Annual Pass Rumors??

[Jrb1979]

No, it was intentionally created to control passholder access and especially to deter local passholders. There are many facts about Disney’s response and behavior before and even after this was made clear to them that support my conclusory statement.

They have even stated many times that pass holders are on the bottom of the list in terms of guests they want at the parks.

I still maintain Disney could have saved themselves at the beginning by limiting sales.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

It's because WDW did the same thing. I had a Gold pass for 2020/2021. Bought BEFORE the reservation system went into place. Was only allowed to book 3 reservations ahead of time (I'm out of state and was down for 10 days or so). After I used my first day I could then book another day. When I used the next reservation I was UNABLE to book another yet others could still book. My family was LOCKED OUT of going even though there was still availability in the park and was not a block out day.

Disney needs to ditch the stupid reservation system in it's entirety. There is NO NEED for reservations for 340 days of the year!

Agreed. The reservation system is absurd. Any park in the country that used it when they first reopened has stopped it. No other kept it permanent that I’m aware of.

AP aren’t the only ones mad. There are regular guests who can’t even book 5 day park trip over a 10 day period if any 1 of those 10 days is unavailable in all 4 parks. Don’t think there’s any grounds for any kind of lawsuit in their case but it’s a bad look for Disney. I wish they’d get more bad press and public push back on this over things like that to the point they chock the whole mess.

 

[Disneychick13]

If they don’t want annual pass holders at the parks, then they shouldn’t have annual passes. If you are local, or close to local, and you can do very spontaneous day trips, then it really sucks. You have to just make reservations on random days that you “might” go (up to the max number of days you can). I mean it’s bad enough that you have the limitations on park hopping, but the reservation system is truly awful for annual passholders. I think they need to toss the reservation system and bring back annual passes. Limit the sales maybe, but don’t “block out” days that people can go.

 

[john7994]

If they don’t want annual pass holders at the parks, then they shouldn’t have annual passes. If you are local, or close to local, and you can do very spontaneous day trips, then it really sucks. You have to just make reservations on random days that you “might” go (up to the max number of days you can). I mean it’s bad enough that you have the limitations on park hopping, but the reservation system is truly awful for annual passholders. I think they need to toss the reservation system and bring back annual passes. Limit the sales maybe, but don’t “block out” days that people can go.

So am I missing something? The Park Reservation System approach was implemented in June/July of 2020. If you renewed or purchased your AP after that date - isn't that on the person making the decision if that works for them? We have kind of lapped the annual renewal cycle at this point right?

 

[PepperjackDragon]

So am I missing something? The Park Reservation System approach was implemented in June/July of 2020. If you renewed or purchased your AP after that date - isn't that on the person making the decision if that works for them? We have kind of lapped the annual renewal cycle at this point right?

Yes, it would appear you are. The implementation described in the previous post makes clear that this is a ridiculous position to take that nobody would accept for themselves, only when sticking it to other people.

 

[PepperjackDragon]

No, it was intentionally created to control passholder access and especially to deter local passholders. There are many facts about Disney’s response and behavior before and even after this was made clear to them that support my conclusory statement.

I agree that is how it was implemented, my point is that the concept itself is reasonable and natural as a logistical management tool-as they like to call it-but the implementation was as you describe. Hence my suspicion the initial proposal was reasonable, and the corrupted by greed.

 

[sheilafri]

If they don’t want annual pass holders at the parks, then they shouldn’t have annual passes. If you are local, or close to local, and you can do very spontaneous day trips, then it really sucks. You have to just make reservations on random days that you “might” go (up to the max number of days you can). I mean it’s bad enough that you have the limitations on park hopping, but the reservation system is truly awful for annual passholders. I think they need to toss the reservation system and bring back annual passes. Limit the sales maybe, but don’t “block out” days that people can go.

Conversely, if a local has an AP and wants to pop in last minute to a park the reservation system works great for Disney as it directs the AP holder to the park of Disney’s choosing.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[sheilafri]

It is worse than that for locals. Say I buy the Pixi-pass because it is available to FL residents. Three reservations. But, in a year, I can renew into the Incredi-pass so I can have the weekends and all the holidays. I like Disney World at Christmas too! We don't get much seasonal change in Florida so being around all the Christmas decorations makes it feel more like a holiday. The candlelight processional is also a seasonal tradition. Walt said to leave it in -- that's why they still have it.

So, assume I get to renew to the Incredi-pass and I get five reservations and I am not staying in the resorts. I go home at night -- under an hour drive. So, I am limited to five reservations -- year round. No extra dates for staying in a resort. It is May. I know that Christmas is a very busy time so I want to snag some reservations at several parks during Thanksgiving and Christmas. I also want the 4th of July and Halloween etc. You get the picture. I need to scoop them up before the people from international countries and other states (who maybe only spend 10 days in the parks per year and plan ahead to do it for Christmas) get all of them and they are unavailable to further passholder reservations. But the out of state, international and DVC owners will mostly be staying on property -- so they not only get their five reservations -- they ALSO get length of stay reservations just by staying in their DVC or hotel property. ONLY the local who goes home at night and has to live with the crowds and tourists year round is limited to 3, 4 or 5 measly reservations. So, I pick : 1. 4th of July. 2. Halloween. 3. Thanksgiving or that weekend. 4. Christmas shopping a few days before Christmas. 5. Christmas Day to have a special Christmas dinner (no family nearby). But, I want more. I want several parks during those times. I also want 6. New Year's Eve? 7. Spring Garden Show? 8. Easter? 9. Food and Wine Festival? etc. But, now I have used ALL of my reservations and haven't covered it all. It is May! So, for $1,299 plus tax, I get 5 maybe guaranteed days -- but only if I schedule far enough out so as to disable all the in-between days! Does this mean that if I plan ahead ( right now the calendar is out to January 2024) that I might only be able to be sure of 5 reservation days in all of that time! Oh, I cannot make a reservation beyond my pass expiration date! It is all about planning far enough ahead -- and to do that automatically throttles the local or off-site passholder. It isn't just about being spontaneous, rebelling against planning ahead or going several times a week. It is about being shut out during the premium times (because we have to wait until we are very very close to the date and then they are blocking passholders) or getting to use about 5 reservations in a whole year. At $1,299 for an incredi-pass plus 6.5% sales tax, that's $297.99 per admission! That's about three times what the daily ticket pays.

Disney has been told all of this. They fixed the problem of the 3 reservation limit for passholders and not being able to reserve enough park admissions to cover an on-site stay. They fixed that. But, for off-site guests -- they are not interested in fixing anything. Nothing whatsoever.

So, right now I'm a passholder -- sort of. I have a voucher. I have not activated it. I am sitting on the sidelines with the acute knowledge that the current Disney administration holds me in the highest esteem -- just above whale poop. I've been a passholder for many years. I've been a Disney fan must longer. I had a blue Cinderella dress shortly after the original Disney Cinderella film was released. My BIL went to Disneyland a few days after the original opening. I watched Mouseketeer Club in black and white TV with the original cast. We argued whether to watch Disney's Wonderful World of Color or the Jetsons in the early 1960s when Walt himself opened the show. I remember his voice. I remember walking through the construction when California Adventure was being built to get to the gates. I honeymooned at Disney World in the Polynesian before it was DVC. My family had plans to spend Y2K at Disney World, but family events happened. I retired to be near Disney World. Right now I am waiting. To see if things change -- crowds, litigation, Chapek etc. But, Disney intentionally sidelined me. It was vicious. They assumed I would not pay a fair admission. Well, tell me what it is. So, the only remedy on the table right now for me to to either move away and focus on other venues or pay the darn Incredi-***, buy the annual pass I want and buy extra tickets for all the important days. I've even considered buying DVC.

I thought it is only 3, 4 or 5 passes could be held at a time, not for the whole year. I’m pretty sure I’ve made more than 3 park reservations the past year on my PDAP. Now if staying off-site I am not likely to book more than a 2-3 night stay as I don’t want to risk traveling there and being shut out.

Booking months and months in advance of busy holidays and using your 3-5 days of reservations seems to be unnecessary. Even on my lowly Pixie Dust AP they don’t seem to sell out of any particular park until a couple weeks ahead.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

No reservations available is not the same thing as no blackout dates.

It wasn't really that. It was that multi-day tickets could still get in on that day with park reservations. And Disney at any point in time was able to manipulate how many reservations were available in each bucket. None of that was disclosed.

I think in past threads on this subject there were a variety of answers given but for the purposes of the discussion limiting the number of no-blackout date APs would not have corrected the issue. That would still be a gamble on Disney's part that on any one day banking on a certain number of no-blackout date APs were not going to want a reservation, which in theory sounds ok, but it only takes one too many for suddenly there to be issues. And this lawsuit is purely based on 1 person's experience being expanded for other hypothetical AP holders out there.

The real issue started cropping up with park reservations and with that came separate buckets and with that came Disney's ability to move around availability as they saw fit adding to AP bucket when they wanted to (which they did suspiciously right after the lawsuit was filed) or take from it, adjusting the bucket of hotel guests or park ticket bucket.

I think in past threads some of what would have alleviated would have been disclosure of bucket availability and how it works (unlikely Disney would disclose this), no selling of a no-blackout AP (seemed to be the favored approach and was the one I felt would have been easier), no APs period (seemed to also be a favored approach and was one I felt would have been workable too).

I was overhearing a couple talking to her friends in the FOP queue raving about WDW APs and normally I tended to keep to myself but I had to mention saying "they aren't selling them right now with no indication they will be restarted" because if you're going to give a spiel of how great the APs are you'll want to make sure people understand that point. This person had bought them before they paused back in September?? something like that.

Yet somehow somebody took this idea the wrong way, and thought “hey, we could make more money if we just shrink the AP bucket.”

The bucket wasn't shrunk like you think. The park reservation system is a fluid situation such that Disney can add and remove at will. It's not that its inherently a bad thing I mean it can favor one or more parties depending on what happens. It could be that they see less park reservations from other ticket media and shift some availability over to APs and then they can do the opposite. But having an AP with a no-blackout contradicts that fluid system. No one knows right now the end result but at least a judge found it had enough merit to go to a trial rather than be immediately dismissed. In the end IMO a no-blackout was a risky move from the beginning and likely not completely thought out with. It's not as much an issue over at WDW because there are far fewer APs in comparison to DL.

 

[randumb0]

I have said this before. With the next recession Disney will be begging for visits from passholders. They added the monthly payment option during a recession

 

[sheilafri]

Then you probably were not watching the holiday calendars last year. The unavailability was showing up farther in advance than that.

My examples were about getting guaranteed dates having only the 3, 4 or 5 reservations to work with when there is no on-site resort length-of-stay planning advantage.
I would probably guess your comment about 2-3 night stay if traveling or being shut out is a hypothesis because you do travel. So, it is probable, you stay in resort property and have not experienced the local reservation limit problems. It is a problem. It is not a little problem. Disney refuses to address any of it because it is their intention to "get the right mix." The sordid fact is Incredi-pass locals are going to also need tickets.

Yes. I don’t go during the holidays so really wasn’t checking that. The closest is watching late May around Memorial Day. Also, having the Pixie Dust I’m not going on super crowded days and am blocked out of holidays, anyway. I was initially confused thinking that you were saying that you can only have 3-5 reservations per year. If you’re booking that far ahead and not rolling them over, then it is very limiting.
We probably agree that we hate the park reservation requirements.

 

[LSUmiss]

And that’s what the lawsuit will decide.

Exactly.

 

[Jrb1979]

And that’s what the lawsuit will decide.

In the end I think it gets thrown out.

 

[john7994]

But, Disney intentionally sidelined me. It was vicious. They assumed I would not pay a fair admission. Well, tell me what it is. So, the only remedy on the table right now for me to to either move away and focus on other venues or pay the darn Incredi-***, buy the annual pass I want and buy extra tickets for all the important days. I've even considered buying DVC.

Glad I hung on to the end, it was Close! Explains a lot....

 

[LSUmiss]

In the end I think it gets thrown out.

Doubtful as a Disney has already requested this & a judge said no.

 

[Disneychick13]

In general I think most of the lawsuits against Disney have seemed ridiculous. This one has teeth. If you buy a “no blackout” AP and then are “blacked out”…. I mean I know people say “you know what you bought/that the reservation system existed” but, in the beginning at least, I’m sure most people didn’t take that to mean how limited the bucket for AP reservations would be (In Disneyland I’m talking about).
For Disney world it’s not that drastic, but I have definitely been unable to go on a date I wanted to go spontaneously that was not a black out day for me. Not to any park. Not with constant checking and refreshing. And I get that well too bad you knew what you bought, but not being able to go to any park on a date you are not blacked out on sucks. And the previous poster that mentioned going on a holiday is completely correct. If you wait too long to make the reservation, you run the risk of getting blocked out. If you make a reservation for a very popular time, like Christmas/Easter, then too bad so sad you just can’t go before that. Because you don’t have enough days to reserve.
I mean I want the AP’s to stay and I hope they get rid of the reservation system. Simple as that. Disney is just wrong in this situation and I’m pretty sure they know it.

 

[john7994]

In general I think most of the lawsuits against Disney have seemed ridiculous. This one has teeth. If you buy a “no blackout” AP and then are “blacked out”…. I mean I know people say “you know what you bought/that the reservation system existed” but, in the beginning at least, I’m sure most people didn’t take that to mean how limited the bucket for AP reservations would be (In Disneyland I’m talking about).
For Disney world it’s not that drastic, but I have definitely been unable to go on a date I wanted to go spontaneously that was not a black out day for me. Not to any park. Not with constant checking and refreshing. And I get that well too bad you knew what you bought, but not being able to go to any park on a date you are not blacked out on sucks. And the previous poster that mentioned going on a holiday is completely correct. If you wait too long to make the reservation, you run the risk of getting blocked out. If you make a reservation for a very popular time, like Christmas/Easter, then too bad so sad you just can’t go before that. Because you don’t have enough days to reserve.
I mean I want the AP’s to stay and I hope they get rid of the reservation system. Simple as that. Disney is just wrong in this situation and I’m pretty sure they know it.

As one of those people that say "you know what you bought/renewed when the park reservation system existed" Let's be clear, I get that the Park Reservation system makes the AP benefit less lucrative now than it was in the past, especially for spontaneous visits on short notice and those that are local. I also get that the transition in the beginning also sucked. I don't think Disney on implementation could have allowed AP holders to just reserve whatever they wanted for how many days they wanted throughout the year (whether they went or not) - in the same way they couldn't grant immunity from reservations subverting the whole system altogether.

I live in Georgia (within 7 hours of WDW), and I can't buy an AP even if I wanted. I am forced to buy park tickets all the time. I can't just pop down there for the day, and I am forced to also find accommodations at least for one night or two (being a DVC owner doesn't exactly guarantee a reservation either). I wanted to celebrate my July birthday by being in the Magic Kingdom for the 4th, but according to the reservation system - it's already closed out. So I guess I should have bought tickets and reserved it sooner. Its not like I am being treated any better over locals - it still costs me (more) money. From Disney's perspective, why would they open APs to me - when I am already paying for daily tickets and a captive audience for a day or two.

I don't like these policies, and I am not uncaring about other cohorts like locals. but it is what it is. COVID provided the right cover to keep the reservation system in place because non-locals are more lucrative to the bottom line. This is not new news either by the way. As had been said before - Disney is not shy about this fact. It also gave them the cover to analyze the AP system in general.

All that being said, I know this before I make my vacation decisions - in the end - it's on me.