Annual Passes at Disney World

[Ms Bibbidi]

A thread for annual passes at Disney World in Florida.

 

[randumb0]

What about them?

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

What do we know?

• Prices were recently increased.
• The top three tiers (Incredi-Pass, Sorcerer and Pirate) are still unavailable for new sales.
• Upon online purchase of a brand new, first time pass, the new passholder receives a "Pass Certificate." (This term comes straight from the 10 page confirmation e-mail from Disney, page 2.) Pass Certificates are dated with an expiration of December 31, 2099. First use changes the expiration date (and changes it into an active, "annual pass). Then the 1 year for use begins. An expiration date runs 1 year from the date of first use.
• First use is first park entry or first use on an annual passholder discount.
• APs can be used on the date it expires.
• A renewed pass runs for 1 year from the previous pass's expiration date.
• The renewal window starts 60 days before the expiration date and ends 30 days after the expiration date. (This is not like Disneyland.)
• The passholder may or may not receive an e-mail inviting renewal when the renewal window begins.
• A passholder can presently renew into any pass (upgrade or downgrade) for which they are eligible, even if that pass is not presently being sold. For example, for an out of state passholder who is not a blue card DVC owner, the only AP choice is the Incredi-pass, so that is all that will be offered. DVC Blue Card Owners must call DVC member services to have their eligibility verified and then they are passed to the passholder line for purchases. Then they can purchase the Sorcerer pass. There is no DVC discounted pass; just eligibility for the Sorcerer. The Sorcerer blocks Thanksgiving and Christmas so it is different than the Incredi-pass. A Florida resident can renew into any of the four pass types at the renewal rate then in effect.
• Renewal rates have been 15% less than the posted prices for new passes. Only Florida residents can pay a down payment and then have monthly payments. There is a 6.5% local sales tax.
• If a Florida passholder is making monthly payments and renews at the 60 day point before expiration, they will have two monthly payments for two months at the beginning. However, months 11 and 12 on the renewed annual pass will not have monthly payments for that pass.
• Park reservations cannot be made using an AP as the admission media for a date after expiration. So, either renew (so there is another current admission media) or buy tickets and then upgrade the tickets before the last day expires towards the cost of the next annual pass.
• If a passholder lets an annual pass expire without renewal, it may be difficult to obtain another annual pass.
• It appears Disney has capped the number of annual passes distributed. When passholders do not renew, that pass spot goes back into Disney's inventory to sell again at a later time. When Disney does resume sales, there may be zero advance notice and the window of sales may be just hours until they have sold out.
• If passes go on sale again, an existing pass can be upgraded. If it has not had first use on a brand new pass, the entire amount will be credited towards the upgrade. If the old pass being upgraded has not been used, it will begin on the date of upgrade. If it is a prior renewal pass or it has had a first use, then Disney will upgrade and the passholder pays the difference, but the upgraded pass will be back-dated to start to match the pass that was turned in for updating.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

For purposes of "lessons learned in the event new annual pass sales for WDW resume soon, here is the report of what happened with Magic Keys this week at DLR.

The DLR (Disneyland/California Adventure) parks resumed sales of three tiers of their Magic Keys on November 16, 2022. They sold at park ticket kiosks and through a virtual queue in the online application. There was no prior notice.

Social media picked it up and announced it. The lines at the ticket kiosks were very long. The online queue warned that being in the queue did not guarantee the opportunity to purchase a Magic Key. Towards the end, there was information that inventory was running low. The way the queue worked is the person was advised they were in the queue. When it was their turn, they were notified. Then they had 10 minutes to enter the next page and make their purchase. Some people waited over 13 hours in the virtual queue online. Some people got as far as having the Magic Keys in the check-out basket and were unable to complete the sale when the sale ended. The keys were sold out very quickly.

There were reports that some of the virtual lines crashed. People who had been waiting were knocked offline.
There are reports that the virtual queue was hacked. The links to skip the virtual queue line and line jump were posted online.
https://www.disneydining.com/hack-to-bypass-queue-for-buying-disneyland-annual-passes-js1/

The sale opened at 9:00 a.m. Pacific on Wednesday, November 16, 2022.
The Believe Key sold out Thursday, November 17, 2022 at about 11:00 a.m. Pacific.
The Imagine Key (lowest level) sold out Thursday, November 17, 2022 at about 1:00 p.m. Pacific.
The Inspire Key (highest tier) sold out Thursday, November 17, 2022 at about 4:32 p.m. Pacific.
The whole sale lasted 31 hours 32 minutes.

The DLR sale did not impact their renewals.

There may be things passholders at WDW can watch for and plan for if sales of new APs resume at WDW.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

What about them?

You were too quick!

I was writing. A summary of where we are with WDW APs and comparing some things to the DLR Magic Key sales this week.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

I wanted to preserve the information that the online virtual queue for the Magic Key sales was hacked. It may make a difference in how WDW AP passholders handle things should our APs go on sale.

That information was in a Disneyland category thread so I put it where the WDW passholders might see it.

 

[MillauFr]

The Disneyland AP debacle is just another example on how Disney seems unwilling to price their product at a level where demand and supply are in balance.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

The Disneyland AP debacle is just another example on how Disney seems unwilling to price their product at a level where demand and supply are in balance.

MillauFr, I have noticed your posts on this on different threads. That is certainly a fair economic theory. Of course, Disney might face some bad press if they did that so it has complications.

I am curious, just for fun, what do you think that price point would be for a parkhopper annual pass that includes parking and discounts but no add-ons? Say a Sorcerer pass. At what point would it not sell-out but stay below their cap. Let's say the cap is about 500,000 passholders about evenly divided among the 4 types of passes.

 

[scrappinginontario]

To avoid confusion as this is the Walt Disney World in FL portion of DISboards, please ensure it is FL passes being discussed.

Thanks

 

[MillauFr]

MillauFr, I have noticed your posts on this on different threads. That is certainly a fair economic theory. Of course, Disney might face some bad press if they did that so it has complications.

I am curious, just for fun, what do you think that price point would be for a parkhopper annual pass that includes parking and discounts but no add-ons? Say a Sorcerer pass. At what point would it not sell-out but stay below their cap. Let's say the cap is about 500,000 passholders about evenly divided among the 4 types of passes.

I think all of the annual passes as they are currently structured are inequitable and unfair for most park guests. Disney seems obligated to offer them due to inertia. A few park guests that are heavy users are getting an extremely good deal. Other guests that are going for a once in a lifetime trip are getting ripped off. In a perfect world these inequities would be balanced out a bit more. Of course Disney is a private corporation and has no obligation other than worrying about public reaction to care.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

I think all of the annual passes as they are currently structured are inequitable and unfair for most park guests. Disney seems obligated to offer them due to inertia. A few park guests that are heavy users are getting an extremely good deal. Other guests that are going for a once in a lifetime trip are getting ripped off. In a perfect world these inequities would be balanced out a bit more. Of course Disney is a private corporation and has no obligation other than worrying about public reaction to care.

Well, Christine McCarthy, CFO has talked about "flexibility" for Disney. It is likely some changes are in the works. Thanks for the response, MillauFr.

 

[Littlelulu01]

I just renewed our December 4 expiration dvc sorcerer passes. I was on the fence as there’s a chance we’ll not use. In the past if an ap renewal was not activated prior to expiration, I could pay difference and use it towards a subsequent year new AP. I was told that the new pass renewal doesn’t need in person activation and will just roll over to the new year when old pass expires. If not used during the year, it automatically expires unused. No more parking it to reactivate towards a new ap a year later if plans change. Will be thousands of wasted $ if we can’t get to wdw next year. A little frustrated with such strict rules. We had two trips we had to cancel at the last moment this year because someone in our party got COVID. Thankfully the Airlines have been much more flexible but dvc points and ap’s potentially go to waste when following their rules on not visiting the parks sick.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

I just renewed our December 4 expiration dvc sorcerer passes. I was on the fence as there’s a chance we’ll not use. In the past if an ap renewal was not activated prior to expiration, I could pay difference and use it towards a subsequent year new AP. I was told that the new pass renewal doesn’t need in person activation and will just roll over to the new year when old pass expires. If not used during the year, it automatically expires unused. No more parking it to reactivate towards a new ap a year later if plans change. Will be thousands of wasted $ if we can’t get to wdw next year. A little frustrated with such strict rules. We had two trips we had to cancel at the last moment this year because someone in our party got COVID. Thankfully the Airlines have been much more flexible but dvc points and ap’s potentially go to waste when following their rules on not visiting the parks sick.

So, make sure I have this right please.

A "new" AP that never has a "first use" but is more than a year from the purchase date cannot be activated as an annual pass, but the passholder can get the value of it applied towards a new pass (if they are for sale) and pay the difference.

A renewed AP (would automatically begin at the end of the old pass) that goes more than 30 days beyond the expiration (so it can no longer be renewed) then it just expires and the holder no longer has passholder status.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

That reminds me. I have a question. Can WDW character passes be used for parking or discounts on days that are blocked out?

 

[HopperFan]

I think all of the annual passes as they are currently structured are inequitable and unfair for most park guests. Disney seems obligated to offer them due to inertia. A few park guests that are heavy users are getting an extremely good deal. Other guests that are going for a once in a lifetime trip are getting ripped off. In a perfect world these inequities would be balanced out a bit more. Of course Disney is a private corporation and has no obligation other than worrying about public reaction to care.

I'm not sure what you are even saying .... it sounds like you think there should be no Annual Passes just because there are people coming who would not or could not buy them. Annual Passes exist because they are good for Disney.

 

[MillauFr]

I'm not sure what you are even saying .... it sounds like you think there should be no Annual Passes just because there are people coming who would not or could not buy them. Annual Passes exist because they are good for Disney.

I just don't understand why Disney continues to miscalculate the value that the annual passes have to some guests. It is a private company and as such would attempt to extract as much money as they can from guests that show up at the parks 40+ times per year. The current pricing structure does nothing to discourage heavy use of the pass.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Three of the four AP tiers are limited to Florida residents (and the DVC blue card for the Sorcerer).
It appears Disney intends to favor those who are geographically close and can use the passes at those frequencies.
Disney chose to put a restriction of 3 to 5 park reservations so that is a limit on the use.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think all of the annual passes as they are currently structured are inequitable and unfair for most park guests. Disney seems obligated to offer them due to inertia. A few park guests that are heavy users are getting an extremely good deal. Other guests that are going for a once in a lifetime trip are getting ripped off. In a perfect world these inequities would be balanced out a bit more. Of course Disney is a private corporation and has no obligation other than worrying about public reaction to care.

It's up to the guests to get their money's worth. I have never thought it was worth it for our of state guests as unless you multiple times a year you would rarely get your money's worth.

 

[Littlelulu01]

So, make sure I have this right please.

A "new" AP that never has a "first use" but is more than a year from the purchase date cannot be activated as an annual pass, but the passholder can get the value of it applied towards a new pass (if they are for sale) and pay the difference.

A renewed AP (would automatically begin at the end of the old pass) that goes more than 30 days beyond the expiration (so it can no longer be renewed) then it just expires and the holder no longer has passholder status.

Sorry. Hard to articulate the specifics. From what I’ve experienced the second part of your reply is correct.

We had unactivated wdw ap renewal passes pre COVID. We finally got to use them last December. Disney was really cool and activated our long expired gold pass renewal certificates to new sorcerer passes with memory maker and didn’t even make us pay new pass price.

We used those passes for one trip and had plans for a couple more trips in 2022 but got sick and had to cancel. Did make it back for Halloween so we ended up getting our $ worth.

In years past ap renewals got parked with an expiration date of some far away date. Everyone had to go in person to prove their dvc eligibility and then get the renewal activated. If we skipped a year, the renewal certificates could be used towards a new ap as long as we hadn’t activated them. I’m told the new certificates no longer need activation. They’re automatically going to start as soon as the old ones expire and if never used during their year they’ll expire unused or so I was told when renewing them. So it’s a gamble to renew if like our family lives across the country and is lucky to get 2 trips in a year. We renewed just because I’d probably kick myself if I let them expire.

 

[MillauFr]

It's up to the guests to get their money's worth. I have never thought it was worth it for our of state guests as unless you multiple times a year you would rarely get your money's worth.

We live in Seattle and are at Disneyland 20 - 25 days per year. We are getting a pretty cushy deal with the annual passes. Now if Alaska Airlines could expand their flight annual passes to Washington State we would be there even more. Currently they are only offering annual passes for flights that start and end in California, Nevada, and Arizona.