  • Second, you must reasonably believe that you are in danger of death or serious bodily harm. Somebody cussing you out or running away from you is not a predicate for self defense -- you have to be in physical danger.
  • And third, the amount of force you use must be reasonable. If you are legitimately in severe danger, deadly force is permissible...but that's not a given.

.
 
Last edited:
First, let's get the facts right. There were only two men in the truck.
Second, in my mind, the suspects should not have tried to chase the guy down, much less with guns.
Third, according to the two articles I read and one video story I saw, what was said/happened when the victim and the suspects met up is in doubt. Did the suspects say something to provoke Arbery into attacking them? Possibly. The piece of video (and it was only a second or two) I saw definitely showed Arbery and one of the suspects fighting, possibly over possession of the shotgun. But who attacked who? And yes, that matters in my mind.
Based on what I've seen so far, I don't see a murder charge sticking.

Really? If two guys get out of a truck after chasing me down - I am going to FIGHT like hell.
And I am sure these two were nice and polite and said good evening sir may I have a word with you (NOT).
As far as I am concerned the father/son team provoked the entire thing. They left their house when they saw a black man -and they took guns with them.
If the roles were reversed, a black father/son would already be convicted.
 
Really? If two guys get out of a truck after chasing me down - I am going to FIGHT like hell.
And I am sure these two were nice and polite and said good evening sir may I have a word with you (NOT).
As far as I am concerned the father/son team provoked the entire thing. They left their house when they saw a black man -and they took guns with them.
If the roles were reversed, a black father/son would already be convicted.
According to the article...
The cellphone video, initially posted by a Brunswick radio station, shows a black man running at a jogging pace on the left side of a road. A truck is parked in the road ahead of him. One man is inside the pickup's bed, and another is standing beside the open driver's side door.

The runner crosses the road to pass the pickup on the passenger side, then crosses back in front of the truck.
Did Ahmaud know the truck "chased him down"? It sounds like it was stopped in front of him.
No, I don't believe whatever was said by the suspects was "nice and polite". They may (and probably did) have insulted him and/or his family. That wouldn't excuse Ahmaud from attacking them, *IF* that is what happened.
I've already said the father/son should not have left their house, much less with guns. However, that act by itself is not illegal (assuming the guns were legally owned).
If the roles were reversed, *I* would be making the same statements.
 
First, let's get the facts right. There were only two men in the truck.
Second, in my mind, the suspects should not have tried to chase the guy down, much less with guns.
Third, according to the two articles I read and one video story I saw, what was said/happened when the victim and the suspects met up is in doubt. Did the suspects say something to provoke Arbery into attacking them? Possibly. The piece of video (and it was only a second or two) I saw definitely showed Arbery and one of the suspects fighting, possibly over possession of the shotgun. But who attacked who? And yes, that matters in my mind.
Based on what I've seen so far, I don't see a murder charge sticking.
The CHASED HIM DOWN AND SHOT HIM! In what world is that not murder?
 
Based solely on what I've read/seen so far (and if more information comes out, my mind can be changed), I don't think murder will stick. Maybe 3rd degree. Or negligent homicide. I'm not sure what all the options are. Should they be charged? IMO, yes. Should they be convicted? Depends on the what they're charged with.
As I stated earlier, none of us have any facts. All we have is media reports, and those are notoriously inaccurate.

However, based on the basic sequence of events that I have seen so far, I think the aggravated assault and murder charges are appropriate.

What a jury will decide is anybody's guess
at this point...especially when we have no facts.
 
The CHASED HIM DOWN AND SHOT HIM! In what world is that not murder?
As I said in the post you quoted... "Arbery and one of the suspects were fighting. Who attacked who? And yes, that matters in my mind."
RIGHT NOW there is reasonable doubt IMO. Hopefully there is more video to clear up what physically happened. I do not expect the suspects to tell "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". Did they threaten him with the gun? Did he preemptively attack them? Did he have the option of leaving? Did they attack him?
 
As I stated earlier, none of us have any facts. All we have is media reports, and those are notoriously inaccurate.

However, based on the basic sequence of events that I have seen so far, I think the aggravated assault and murder charges are appropriate.

What a jury will decide is anybody's guess
at this point...especially when we have no facts.
And you may be right. If they're charged with murder, I wouldn't complain.
 
As I said in the post you quoted... "Arbery and one of the suspects were fighting. Who attacked who? And yes, that matters in my mind."
RIGHT NOW there is reasonable doubt IMO. Hopefully there is more video to clear up what physically happened. I do not expect the suspects to tell "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". Did they threaten him with the gun? Did he preemptively attack them? Did he have the option of leaving? Did they attack him?
There would have been NO fight if they hadn't gotten in their pickup truck (with weapons) and CHASED HIM DOWN!
 
As I said in the post you quoted... "Arbery and one of the suspects were fighting. Who attacked who? And yes, that matters in my mind."
RIGHT NOW there is reasonable doubt IMO. Hopefully there is more video to clear up what physically happened. I do not expect the suspects to tell "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". Did they threaten him with the gun? Did he preemptively attack them? Did he have the option of leaving? Did they attack him?
You are the type of juror that the defense is praying for.
 












Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE














DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest

Back
Top