Annual Passes at Disney World

[HopperFan]

I just don't understand why Disney continues to miscalculate the value that the annual passes have to some guests.

That is an assumption. Disney might have determined that is the value point that keeps the number of AP holders that generate the additional income they want. We've seen here that many have said they are not going to renew their AP with the new increases - a direct indication that AP's are peaking in their value to guests.

AP's are not for guests to come as often as they want - that is obvious in the limited number of park reservations they can get. If they are reserving at the last minute because they are local, they are getting in because Disney wants more guests that day. AP's are the baseline of income for Disney (example of an escrow account) that Disney is guaranteed in the good and bad times. AP's are the first step in generating more income as AP holders book hotels, book dining, spend on upsells, spend on merchandise on an ongoing basis - all of which are very overpriced and where profits come from. AP's are what keeps things healthy in poor economic times. APs are committed to WDW where there is lots of competition.

It is a private company and as such would attempt to extract as much money as they can from guests that show up at the parks 40+ times per year.

When I had the top AP I was traveling to WDW 4-6 weeks per year for a total of 40-ish days so I guess you are talking about me. Yes, my per day ticket cost was around $25. But I was also staying in overpriced Disney hotels, paying for overpriced food, paying for lots of upsells, buying merchandise etc. One reason Disney has high occupancy rates is many AP guests stay there. My AP discount was often less than General Public discounts so I tended to use those. So as a hotel guest I was not different. In the end they probably got the same amount of money from me as they did non-AP guests because I had the "extra" money to spend.

Now I have the lowest Florida Resident AP. But like many other FL Residents have other ticket media. Universal AP (which I used reducing my WDW days), some have SeaWorld AP, I'm heading to Discovery Cove one trip (not WDW at all). While a LOCAL Pixie Dust AP might be closer - they still have very limited park reservations and they usually spend less time in the parks. They eat dinner, they buy drinks, they patronize the bars, they shop, they might float a lazy river and ride a few rides. They bring that steady cash without impacting park operations as much. Money in the bank.

Disney works the math constantly to see what price point guarantees them the extra income which is the important part. They likely only need 3 passes; Pixie, Sorcerer and Incredi Pass BUT I bet they found there the Pirate was a price point that many could accept with restrictions they could accept. Easy money.

I think they might be guilty of underestimating demand with current climate, which is why we are seeing some kind of cap system on sales.

WDW can not be compared to DL though. Two completely different types of customer.

The current pricing structure does nothing to discourage heavy use of the pass.

There is no public data to support this.

 

[lanejudy]

WDW can not be compared to DL though. Two completely different types of customer.

THIS ^^^ and it's important to keep in mind that Disney has not necessarily treated annual passes in Florida the same as the current Magic Keys in California. While recent events may carry some degree of "warnings" to potentially keep in mind, expecting WDW to be similar to DLR is a very big assumption --- one that may or may not be accurate.

 

[Jrb1979]

THIS ^^^ and it's important to keep in mind that Disney has not necessarily treated annual passes in Florida the same as the current Magic Keys in California. While recent events may carry some degree of "warnings" to potentially keep in mind, expecting WDW to be similar to DLR is a very big assumption --- one that may or may not be accurate.

Yes and no. I expect there to be limited availability same as DL.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Yes and no. I expect there to be limited availability same as DL.

I agree.

There may also be no advance announcement.
They might use a virtual queue with the website app. Disney has an affinity for virtual queues - like for rides.
It could sell out in hours.

DLR CMs were telling people in stuck queues to start over and not to worry -- that the sale would go on for a while. Obviously, the CMs interfacing with the public were not fully informed of the situation. No one was trained. When the sale shut down, no matter how heart-rending the story, there was no CM authority to grant Pixie Dust as there had been in the previous history of the passes. The CMs did not have access to control anything.

While DLR and WDW may be different, the common factor is Disney,

IMHO, it will definitely not be the same experience as September 8, 2021 to November 21, 2022 when the character passes first went on sale. There won't be a leisurely number of weeks or months to buy the passes. Most people with tickets will not be able to get to the parks to trade them in for upgrades. At that time, except for the metals passes (platinum, gold etc.) that they had outstanding, they were selling the entire first inventory -- possibly unlimited like in 2019 -- until the litigation happened and Disney learned they might not be able to use park ressies as a management tool to short passholder buckets to manage the percentage of passholders in the crowd. So, their only alternative to that -- during the litigation, -- was to restrict the number of passes they distributed. It appears they are holding fairly firm line on that. It is consistent with Mr. Chapek saying he would not bend on increasing the caps on park attendance (because with lower density crowds, both ticketed and passholder guests spend more per person per day.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I'm not sure what you are even saying .... it sounds like you think there should be no Annual Passes just because there are people coming who would not or could not buy them. Annual Passes exist because they are good for Disney.

No APs would be a dealbreaker for us. Purchasing each visit by the week would be a ridiculous waste of money. IMO We purchased enough DVC points to visit 3 times a year.

 

[subtchr]

What do we know?

• 
  
• The passholder will receive an e-mail inviting renewal when the renewal window begins.

A minor point, but in my 6 years of having an AP (sorry, but "character passes" isn't going to happen here...), I've never received an email prompting me to renew. I just know when to do so.

Although I understand how different the Magic Key "culture" at DL is compared to APs at WDW, I believe when Disney does offer APs for sale again, the demand will be very strong, and they will sell out quickly as Magic Keys did. Of course we will see when it happens.

I get MORE than enough use out of my out of state AP, but I have an unusual personal situation. I work for a company that creates trips for high school music groups, so I am paid to visit WDW 8-10 times a year for work, and I add 1-3 times for fun, since my admission is already paid for. My company loves that I have an AP, because they save money compared to buying me a ticket for each trip. I expense my renewal cost until I reach what I paid (usually 3-4 trips), then trips after that save the company money.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

I always get a email to renew my pass

 

[WEDWDW]

What do we know?

• Prices were recently increased.
• The top three tiers (Incredi-Pass, Sorcerer and Pirate) are still unavailable for new sales.
• New passes are dated with an expiration of December 31, 2099 until first use. Then the 1 year for use begins. An expiration date runs 1 year from the date of first use.
• First use is first park entry or first use on an annual passholder discount.
• APs can be used on the date it expires.
• A renewed pass runs for 1 year from the previous pass's expiration date.
• The renewal window starts 60 days before the expiration date and ends 30 days after the expiration date. (This is not like Disneyland.)
• The passholder will receive an e-mail inviting renewal when the renewal window begins.
• A passholder can renew into any pass (upgrade or downgrade) for which they are eligible, even if that pass is not presently being sold. For example, for an out of state passholder who is not a blue card DVC owner, the only AP choice is the Incredi-pass, so that is all that will be offered. DVC Blue Card Owners must call DVC member services to have their eligibility verified and then they are passed to the passholder line for purchases. Then they can purchase the Sorcerer pass. There is no DVC discounted pass; just eligibility for the Sorcerer. The Sorcerer blocks Thanksgiving and Christmas so it is different than the Incredi-pass. A Florida resident can renew into any of the four pass types at the renewal rate then in effect.
• Renewal rates have been 15% less than the posted prices for new passes. Only Florida residents can pay a down payment and then have monthly payments. There is a 6.5% local sales tax.
• If a Florida passholder is making monthly payments and renews at the 60 day point before expiration, they will have two monthly payments for two months at the beginning. However, months 11 and 12 on the renewed annual pass will not have monthly payments for that pass.
• Park reservations cannot be made using an AP as the admission media for a date after expiration. So, either renew (so there is another current admission media) or buy tickets and then upgrade the tickets before the last day expires towards the cost of the next annual pass.
• If a passholder lets an annual pass expire without renewal, it may be difficult to obtain another annual pass.
• It appears Disney has capped the number of annual passes distributed. When passholders do not renew, that pass spot goes back into Disney's inventory to sell again at a later time. When Disney does resume sales, there may be zero advance notice and the window of sales may be just hours until they have sold out.
• If passes go on sale again, an existing pass can be upgraded. If it has not had first use on a brand new pass, the entire amount will be credited towards the upgrade. If the old pass being upgraded has not been used, it will begin on the date of upgrade. If it is a prior renewal pass or it has had a first use, then Disney will upgrade and the passholder pays the difference, but the upgraded pass will be back-dated to start to match the pass that was turned in for updating.

I will just add one thing to your great list:

There used to be really cool Events for Passholders occasionally and little gifts occasionally as well.

Now all we get are MAGNETS!!!!LOL

 

[lovethattink]

I renewed my Sorcerer pass yesterday. I didn’t receive an email that it was time to renew. In MDE, like last year, there is a note saying “Thank you for renewing. Your new pass will appear after your current pass expires.” It does appear, but no expiration shows, and it’s giving 5 park reservations, starting Dec 2. And my pass expiring Dec 1, also has 5 park reservations up to the expiration date. So atm, I can make 10 park reservations until Dec 1, then back to 5 since only the new pass would be valid.

The Sorcerer renewal was $813. FL resident renewal rate.

Most likely our last year as an AP, we are priced out. If my son wasn’t an influencer needing material, we probably wouldn’t have renewed this year.

 

[Disneylover99]

I always get a email to renew my pass

I’ve never received an email to renew, but then again I’ve never received any email for any AP special offers. I’ve always chalked it up to being from a different country, but I don’t really know for sure if that’s the reason.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

I’ve never received an email to renew, but then again I’ve never received any email for any AP special offers. I’ve always chalked it up to being from a different country, but I don’t really know for sure if that’s the reason.

Okay. Good feedback on this. I will edit so it says "may or may not" get an email.
Thanks!

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

"... I think they might be guilty of underestimating demand with current climate, which is why we are seeing some kind of cap system on sales."

I came to a different opinion. Chapek said they limited the number of annual passes distributed when talking about their new methods of managing crowd size. Taken within the context of that interview, he related it to crowd size control. He has also talked about managing a favorable attendance mix. Disney only wants a smaller percentage of passholders in the crowd because of their data on the amount of spend rate per guest per day. Ticket holders spend more. So, they want fewer passholders and more ticketed guests.

Disney is not interested in satisfying the demand for APs at any price level.

Disney absolutely knows the demand for annual passes is far greater than the number of the cap they allow to be sold. They didn't underestimate this. They wanted to cut the number of annual passes by about 50%. So, they know that when the gathered up non-renewal slots go on sale once in a while (probably annually) the sale will only last a few hours. They are just re-selling the non-renewed passes.

I also think I am observing that it is to Disney's benefit to keep the FOMO going on annual passes and to be very coy about when and how many they will sell in order to keep the DVC prices up. So, Disney wants everybody to think that sales of new annual passes is just "paused" for a short time and will be back. Not happening. I think they firmly limited the cap. That cap probably will not be raised during a recession because recessions are generally shorter than the "lifespan" of an annual pass plus it's normal cycle of renewals (maybe 10 years or more) and because they like having smaller than max capacity crowds. They found the sweet spot of attendance where guests spend more per day if the crowd is lower and they linger in the shops. That crowd level is what they call "quality of experience." which translates to higher spend rate per guest.

 

[SL6827]

I call it now, at some point in the future, DVC-Direct purchasers will get first dibs on new AP purchases.

 

[Aimeedyan]

Neither of us have ever gotten an email to renew (and we both get all the emails).

 

[rdaky]

Disney works the math constantly to see what price point guarantees them the extra income which is the important part. They likely only need 3 passes; Pixie, Sorcerer and Incredi Pass BUT I bet they found there the Pirate was a price point that many could accept with restrictions they could accept. Easy money.

We have the Pirate passes plus waterpark and for us it made sense. I would not be surprised if we are in the minority with that pass, but we love it.

That said, hopefully without offending anyone out of State, I actually do not know if there is high value FOR DISNEY to have out of state non-DVC Annual Passes. I guarantee that Disney crunches those numbers. Yes, there are out of State APs who stay in the deluxe resorts with table service every day. But there are also APs who are spending less and coming maybe twice per year, staying off property. The highest value for Disney is to charge regular ticket prices. The local AP is a different kind of value. Most are not the big spenders staying at the GF. But popping in at the last minute and spending money on dinner a coffee, and a new shirt, multiplied by how many locals they allow in that day at the last minute, becomes instant cash flow. I don't know if that is a huge value for Disney, either, but I bet there is a reason that benefits Disney that they are still making the local Pixie pass available.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Iger's return is a game changer. All of Chapek's verbal clues to the media are now no longer reliably in play. It is impossible to predict what will happen with WDW annual passes now. So, head's up. We are going to have to watch more closely.

A curious coincidence: It was exactly 1 year from the time Chapek made the decision to pause sales of WDW annual passes to the date he stepped down as CEO.

 

[Jrb1979]

Iger's return is a game changer. All of Chapek's verbal clues to the media are now no longer reliably in play. It is impossible to predict what will happen with WDW annual passes now. So, head's up. We are going to have to watch more closely.

A curious coincidence: It was exactly 1 year from the time Chapek made the decision to pause sales of WDW annual passes to the date he stepped down as CEO.

I don't think it changes anything. Iger was brought back to fix D+ and the studios side.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

I don't think it changes anything. Iger was brought back to fix D+ and the studios side.

I haven't read anything about that. I have a busy day today though. Thanksgiving shopping and prep. Have fun.

 

[SL6827]

I don't think it changes anything. Iger was brought back to fix D+ and the studios side.

This. Park reservations, higher prices, park hopping BS, ect. are not going anywhere at all.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

I don't think it changes anything. Iger was brought back to fix D+ and the studios side.

I have a different opinion, but it is just my opinion.
I think the sudden departure of Chapek (after they renewed his contract in June for 3 years), the sluggish performance of Disney in the stock markets, the lackluster performance of Disney studios, milking the parks like a golden goose and the public dissatisfaction made them ripe for a potential hostile takeover.

Apparently there was even a study to see how much it would take.

American companies are often targets in the international corporate raider scene.

They are not out of the woods yet, even with appointing Iger as CEO.